Difference between PBEM and TCP/IP
 

What is the difference between play-by-email and TCP/IP? Is it the same thing?

Re: Difference between PBEM and TCP/IP
 

No, if we had tcp/ip, you would not have to send all the files from the client-sever, server-client. You would connect to the server, play your turn, and then the next turn would happen. No worry of sending files back and forth.

Re: Difference between PBEM and TCP/IP
 

In IP games, one player uses his computer as the server for the game, so all others connect to him after getting his IP address.
After that it`s pretty much like hot seat playing. I like to play this way cause I can spare a few hours on a game and pbem is just way too slow.

Re: Difference between PBEM and TCP/IP
 

Thank you for the answers. Is TCP/IP something MM is working on, then?

Re: Difference between PBEM and TCP/IP
 

They better!

Re: Difference between PBEM and TCP/IP
 

Kimball,

TCP/IP means REAL TIME gaming. You could sit there at your PC and fight a battle in tactical mode with someone else on the other side of the country. You could spend an entire day gaming with a group of friends scattered all over the world without leaving home. Needless to say, there is a lot of interest in this. http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif But we've not been testing anything to do with TCP/IP so don't expect it "real soon" but rather "in a while". It's not going to be a simple thing to add.

Re: Difference between PBEM and TCP/IP
 

actually, any internet email is over IP. IP over everything.

*ducks*

Re: Difference between PBEM and TCP/IP
 

I shouldn't but I am going to say it anyway.

while TCP will allow 2 or more players to do tactical battles over the net, what do the other players during that time? The game will have to wait for the combat to be over no? So really the only gain with tcp is fighting battles in tactical mode. The game will still be delayed. The more battles the more the delay.

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Seawolf on the prowl

Re: Difference between PBEM and TCP/IP
 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Seawolf:
I shouldn't but I am going to say it anyway.

while TCP will allow 2 or more players to do tactical battles over the net, what do the other players during that time? The game will have to wait for the combat to be over no? So really the only gain with tcp is fighting battles in tactical mode. The game will still be delayed. The more battles the more the delay.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

thanks for crushing my dreams man, you are a big help. actually, the advanage of realtime IP play is psycological. even in a simu/no-tac game, if you plug everyone in and make them do their turns in real time, they will get done alot faster than if you do a 'PBEM' marathon. people tend to not send in their turns when they have to wory about dorking with the files and all, so things get delayed. if all they have to do is plug into the game and play, more gets done, and you dont have as many delays while people get destracted with other things.

even in IP, i will probably not play sequential and stick to simutanious / no tactical. I even think its more challenging putting together effective formations and orders for a fleet - anyone can command each ship to do the right thing.

Re: Difference between PBEM and TCP/IP
 

The only way complex turn based games like SE4 ever work at all with TCP/IP is if the other players get to do something interesting during the other player's turns. Set waypoints, change ship's orders, production queues, check intelligence or research, anything like that. If you just have to sit and stare at a blank screen for 20 minutes while other folks move, you go nuts.

I think that's why hotheat play always has such a big advantage. You can talk trash with your opponent while they move, or play cooperativly against the AI, watch what they're doing (if they agree), etc. It's a *social* thing. TCP/IP play in its current form is quite sterile in contrast.

Maybe if the add a cooperative play mode similar to the "Allied" play mode in Heroes of Might and Magic III it might help.

One thing is certain, unless they think it out carefully, be creative and come up with something for your brain to occupy itself with while others are moving, TCP/IP play will not be the great thing we are all anticipating. Just my 2 cents on this.

Re: Difference between PBEM and TCP/IP
 

What I want in IP play is the ability to "chat." Nothing upen-ended, but in my PBEM game, I have contact with another empire. It would be great to actually carry on a conversation regarding politics...

Re: Difference between PBEM and TCP/IP
 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by greghacke:
What I want in IP play is the ability to "chat." Nothing upen-ended, but in my PBEM game, I have contact with another empire. It would be great to actually carry on a conversation regarding politics...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

does anyone actually limit their chatter in PBEM to the communications screen and 'general Messages?' I sure dont. as soon as i have contact with them, im either talking to them over email, or ICQ, or calling them up to say "you'r warp point generators are in violation of the stellar maniplation treaties and mutual dissarmament agreement, please remove them before you get violated back to the stone-age."

Re: Difference between PBEM and TCP/IP
 

I try to keep my conversations in-game. Right now, my partner in treaty is in Germany. Not someplace I can call readily...

Re: Difference between PBEM and TCP/IP
 

I guess it would also be useful to send a global chat message to either ask why it is taking someone so long to finish their turn.

That and a courteous player might want to warn the other players that he/she is going to step away from the keyboard for a bit.

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--
"What do -you- want?" "I'd like to live -just- long enough
to be there when they cut off your head and stick it on a
pike as a warning to the next ten generations that some favors
come with too high a price. I would look up into your lifeless
eyes and wave like this..." *waggle* "...can you and your
associates arrange that for me, Mr. Morden?"

Re: Difference between PBEM and TCP/IP
 

Age of Wonders has a pretty good way of solving this. Ingame chat is a godssend during tactical combat in that game. If the other players are talkative of course. The most boring AoW games I ever played where ones in which the other players where mutes. Felt like playing the AI and that's not why I play multiplayer. It all comes down to finding the right crowd to play with which usually goes pretty quick in my experience.

Re: Difference between PBEM and TCP/IP
 

Well, i do hope they start getting to work on it soon..its very important..email is the dark ages. I want to be able to play this with my comrades..not fiddle with an AI..an AI is just a learning tool to get up to speed before playing a human.

I do hope they dont put it off to long..MM sent a note to me saying they were working on it soon..if that means 6 months or something i would probably shelve game even though its fun, even with a good AI..that lacks luster. AIs just will not recreate human intelect..not yet at least..so no need to push for it if its not really attainable..


but for TCP IP....smaller Groups playing will be workable..and as long as its "STABLE" the most key word..ill be happy..with all the games worts and all..because i will be playing my comrade.

The game is just a tool to play opponents..not beat up on a AI...big woopie
who cares how you beat up an AI, unless it cheats you should win a majority of the time.


i think the game is great..and feel free to TWeak away! make it better..make AI better..but without a truly stable TCP IP ability..its not going to meet potential..

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Waves his Red flag

Socialist

Re: Difference between PBEM and TCP/IP
 

Put it this way,

I have a comrade who has been my fighting buddy on tons of strategy , turn based games.
an excellent opponent. I told him about this game..that i had found..SE 4. He thinks it would be an excellent game..but will probably hold off..since we cant play each other till they bring it out TCPIP

Im very interested in playing him as soon as possible..and this format for our ongoing Feud :P would be perfect. I also have a second comrade who would probably play as well, but since he cant kick my butt without a way to connect..wont pick it up either..

im sure MM already knows that there are more than just me, with my comrades, who would see
TCP IP as a major selling point and way to expand their player base..and bottom line.

more sales..more upgrades..sad to say its still capitalism (bah). So without this handy dandy way of connecting..you got a lot of single player recluses out there..(phoey)
and a smaller base of players.


..remember.single player is only a way to learn game...playing a human is the only real competition..



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Waves his Red flag

Socialist

Re: Difference between PBEM and TCP/IP
 

Why not let the player who sets up an IP game to choose between letting combat be tactical or strategic only. I know that I would rather wait 5 extra minutes every turn and be able to move my ships rather than let AI screw up everything in combat.

Re: Difference between PBEM and TCP/IP
 

Imperishable:

EXACTLY! I've never understood it when games dont allow for tactical combat between players and state that its because 'No one would want to wait yadda yadda yadda'...NONSENSE!

In my experience, half of the fun of playing these games is arraying your fleets and tactics against those of your opponents. If the AI isnt capable of performing complex tactics and fleet cooperation (and it never will be) then its left to the players to provide that. When the game doesnt allow it, a HUGE chunk of the incentive to play multiplayer goes out the window.

I 100% agree. Let the PLAYERS decide if they want to 'waste their time' or not.

Talenn

Re: Difference between PBEM and TCP/IP
 

If MM makes TPC/IP, I hope they'll put in the abilities to:
1) Set a (player-negotiated) time limit / turn (which can be changed upon agreement), and
2) Watch other peoples' battles (CNN on steroids), and
3) Have an integral chat window, with public and private rooms (with option that private rooms are only available to players who've made contact in the game).

These abilities would relieve the boredom factor, increase the social aspect, and improve diplomacy. I might even use TCP/IP under these conditions.

Re: Difference between PBEM and TCP/IP
 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by dmm:
[b]
2) Watch other peoples' battles (CNN on steroids), and
B]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

if you could watch tac battles, you would have unfair access to the ship designs of other empires. even if you could just watch strategic battles, you would have unfair knowledge of fleet sizes and design strenght so far as you could see the kill ratios. even if you could see a military aly or partners battles, you are only supposed to see enemy designs, not their own.

the other ideas are good though.

Re: Difference between PBEM and TCP/IP
 

Puke, then make that to an option at setup. Simple. Lots of options and evrybody is happy. I can't understand why some game companies can't get that through their heads and give us players tons of options instead of just deciding "nobody wants that so skip it". Looks to me like MM is one of the (few) companies that believe in options so I think TCP/IP when it finally comes will make everybody happy. http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif