Remote minning
 

In my Last game of SEIV I was experimenting with bases for remote minning.I built one battlestation on a gas giant world with two moons.The interesting thing that struct me by suprise is that newly built battlestation was minning all 3 bodies at the same time
(after I abandoned the tiny rock I used to build it).As all 3 of those was 100% average and I had 14 remote miners I (600) on BS it made a whooping 25.2K of minerals in a single turn making the BS pay for itself in 1-2 turns.

Re: Remote minning
 

You can remote mine planets? Cool!

Re: Remote minning
 

Sounds like a small Version of Cloud City from Star Wars...

Sorry - couldn't resist - I remember someone asking how a Cloud City could exist in SE4...

Re: Remote minning
 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by alasyr:
In my Last game of SEIV I was experimenting with bases for remote minning.I built one battlestation on a gas giant world with two moons.The interesting thing that struct me by suprise is that newly built battlestation was minning all 3 bodies at the same time
(after I abandoned the tiny rock I used to build it).As all 3 of those was 100% average and I had 14 remote miners I (600) on BS it made a whooping 25.2K of minerals in a single turn making the BS pay for itself in 1-2 turns. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yep, discovered this myself a little while ago. Very nice. A single ship/base can produce as much as a medium planet with a breathable atmosphere this way. I hope it's considered a 'feature' and not a bug. Wouldn't want to lose this nifty trick. But the AI has to learn how to use it...

Re: Remote minning
 

Now this is a really, really cool strategy. Thanks for passing it on!

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Compete in the Space Empires IV World Championship at www.twingalaxies.com.

Re: Remote minning
 

Yes this has been possible since the first demo. That is the Last time I used it however because if you don't turn off the depletion from mining the minerals on that group of planets are lost forever unlike colonizing it. It may give you more minerals for a short time but I would rather have a smaller amount that is always there. It may however be a good thing to do if you have a group of planets that you will use for research anyway.

[This message has been edited by Tomgs (edited 12 January 2001).]

Re: Remote minning
 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Tomgs:
....if you don't turn off the depletion from mining the minerals on that group of planets are lost forever unlike colonizing it.

[This message has been edited by Tomgs (edited 12 January 2001).][/b]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Are you referring to "finite resoureces" at game startup?

Re: Remote minning
 

No I mean remote mining will deplete resources even in a game without finite resources. Unless you turn off this option by modifing the settings.txt file to change from true to false the statement: remote mining decreases asteroid value. The way this is stated planet value might not be affected but I know it was in the demo and I haven't used remote mining since then.

Re: Remote minning
 

In a system with nothing but asteroids, if I remote mine will those resource be available to my empire? There is no starport, and I have never tried it out.

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I'm sorry Dave, I'm afraid I can't do that.

Re: Remote minning
 

Remote mining does not require a spaceport to get the resources back to your empire.

Re: Remote minning
 

Still this is THE invention to get some value out of those research planets. I usually have quite a few and although I only use low ressource planets for research colonies it's still not necessary to let the ressources just sit there. Great strategy!

Re: Remote minning
 

But remeber, to remote mine, the planet can't be colonized first. You'd have to drain it of minerals first, then colonize it and make it a research planet.

Re: Remote minning
 

http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/blush.gif Yeeaah, I figured that out by now. Pretty stupid of me. It says it right in the remote miner's description that you can't mine colonized planets.

Re: Remote minning
 

I think there is a way around decreasing values of planets by using religious tech adv. racial trait.One of the facilities there improves value of all planets in the system by 1, 2, 3 depending of Version.So with I you get no loss from RM, with 2 and 3 you actually get improvment.The other thing about RM is that it is not affected by appropriate racial characteristics (mining, farming, extraction).so if you are going for RM as you main source of resources (I'm trying to take that road) you could get points from there.I haven't checked does the system value improvement thingy works, but it seems t me that it should.

Re: Remote minning
 

One other thing.I find tiny valuable world (rock, ice) very suitable for RM.My strategy is to colonize them, build SY and minning base (battlestation is minimum).This way I can have minning base up in 7-10 turns (depending on SY and robo-miner level used)level.I know that yardships could do this in same times (more or less) but idea here is to get RM Online fast without getting to much tech in the begining (only tech required is base const 2 for battlestation).

Re: Remote minning
 

Ok, let me get this strait. You build a Starbase at a planet, namely a research planet, and fill it with remote miners?

And as a result, it will mine the planet. Hum, sounds interesting. I will have to give it a shot.

Thanks for the tip. AI look out. http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon8.gif

[This message has been edited by Atrocities (edited 15 January 2001).]

Re: Remote minning
 

No I bulid a starbase on a tiny valuable planet and abandon that planet letting minning starbase to do the rest.The idea here is to use minimal technology invsetment to get desired effect (battlestation with 14 minning robots minning a mineral rich tiny world).

[This message has been edited by alasyr (edited 15 January 2001).]

Re: Remote minning
 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by alasyr:
I think there is a way around decreasing values of planets by using religious tech adv. racial trait.One of the facilities there improves value of all planets in the system by 1, 2, 3 depending of Version.So with I you get no loss from RM, with 2 and 3 you actually get improvment.The other thing about RM is that it is not affected by appropriate racial characteristics (mining, farming, extraction).so if you are going for RM as you main source of resources (I'm trying to take that road) you could get points from there.I haven't checked does the system value improvement thingy works, but it seems t me that it should.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I dont think you can do this, I think only one value improvement plant works per system or per planet.

Re: Remote minning
 

Sorry, in my previous post about system value improvement facilities (SVI in further text) I wasn't precise enough.I did't mean putting 3 (as quatity) SVI in system but one of the either SVI I, II, III Version.Version I improves 1% per turn, II 2% and III 3%.So what I ment is if i put one SVI I system i get no decrease in values because remote mining decrease values of planet by 1 and SVI I increaces the same value by 1 thoroght the system, and SVI II and III improves the values of remote mined planets by 1, 2 (other planets by 2, 3).Hope this clears thing up.Still I haven't test this yet.

Re: Remote minning
 

Sadly remote mining decreases the value of the planet/asteroid by 1 percentage point PER robominer. So with fifteen robos on one battlestation it takes only ten turns to suck the world dry.

Another drawback is maintenance for the battlestation. It will stay the same amount, while return from the mined planet will decrease with its value.

It's not possible to mine a colonized planet.

In total I give the battle station mining project no positive business report. Bad return on investment. You have to build the thing first, then after sucking the planet dry (or even sooner when maintenance outweihgs return) you'll have to scrap it losing two thirds of your investment.

For a battlestation with 15 robominers II:

Cost: Battlestation: 18 kt
maintenance(10 turns) 35 kt
---------
53 kt

Scrap_Value of Base 18kT * 0.3 = 5.400

Incomeformula: (Planet_Value / Number_Robominers) * (Robominer_Return * Number_Robominers) * (Planet_Value / 100 / 2)

( with (Planet_Value / 100 / 2) being the average mining value because of the decreasing Planet_Value )

For a Planet_Value of 150% and 15 Robominers II with a return of 700 each:

150/15 * 700*15 * 150/100/2 = 10 turns * 10.500/turn * 0,75 = 78.750

For a Planet_Value of 120

120/15 * 700*15 * 120/100/2 = 8 * 10.500 * 0,6 = 50.400

For P_V of 105 you only get 38.587,5

Totals:

P_V 150%: 78.750 - 53.000 + 5.400 = 31150

P_V 120%: 50.400 - 53.000 + 5.400 = 2.800

P_V 105%: 38.588 - 53.000 + 5.400 = -9012

(Sorry, I used German notation: thousands point and decimal comma)

So in the end you'll be way better off with Heavy or Medium Satellites. Less maintenance cost plus you can relocate the sats after one location is out of minerals.



[This message has been edited by Eisenhans (edited 16 January 2001).]

Re: Remote minning
 

I don't bother with robo-mining anyways because the AI doesnt do it,and I don't want to be able to do something they can't.

I also gave up moving and firing my own ships in tactical battle. The only fun you can have playing this game is to try to play on the same terms as the AI. Or play against a human.

As the game is now, I think we should only robo-mine against human opponents.

Re: Remote minning
 

Remote mining would be infinitely more useful if we could mine inhabited planets. Great for research centers, military bases, etc. I think if MM does anything to remote mining, it should allow the mining of colonized planets.

Re: Remote minning
 

Being able to mine colonized planets would have to be limited to only YOUR planets though. Otherwise you could do some really nasty tactics to your opponents.

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Harkonis HellRazor

Re: Remote minning
 

What's wrong with that?

Re: Remote minning
 

To Eisenhans
Sorry, but planet value is decreased by 1% per minning ship/base not per miner.
With that and 150% starting value minning battlestation with 14 robo-miners I could mine for 120 turns making a profit.It would mine 914760 minerals, spent 322500 on maintenance and initial cost contributing 592260 minerals to empire before shutdown.

formulaes:

v0 initial planet value (1.5)
vd planet value decrease (0.01)
q quantity of miners (14 in my case)
r mining rate (600 for miner I)
i initial investment (base cost, 20K in my case)
m maintenance (2500 in my case)

t number of turns t=0 mark the turn when station starts minning

g(t)=r*q*(t+1)*(v0-t*vd/2) total minerals mined

e(t)=i+(t+1)m total expences



[This message has been edited by alasyr (edited 16 January 2001).]

Re: Remote minning
 

Sure about the 1% decrease per mining station? I tried the thing out on my brother's computer and he only has the demo (0.99) and mining decreased 1% per miner. To be exact it decreased 7% per turn for each ressource although it should have decreased 7 for minerals 5 for organics and 2 for radioactives assuming it decrease depends on the number of miners.
Never tried it in the full Version though.

Re: Remote minning
 

Well at least at 1.19 Version planet value decreases 1% per turn per minning ship(base) (not sattelites) and I am 100% sure that it is the way it worked for minning ship based on battlestation design.Maybe you are running a previous Version (prior 1.19) because it seems that remote minning has been tweaked considerably from patch to patch.

Re: Remote minning
 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by alasyr:
Sorry, in my previous post about system value improvement facilities (SVI in further text) I wasn't precise enough.I did't mean putting 3 (as quatity) SVI in system but one of the either SVI I, II, III Version.Version I improves 1% per turn, II 2% and III 3%.So what I ment is if i put one SVI I system i get no decrease in values because remote mining decrease values of planet by 1 and SVI I increaces the same value by 1 thoroght the system, and SVI II and III improves the values of remote mined planets by 1, 2 (other planets by 2, 3).Hope this clears thing up.Still I haven't test this yet.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Are you sure this improvement is per turn and not per year(10 turns)?

Re: Remote minning
 

To General Hawkwing
It seems that you are right about value improvement.It is per year, not per turn as I wrongly stated before.I've taken years and turns to be equal in my mind (not in the game though) when browsing through facilities.txt.

[This message has been edited by alasyr (edited 19 January 2001).]

Re: Remote minning
 

In 1.19 each base or ship always subtracts one from the relevant value no matter how many components it has. 1 or 14 doesn't matter, value is decreased by one. Makes no sense to me so I turn off remote mining depletion. Only one satelite can mine a location. 2 or more in a group doesn't help, only one will mine and it will drop the value.

Re: Remote minning
 

bump