SEIV as OPEN SOURCE?
 

I don't know if this has been discussed before, but it definitely would be great for SEIV to be open source.
There are so many ideas around worth having in the game that it is just impossible for MM to get it all done alone. With a large community interested in the game there should be enough programmers to help building the game into the most exciting computer game experience ever.
As for MM's profits: MM (or shrapnel)could still sell the developer's kits and put together the official gaming Version. You would just buy the DevlpKit and then could do to the game whatever you liked enjoy the results for yourself or share it by sending them back to MM(who would of course make them available in their forum). You would not be any more entitled to give away the game to others...

How about it MM?

Re: SEIV as OPEN SOURCE?
 

I believe that Aaron is against this. He has said no before, and I see no reason why he would change his mind.
Myself, I think that open source is decent at times, however, it won't make money. Anybody could get the code and make a free Version of it.
And besides, its in Delphi, and all I know is C++!

Re: SEIV as OPEN SOURCE?
 

the game being in delphi is too bad. But why do people think open source would get "distributed" (pirated that is) any more freely than other software?

Re: SEIV as OPEN SOURCE?
 

The problem is that this isn't a good economic business model for a small company such as MM. They'd kill themselves IMO if they went the whole open source route.

However, many other games, notably all the Quake Games and Unreal Tournament have released source for a sizable portion of their game engines. Quake2 did this in the form of C language DLL source that you could modify and recompile. That way the core game and game technologies that they wanted to protect remained inaccessible and yet it allowed the mod community to do a whole lot more than just play around with some text file settings (flexible though they may be).

That's one way they could go but a game has to be designed for this approach from the start and SE4 probably is not.

It is something they could consider for the future though.

Re: SEIV as OPEN SOURCE?
 

The only game that I know of that has ever been released as "open source" was starseige Tribes. That was a big break for the modders out there, and they all produce some awsome mods. Voice packs, skins, mods, etc.

But in this case, SE IV, I would think that given the tight competition in this market, that would spell doom for MM. You know how people are, they would take someone elses idea, modify it, and thus claim to have a "new" code. Then MM would be SOL on the deal, and that just won't float.

Re: SEIV as OPEN SOURCE?
 

Descent's also open-source, and ditto with Hexen. Yes, Q1 too.

...with the caveat that id Software and other companies may open up the engine code (at least the parts they have copyright on), but generally don't relax licensing requirements for the data files.

StarOffice (well, now it's... OpenOffice, IIRC) was a full-blown commercial office suite, for multiple platforms, that got bought by Sun and opened up. But Sun, being huge, has far more revenue lines than Malfador and Shrapnel.

There are also interesting free clones of commercial games out there, like FreeCiv and so forth. And many darn good non-commercial games like Xconq. But for now, MM has better things to do...

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-- The thing that goes bump in the night

Re: SEIV as OPEN SOURCE?
 

Terrible idea.

Re: SEIV as OPEN SOURCE?
 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by jpinard:
Terrible idea.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Come on it's not that bad. Anyway you could be less cryptic.

Re: SEIV as OPEN SOURCE?
 

Releasing the source would really only hurt a company if they plan on liscening the engine to another company (reason that iD has not released the Q2! source). Just because you release the source, doesn't mean you have to give out the data files (all the .txt files, pictures, etc). I know that you can create your own, but thats the point. If someone is gonna pirate it, it won't matter if the game is open source or not.

My two cents.

Re: SEIV as OPEN SOURCE?
 

No way would I make it open source (if I were the developer). However, I would consider allowing a few eager enthusiasts to look at parts of the code under non-disclosure agreements so that I could make a better game and still have a life. I might even give them small rewards (mostly non-monetary) if I adopted one of their ideas. But I'm not the developer.

Re: SEIV as OPEN SOURCE?
 

I think you'll find that the only way to make money with Open Source software is to offer some sort of service along with it. This works with BUSINESS software since businesses need support with things like new file formats and hardware compatibility problems. Gamers are nearly identical with hackers and would gladly take the source and hack away for themselves rather than ask someone else for help. So, an open source game is basicaly a non-profit game. http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

You might be able to persuade him to release the source to SE II, though. It's long obsolete and the source was Visual Basic, not Delphi. So, it's probably got no real relation to SE III and IV.

Re: SEIV as OPEN SOURCE?
 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Atrocities:
The only game that I know of that has ever been released as "open source" was starseige Tribes. That was a big break for the modders out there, and they all produce some awsome mods. Voice packs, skins, mods, etc.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

ID released the source to it's older games (Wolfenstein and Doom, ad maybe even Quake 1). Not that I think Malfador should. Maybe the source to SEII or something. Releasing teh source to SEIV or can only hurt their sales.


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Regards,
KiloOhm

Re: SEIV as OPEN SOURCE?
 

O.K. you're probably right in that some guys would "take the source gladly and hack away with it". So what? That kind of guy gladly takes the CD of the game as it is and burns away with it, no? Plus: what exactly do you mean with "take"? I guess it would usually mean buy - not much would change.
My point is that you don't necessarily sell less copies just because you make something open source. There is a license coming with any open source program. And in this you could state that it is legal to change the code but that it is illegal to give the whole thing to a third party(whereas it should be legal to send the new code to some forum or to MM), much like it is legal to play the game right now, but illegal to make a copy and give it away to somebody. Again: there are always some people who will pirate software. I bet there are a lot of pirated copies of SE IV around right at the moment. I think there must be some way to do it without any loss to anybody. And the game definitely would gain.


[This message has been edited by Eisenhans (edited 12 January 2001).]

Re: SEIV as OPEN SOURCE?
 

I see open source as a noble thing for a company to do if they have dropped support for a popular game, including where they have dropped an eagerly awaited game before release (unless they had to pay somebody for a license to make that game, like Star Trek or B5). By "popular", I mean "has a dedicated group of fans willing & able to do something with it", which is not the same thing as large numbers of people who will buy new products (if those existed, the company probably wouldn't drop the game).

If they are not going to support the game anymore themselves, they are not losing money if somebody else does. This is especially true if they have dropped the entire genre (like the mass "flight" of the big companies from air combat sims). You could argue that really good "free" mods of an older game might "steal" sales from a new game in the same genre. I don't think so, but I can understand that concern. If they're not going to be in the genre at all anymore, though, I see no reason not to release the source code, or at least sell it cheap to a small outfit of fans willing & capable of carrying on with it. SSI has done something like this with its older wargames.

I can't see any commercial game still being supported being released as open source code, though. I can see enlisting the help of technically qualified fans who are willing to help as a labor of love (i.e. without payment or a share of the profits), if there are any such volunteers who will sign an appropriate non-disclosure agreement. This is really kind of like "beta testers plus". If any of them turn out to be really, really good, I might consider inviting them to become partners. That is a business decision - if their contribution grows the overall profit enough that my reduced % with the new split is more actual $ than before, taking on a new partner is a win-win. Don't forget this is a business. It is great to provide something people want, get paid for it and be doing something you enjoy all the while. You still have to make a living, though. That is what I would look at it, if I were running MM.

Re: SEIV as OPEN SOURCE?
 

What!? This isn't just a little bad peice of crappy shareware here. IT'S A GAME!!! A REAL GAME!!! All the modding things you need you get if you BUY THE GAME!!! It's a so called "open system". Like CFS, you can import almost anything you want from the internet and from you're mind into the game.
The easily editable .txt files allows you to do alot of things. The average user wouldn't need a developer kit to do what he like's. They made the game to make money. Theyspend hundreds of hours programming this, correcting bugs, listening to us when we go whining "I don't what that, I wan't that". What do they get? A thanks now and then. Well, if you want someone to say "Thank you" you go and help old ladies over a road crossing. The credit they'll get for spending all of these hours is the money this game will bring in. And I think that's going to be alot of money. That's what they get for spending hours infront of the computer. An you want to make it "open sorce". That's like if MM just throws the game away. NNNNNNNNNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!

Re: SEIV as OPEN SOURCE?
 

I believe making Space Empires open source could only make the game better. There are enough computer literate people out there that play the game to easily make it exactly what everyone wants (except me, I only know FORTRAN).

However, by making it open source, Aaron would be, in a sense, signing his own death warrant. There are plenty of unscrupulous and dishonest people in the gaming world that every space simulation game would inevitably become a Space Empires rip off.

The best thing for Aaron would be to listen to the players, give them what is possible, and keep the code to himself. Letting in a small handful of volunteer helpers may work, but there is always a possibility that one of them may get tempted by a rival company and sell out. I don't see that as probable, Space Empires fans seen to be pretty loyal, but the possiblitiy still exists.

Just my two cents.