SE 4 Gold
 

Lookin for people interested in starting a multiplayer game. I can host but, I am dial-up. If anyone with broadband wants to host i am agreeable, as long as they can meet set play times.

Re: SE 4 Gold
 

If you are looking for a ply-by-email-game try http://seiv.pbw.cc

Re: SE 4 Gold
 

I went to that site and regesterd, but when i try to sign in nothing happens. Are they still operational ?

Re: SE 4 Gold
 

They are still in business. I think you have the cookies coming from this site blocked. For questions on PBW please post directly in this forum: http://www.shrapnelgames.com/cgi-bin...ubb=forum;f=23

Re: SE 4 Gold
 

That could be the problem. I have had trouble with cookie management before. Seems when i want one it won't let it in, and the ones i don't want do get in http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon8.gif

Re: SE 4 Gold
 

Remember me:
ICQ#170111760
My nikname "Max_Frei" on www.seiv.pbw.cc

I am ready for all game`s.

Re: SE 4 Gold
 

Where can I find SE IV? I'm a long time 4X player and I'm really really tired of infogames. One to many 100,000 ship fleets appearing out of nowhere to clean my case. Or a conscript warrior with one red bar fighting off my Elite Panzer army. I read that SE IV doesn't have a micky mouse, low life, pond scum sucking, cheatin excuse for an AI. I was immediatly interested, only to find out that the boat left the dock quite q while back. I tried E-Bay, but that was a mess. So now I'm cruising Yard sales that advertise computer games. Anyone know where there is a copy WITH A MANUAL? I'll go up to full retail price.

Re: SE 4 Gold
 

This is totally not the right thread for this question, but...

The game is being sold by Strategy First. I would strongly recommend that you do NOT purchase the download version, but rather the boxed version.

http://www.strategyfirst.com/en/games/SE4DEluxe/

Also, once you get the game, look for the TDM mod for highly tweaked AIs.

Re: SE 4 Gold
 

I spent about 45 minutes looking for such a thread before giving up in disgust. Strategy First was a flop and the first place I tried. The order process goes into a fatal loop. I could not add the pkg to the cart to pay for it. Neither the box version or the DL version. You select the game vesrion and the code sends yo to the cart, which shows as empty. When you try to examine the cart, it sends you back to the shopping screen. No matter which options are selected.
Thank you for at least responding.

Re: SE 4 Gold
 

Err... when I clicked on buy boxed game, I get taken directly to the shopping cart screen with all the costs laid out...?

Re: SE 4 Gold
 

Ok, I'll try again, but that isn't what happens with me. My cokkies are enabled, but only local and short term.

Re: SE 4 Gold
 

Thanks Capt', that time it worked. I figure by monday or tuesday, it will be here. I'm so excited my toes are curling.

Re: SE 4 Gold
 

While you are waiting, you should download the updates, mods and expansions.

1.95 patch:
http://malfador.com/se4dwngp.html

The imagemod:
http://imagemodserver.mine.nu/other/MM/SE4/imagemod/

And any mods that strike your fancy.
I reccommend my own, Carrier Battles mod http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif
http://imagemodserver.mine.nu/other/...arrierBattles/

Re: SE 4 Gold
 

Updates yes, mods no. I'm not much on modding. I'll play for a year or so and then once I have the basics down, I'll try to find a fill in slot in an on-line (PBW?) game. I'm retired and have the time, so it would be a nice hobby. Brsides, the mods I've looked at seem like something from a Buck Rogers re-run. The Movie not the series. There is absolutly no need for aerodynamics in space, so a real spaceship will look more like a box girder bridge then 'spaceship'. Why go thru the cost and manufacturing problems to provide air-tight envitonments where they aren't needed? Curved surfaces cost more to design, manufacture and asssemble, not to mention, they are radar reflectors.
A spaceship most likly will be a main spar with the engines on one end to form a thrust axis and Modules with everything else attached to that spar. More like a tinker toy project then something from Star Trek. It is quicker, easier and cheaper to build a little box to put equipment in that needs atmosphere to function then to put that equipment inside an airtight 'hull' and pressurize it.

The reason why I want IV instead of waiting a few months for V is the patches. IV is a 'mature' game with the bugs worked out and the quirks know. V will have to go thru that process without me.

Re: SE 4 Gold
 

None of the mods I have seen look anything like a Buck Rogers universe. What does the talk about how space ships look have to do with mods? Unless maybe you are confusing shipsets with mods?

If you think about it, why would advanced star-faring nations make ugly, purely functional ships? You don't inspire much fear or awe when your ship looks like it is just cobbled together. Further, the added cost of curved surfaces vs. boxy ones would be fairly trivial compared to all the high tech systems inside. I don't think it is reasonable to assume that real spaceships (at the point when we can travel to distant stars quickly and form 100s of planet empires, not in the very near future where it costs a considerable portion of GNP to just get a few spaceships running) will look like box girders or just be modules strapped to a spar.

And besides, there are a ton of SE4 shipsets that have no thought given to aerodynamics, only to aesthetics. But don't take my word for it, have a look for yourself.

There are some shipsets that look like your model of a spaceship though. 2001, for example.

Re: SE 4 Gold
 

Prolly I am. I was looking for patches and ran across a bunch of stuff that was called mods and consisted of new sets of Icons for various ship types.
I have thought about it. What is the point of building something esthetic that will never be "seen" except by radar or infared? You install all the fear and awe you want, I'm going to blow stuff up and kill things.
As far as cost goes; Nervos belli, pecuniam infinitam.
2 ships with the exact same performance and weapons, only yours is 'pretty', or scary ( to you, I doubt that your opponent gives a hoot. I KNOW the Computer doesn't), while mine is cheap and ugly. So your's cost 10K whatevers and mine costs 8K. So for 100K units, you get 10 and I get 12.
Like Uncle Joe said "Quanity has a quality of it's own"
Example; In WW2 the best US Figter was the P-51. What made it the best was that 14,819 were built in 4 1/2 years. The P-47 and F4U had better performance then the P-51, but they were more expensive to build (P-47) and took longer (F4U).
Technology changes, people don't. An engineer of 200 years in the future is going to look for the best solution, just like an engineer of today or 200 years ago.

Re: SE 4 Gold
 

25% cost hike? Yikes. I doubt it would be anywhere near that significant just to make it more shapely... Maybe 2.5%.

Re: SE 4 Gold
 

closer to the original subject
of mods vs shipsets

in spaceempires mods are actually more used as a way of changing the physics of the universe and adding components
specifically space empires basic uses non newtonian propulsion wheras most mods attempt to add some measure of newtonian physics to spaceship movement
and almost all mods add componernts for ship design like new and different weapons different armors different engines
some are designed to allow simulation of specific mass media environments
an example the starwars rebellion mod is designed to add components ship hulls movement and weapons that simulate the star wars universe

wheras shipsets/races are a set of pictures and sometimes also behavior control files (a.i and minister)to add flavor to the playing experience as such the race/shipsets have almost no impact on game mechanics (exceptpossibly in the mind of the player)

mods range from as little impact as fqm deluxe (allows the generation of larger more populous maps with more realistic terrain features)
to star wars rebellion
to a full change like space food empires or backyard wars (the toys will own your yard !!!!!)

so in actuallity you might try a few mods
the suggested basic mods are fqm deluxe and the image mod (adds additional images for use by other mods )
many people who play single player believe the game's a.i. to be easy to beat so one masterful designer created the TDM mod to add further smarts to the ai and make single player games more challenging

as such you might discover some of these more basic mods could add a bit more challenge to your single player games

Re: SE 4 Gold
 

This was scary, sort of.
Either you have zero understanding of 4X games or SEIV will end up being another box on the shelf where I keep bogus games. I hope not.
Let me try once to explain. The actual percentage is meaningless. All it (the percentage) does is affect the time factor (t) in the equation.
If you own a widget shop, and I own a widget shop across the street and I have ANY sort of efficeny advantage over you while all other factors are equal, you have a chapter 11 in your future. The difference between 2.5 percent and 25 percent is the time it takes to achieve dominance.
If the game doesn't relect this then It is worth the hard drive space it will take up.
I got the game Saturday and I'll load it tommorrow, so we will see.

Re: SE 4 Gold
 

So the Mod thingy allows players to play god and design a universe run by their own laws of Physics, if I got it right. Does that include the Laws of Economics and Politics as well?
I mean 4X is called 4X for a reason. Physics applies to eXplore and eXterminate mostly, but eXpand is mainly the Economic portion and eXploit is the Political aspect of a 4X game. Not that there is a distinct line between the seperate functions.
While the Laws of Economics and Politics are not as well explored as the Laws of Physics, they are just as immutable.
Any way, I got the CD and I'll start on this tommorrow and I'll know by the weekend.
In 1899 the director of the US patent office recommended shutting dwon the Patent office because everything that could be invented already had been and no new inventions were possible.

Re: SE 4 Gold
 

A 25% advantage is unbeatable.

A 2.5% advantage can be overcome by tactics, strategy and even some luck.


PS:
Charging more for aesthetics is a very lame idea. Looks are completely irrelevant.

Re: SE 4 Gold
 

Modding allows one to change many aspects of the game, from what facilites do, to the components you can use, to the types of planets and systems on the map. Check out Data folder.

=0=

2.5% isn't even a strategically relevant advantage. Resource production being equal, that means you can support 102 ships for every 100 (of the exact same tech level and configuration) that the enemy can. If that is all that is determining victory, there is not much of a game at hand.

I'd love to see the business that goes into bankruptcy for no reason other than a 2.5% cost of production disadvantage against its competitors... such a trivial difference is easily overcome by other factors, such as brand, functionality, and marketing (marketing is the bulk of business success in the first place).

Re: SE 4 Gold
 

For an Empirical Example, see the attachment.

Consider the following:
- This is early endgame, with max-tech, but plenty of old ships still around.
- The blue-grey Pandorans had 400 ships and carriers.
- The yellow Nausea Heap had 300 ships and carriers.
- The two forces started at point blank range, with lots of fringe placement.
- The Pandorans got the first shot.
- The pandorans lost more ships, and averaged about 65% damage on their surviving ships.
- The heap lost a couple ships, and averaged about 65% damage on their survivors too.


Pandorans had:
- A 30% numbers advantage.
- First shot from point blank.

The Heap had:
- Slightly better strategies.
- Position (attacked in a pincer move, pinning the Pandorans in a small area near the warppoint)
- Better fighter deployment (smaller stacks - 5 vs 15)
- Transports with spare fighters to restock the carriers.
- Supply tankers to restock the missile ships.

If the Pandorans had only a 2.5% numbers advantage, they would have been wiped out already.
Instead, with a 30% advantage, they have just had half their navy taken out of commission.


The "Schooling":
Nature's way of reminding you that a 25% advantage is not unbeatable.

Re: SE 4 Gold
 

One battle does not a war make.
I am picking up the recommended patchs and will start soon on learning the game. 4X games are mostly economic. I see youse guys are all focusing on the shooting part. In any 4X game I've ever tried, the less shooting , the better. War is wastefull and to be avoided whenever possible. If you had used your 2.5% advantage over the course of the whole game, it would have been 4,000 to 300. Ever hear the term "Compound Interest"? The Main reason I'm ditching MOO3 is that if you build your empire thru skullduggery, deceit and bribery, as an empire should be built, the Program drops as many ships as needed on you to destroy your empire.
You are looking at the trees and not seeing the forest.

Re: SE 4 Gold
 

Yes. How, exactly, does this 2.5% advantage make use of that mechanic? 2.5% cheaper ships translates directly to 2.5% more ships for the same cost. I don't have the slightest clue how this advantage might compound without being used in combat, so when the first battles happen it will still be a mere 2.5%. SJ has posted proof that even a 30% advantage can be overcome by other factors, at least in his mod, and I sincerely doubt any real-world historical battle was decided by a numerical advantage that small. Yes, if everything else is exactly equal, then that 2.5% difference may decide the victor. The odds of that ever actually happening are so tiny as to be practically nonexistent.

I agree with you that MoO3 is a bad game. Your opinion of how an empire "should" be built, however, is just that - an opinion. An empire forged through deceit, political maneuvering, etc. WILL eventually have to back it up with force unless its maneuvering and deceit is truly SPECTACULARLY well done, preferably accompanied by copious amounts of luck.

Re: SE 4 Gold
 

You are aware that you pay maintenance on ships? And that 2.5% cost difference never provides any build time difference (simply remove a cheap component and add it in retrofit while training the ship if you can save an entire turn by it)?

Re: SE 4 Gold
 

You are seeing that 2.5% as only applying to ships. Think of it as a production efficency that can be transferred to any part of the system. You can transfer it to research, non-ship production, what ever you feel will give you the greatest advantage. I'm not far enough into this particular game to check that yet, but if you cannot switch resources between needs, then this will be the first 4X game I have ever seen that didn't allow that. It is such a fundamental point that the whole game would be bogus if it wasn't allowed. It seems as if the number a ships that can be built is limited within a time slice by the number of shipyards. So if that 2.5 percent was used to build more shipyards then you would end up being able to build more ships over a given period of time. Compounding interest was an anology and an example NOT an event. I used it in an attempt to illustrate how a small advantage can be leveraged into a huge advantage over time.
The whole thing is a SYSTEM; imput->processing->output.
I also think my 25% was a LOT closer to correct then 2.5%. the Saving in Hull metal alone would be on the order of 3.141 times the radius squared, over a given length. Note, I have switched back to the real world. So on bigger ships the savings would be several hundreds of times. So for any given ship size you could produce several dozen (prehaps humdreda) open ships to each hulled ship using the same amount of metal. The cost savings wouldn't be as much for all the other bits, but they wouldn't cost more either, or at least not much more for those parts that required atmosphere.

Re: SE 4 Gold
 

You, sir, are going to be schooled if you ever play against humans on PBW.

Theory is one thing, but as we are trying to tell you, empirical evidence is overwhelmingly against you.
As in real life, superior forces can and do get overcome by better generals with smaller armies.

Re: SE 4 Gold
 

You can certainly scrap and replace facilities to your heart's content.

=0=

I'm not sure what you mean by an "open" ship. Having no hull whatsoever? Just a bunch of components loosely cabled together, like a modern day space probe or satellite? Why would anyone build warships like that, rather than having an armored, protective hull? To me, it sounds like a bad idea to make such a spindly ship and have no protective armoring at all, taking only one hit to blow the whole thing up (or at least, in half, making useless wrecks)... Why do you assume that the presence of an armored hull is wasting material? It is making your ship capable of sustaining damage, thus making the ship worthwhile to build. I'd rather have 50 ships that can take more than half a hit from weapons fire without blowing up than 200 ships that fall apart at the first hint of weapons fire.

Re: SE 4 Gold
 

As for your system, you're forgetting about maintenance.
Having a 2.5% advantage means that you can maintain only 2.5% more ships. You can replace losses slightly faster too, but those values are insignificant compared to tactics and strategies and terrain.

If you spend resources building BSYs, then you'll have less available to build and maintain ships. Bases cost maintenance too.
In some mods, BSYs are important. But you still have to balance your Yard investments with expansion and defense.

You will learn these lessons if you play against the experts.

***c_of_red said:
One battle does not a war make.***
In that particular case, I'd say one battle doth a war break. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif
With half our respective navies now crippled, neither of us could scrape together enough ships to breach the other's warppoint fortifications. At least not for a year or two, and without leaving other areas of the empire dangerously unprotected. Once we've had time to regroup, things may heat up again.




PS:
It sounds like you might want to write yourself up a super-gritty-tech mod, in which armor and shields are absurdly expensive, and naked ships are the norm.

However, such a mod would make strategy and tactics even MORE important, since the first shot wins.