OT: Which is broken?! (computer part)
 

Ok, I've been thinking about my broken computer for almost 3 months, and I'm still not sure which part is actually broken.

To set this up, here are my specs:
MSI 845 Ultra ARU mobo
1.8 Pentium 4 Northwood
Leadtek GF 4 Ti 4400
Creative SB Audigy 1 Platinum
1 gig of DDR
Plextor CDRW
Toshiba (?) DVDROM
Generic floppy
Generic 100/10 ethernet card
80 gig ATA drive (7200 RPM)
2 x 2 gig ATA drives on an on-board Promise RAID controller

This setup ran fine for a long time, no problems. However, at the end of Last semester, it started going wonky at bootup (random stops during POST or whatever). After I brought it home, it lived for about 2 weeks and then finally bought the farm (when I press the case power button, all the system fans spin up, but no beep, and no display on the screen). Mind you this computer is only about 2 years old at the most, so I'm kinda miffed. Now, I've checked the video card (swapped in a PCI card), removed all unneccessary parts (still won't boot), checked the powersupply (on another computer and with voltmeter), the RAM is good (less than 6 months old). I've pretty much narrowed it down to CPU or mobo.

Is there any way to tell which is broken? I don't have a known good mobo or CPU to try, so that's hampered me (this machine I'm using right now is a "slocket" P3).

Arg... any thoughts?

Re: OT: Which is broken?! (computer part)
 

My bet would be HARD DRIVE. That or MB is bad. Could even be a heat issue. Good luck Instar in figuring it out.

Re: OT: Which is broken?! (computer part)
 

I don't think its the hard drive, the POST quits before it even goes to the HD for something to boot from. It can't be heat (I've got 3 case fans, and I've tried booting with side panel off).

Re: OT: Which is broken?! (computer part)
 

If it doesn't even give the 'I'm awake' beep that comes at the end of POST then it's either the CPU or the Mobo itself. You'll need spares to swap things around and figure out which it is.

Re: OT: Which is broken?! (computer part)
 

A working computer should POST without a hard drive. Pull out the drive and if it still won't POST then the HDDrv isn't the only problem.

Unless one component is under warranty, I've rarely replaced motherBoards and processors separately. Except when my place of employment has many space processors lying around for testing.

Buy new both. You wanted to upgrade anyway, didn't you?

You know you did.

Don't you deserve it?

Re: OT: Which is broken?! (computer part)
 

I hate to say it, but it could be your video card.

Re: OT: Which is broken?! (computer part)
 

I've had plenty of MoBo's giving beeps without a CPU or with the CPU placed the wrong way( 486sx and it did work when I turned it 90 degrees, didn't know it was possible to put it wrong!)

So my guess is atleast the MoBo..

As you've tried it with another graphic card as you've stated, I don't think it's the video card AT!

Re: OT: Which is broken?! (computer part)
 

Fans spin and no drive activity or post activity is usually RAM. Pull the drives and do a hard reset on the CMOS. Then try to boot it from a floppy. If it still just sits there, then try a stick of ram.

Re: OT: Which is broken?! (computer part)
 

I have a deep distrust in MSI mobos... As Ruatha has mentioned, no beeps at all is the bad sign hinting for a dead mobo.

First check: fans spinning? -> power supply ok, no shortcircuit on mobo (or stuck reset key, I had this one once too), fine.

Second: the mobo should do a number of beeps while checking the most basic things like cpu, memory, video card. In this case, number of beeps gives you the damaged part.
(Unless its an modern EPOX mainboard, which have a 2-digit display onboard displaying in hex the status while booting up, thus giving a hex code for the error at the point of failure. What luxury - I have come to hate counting numerous too-short beeps and probably even riddling about if it has been a long or short beep. Guess what Boards I currently prefer http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif )

If no beeps at all (speaker properly connected?) -> mobo does not even start properly with its BIOS. To make sure remove everything including RAM and CPU, try again. No beeps -> trash the mobo. You could try resuscitation, exert some moderate pressure on various parts of the mobo, especially on all socketed components, loosen the screws a bit - maybe its a hairline crack that fixes itself (hopefully for some time). But thats extreme luck if it should work.

Re: OT: Which is broken?! (computer part)
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">It depends on the make of the bios software. That board should have an AMI bios. Bad or wrong ram = no beeps.

Other than the old swap it out testing, there is a device called a Post Card that will let you run AMI's CheckPoint software.

Re: OT: Which is broken?! (computer part)
 

Also, if you have more than one stick, try them individually.
If it works with just one, then at least you know nothing else is broken besides either the second stick of RAM or the connector.

Re: OT: Which is broken?! (computer part)
 

you and i have the same problem...

For me it is the cpu...

For you it could either be the cpu or the motherboard... i am leaning cpu...

i am hampered as well.... as i need to get it running but i will need to get a new cpu, mobo and memory... i replaced power and video card.

no errors in os...

no errors written to post logs

Some times it will run for 2 weeks

some times it will run 1 minute freeze and will not let me back in for a week...

Checked for heat problems as well... 3 fans plus 3 fans on the video card, sound card and one cpu fan...

From researching this most people tend to replace the cpu and motherboard at the same time... if they are old .


my mobo is intel with a p4 2 gig on it ....

Re: OT: Which is broken?! (computer part)
 

Well, uh, I tried messing around with different parts today. I removed everything but the RAM, CPU, mobo, PSU, and DVD ROM (I was planning to boot off of a dynebolic linux CD) but when I powered up, I heard something not so good. An loud pop sound occurred, and I cut the power in a heartbeat. I think the mobo just bit the big one.
I did at one point (a while back) removing one of the sticks of RAM (and swapped them), but still no POST or even beep code. New parts will be here Thursday (ordered off of NewEgg with 2 day Fedex):
Aspire 520W PSU (black housing, 3 fans, and blue LEDs!)
AOpen AX4C Max II mobo
eVGA GF 6800
1 gig DDR 400
74 gig WD Raptor 10000 RPM SATA
Yeah, it should be sweet once I re-use my old 80 gig drive and optical drives along with the old SoundBLaster.

Re: OT: Which is broken?! (computer part)
 

I knew you wanted to upgrade. We all do.

Especially with Doom 3 already available in some stores.

[ August 04, 2004, 00:28: Message edited by: Loser ]

Re: OT: Which is broken?! (computer part)
 

I have to go with the RAM theory (and it is the cheapest to test).
Not so sure. I just took the RAM out of a system and still got beep code.
I think I have to go with the processor issue. I doubt it is the temp as it is cool at time of boot. Try removing the chip and replacing it

[ August 03, 2004, 12:53: Message edited by: Gryphin ]

Re: OT: Which is broken?! (computer part)
 

take it in to your nearest frenly computer retailer. mine checks them for free http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif
actualy they fell overthemselfs to help, I guess that could be cause it was a fairly hot piece of HW and they want me to buy from them next time http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: OT: Which is broken?! (computer part)
 

yea it has been frustrating at home with the computer problems...

i miss irc...

i am late with turns and well it just sucks


nov will be here soon... then i upgrade

Re: OT: Which is broken?! (computer part)
 

i spent 5 yearzs working on computrers in my own shop

what i would have suggested would be to jumper the motherboard power supply connector (while not connected to your motherboard ) and thenm to verify the correct voltage of each of the wires as usually the symptoms you have described have proven in my experience to be a weak powersupply usually meaning something was about to go out
not being a electrical tech (my father was the one who did that he fixed monitors and powersupplies at the component level) i usually turned it over to him however learning basics from him i have discovered that a power supply can provide power but as it ages its ability to provide the correct wattage diminishes then usually a capacitor in the powwer supply goes out and it wont start up again

classic symptoms of a power supply with this problem
computer will get to post but will not finish just quits
disconnecting power to one or more drives (usually cdrom or extra harddrives ) will reduce the load enough to permit booting
eventually the power supply will quit entirely usually quietly
sometimes with a pop (a capacitor blows its top most times )


ps the day they make a capacitor that can Last more than 20 years in continous on off usage we might actually have a shot at making outstanding quality electronics