A research question
 

Does anyone know how the "repeat research projects" button works? Does it work with only 1 area selected? Do unused research points roll forward? EX: If level 1 costs 5000, level 2 costs 10,000 and I have 17,000 points will I research both levels 1 & 2 in one turn and spend the remaining points on level 3.
I'll try to test this tonight but was wondering if anyone already knew.

Re: A research question
 

Yes, it works exactly like that. And you can repeat several projects if you like, either sequentially or simultaneously.

Re: A research question
 

Speaking of rollover, if you let your research queue run dry and then assign a new project after getting the notice, are the extra points from Last turn lost?

I'd assume so - and it seems a reasonable penalty for "bureaucratic" disorganization - but I was curious if anybody knew for sure.

Re: A research question
 

Psi,

Yes if not used the research points are lost. There is no "storage" for research points.

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Seawolf on the prowl

Re: A research question
 

Ran some tests Last night and found that it would only advance 1 tech level per turn. This was on demo 0.56. I did not get the message saying that all projects were complete. My research screen showed level 2 research with no part completed.
My tests had around 22,000 points and I was researching level 1 5,000 point, level 2 10,000 point items.
This makes no sense from a mathematical view and little sense from a realistic research point of view.

Re: A research question
 

THere are two ways of researching thinggs
You can split all the points, or finsih the projects in order
Splitting points can waste points
Doing it in order does one or two at a time
Repeat projects just makes it do the same research over and over

Re: A research question
 

Internet connection glitch here I'm sorry if this appears twice.

Instar, yes that is correct. However, it is folly to split points evenly if 1 project will coomplete on the next turn. All points over those needed to complete the project are lost.
The question is why don't points roll forward to the next level. In other games the do. In fact, they did in SE3! Others have said it before and I'll say it again, the research point allocation method is MUCH better in SE3 than in SE4. I don't know if it is possible to leap 2 or more levels in a turn in SE3 since I never focused my research that much. In fact, the even splitting of points has made me change my approach to research.

Re: A research question
 

General,

But whenyou get more and more reseach points you can have 2-4 projects done in a turn. The lack of carryover may be changed later, but think about this you need to know the tech before you can research more and the game may need a turn to realize you have the tech, also there may be other tech tress that get triggered. Just a thought or 2


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Seawolf on the prowl

Re: A research question
 

Seawolf,
I usually research more than 1 tech area at a time. I just wanted to know what would happen. Say you run across a race with advanced missles and your pt def is level 1. Would be nice to jump up a couple levels quickly.
My concern is having to waste research points on technology that I may consider currently unimportant because if I don't spend them I lose them. Then I have to reorder the tech projects to keep the unimportant tech at the tail end of research points.
In SE3 I could set research to 0% (archieve the files) and not lose already spent points. Has anyone tried to turn off a research project in SE4? Are the points lost or is the project partially finished?

[This message has been edited by General Hawkwing (edited 16 October 2000).]

Re: A research question
 

NO idea I will check and get back to you

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Seawolf on the prowl

Re: A research question
 

Seawolf,
Any results to report yet?

Re: A research question
 

I think the SE3 research model with percentage allocation was much better. You could have some projects running on backburner while other got alot of attention. And you could easily crashresearch a vital area and jump several levels at once.

I miss the SE3 research model. It would be so much better if they brought it back and made intel ops like that as well.

Re: A research question
 

Jubala: I must agree with you... But also, I miss the SE3 interface, the SE3 build queue, and some SE3 game settings (starting tech points, AI starting planets, for example).

Anyway, I believe(hope) that some of those things will be fixed in future patches.

Re: A research question
 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Master Belisarius:
Jubala: I must agree with you... But also, I miss the SE3 interface, the SE3 build queue, and some SE3 game settings (starting tech points, AI starting planets, for example).

Anyway, I believe(hope) that some of those things will be fixed in future patches.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The more I play both Versions I have to agree with both of you, especially on the Research Screen. I really get a feeling of being limited in Research Options ( the core of the Game IMHO )in the new Version.

I wonder if someone close to the project can explain the reasons for the change to the research interface in SE IV.

Re: A research question
 

Ok it seems that if you spend funds on research then stop the points spent are remembered and yuo only have to add the difference. But the tech expense listed won't show it.

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Seawolf on the prowl

Re: A research question
 

I never played SEIII, but the current research model is flawed. It makes absolutely no sense to divide points evenly, since the total time to obtain all the technologies in the queue is equal to the amount of time to research each tech sequentially. By devoting all research to one project at a time, you have the first tech much sooner, and the later techs at the same time as dividing equally.

It would make more sense to give some sort of bonus to tech for researching equally, or penalty for researching one item at a time. For example, if only one tech was researched, only 60% of total research points would be used, the remaining would be wasted. Two items could utilize 80% of all total research, wasting only 20%. However, each item would receive only 40% of the grand total. This would force players to choose between faster results or more efficient but slower multiple item research.

On a related note, it would be cool if a science pod were available for ships. These would be used for special assignments, such as researching black holes. Research points from these ships would be necessary for certain technology. It would also give an incentive to build massive research stations near black holes and other exotic locations, needing some sort of thrusters to keep them stable. These would make great targets in times of war. &lt;evil grin&gt;.

Re: A research question
 

Many 4x games have a slider or something so you can divvy up your research among different areas, with varying percentages to each. That would be more useful than SE4's equal division of points.

I think the game "Spaceward Ho!" (an old favorite of mine - anyone remember that one?) was set up that if you pumped lots of money into a single research area, you got diminishing returns for the extra money.

Re: A research question
 

True, as I recall, either MOO or MOO2 (or both) had such a system, as does Stars!. That other games use this system doesn’t change the underlying math … applying a portion of a specific amount of research points to several tech projects is less efficient than concentrating one at a time. All good Stars! players know this. I didn’t play MOO 1 or 2 multiplayer, but realized early on that dividing tech offered no benefit whatsoever.

Don’t get me wrong, I like the idea of multiple research items. That’s why I think it should be more efficient to research several projects at once. But under the current system, you can bet your Last Wave Motion Gun that I will research my projects sequentially.

BTW, does anyone know the true source of the Wave Motion Gun?

Re: A research question
 

Yep, spreading your research points out among multiple projects is less efficient than putting them all in one at a time.

The case where I'd like to be able to allocate a specific percentage to multiple projects (instead of evenly dividing it) is when I want to research a very expensive item, like say, gas colony, but without putting a halt on all other research progress for many turns. So I would put maybe 5-20% research onto that and leave the rest for quicker goals. You can sort of have the same effect with SE4's dividing the point evenly system, but then I couldn't do a 90-10 split. And it's worse than that, because in SE4 with the even split, when a project is completed, and excess points allocated to it are lost.

As for the Wave Motion Gun - Star Blazers was one of my favorite cartoons as a kid. The WMG was the Big Gun on the Yamato.

Re: A research question
 

I also remember Star Blazers/Yamato very fondly. I was a bit disappointed to read the stats on the WMG in the other thread. I think I'll tweak it to make it more powerful in my own Version!

Re: A research question
 

Re: Splitting tech. It sounds like a good idea to split between an expensive item and a cheap item until you do the math. You get the expensive item in the exact same amount of time. By splitting tech, all you are doing is delaying the cheap item.

Re: Wave motion. It predates Star Blazers. Unless I am dreaming, it was first used on Bugs Bunny when our favorite rabbit encountered the martian, … the one with the broom on his head. That brings the wave motion gun to the 1950s or so.

Re: A research question
 

I think you're thinking of the "Illudium Q-36 Explosive Space Modulator" that Marvin needs to blow up the earth. Do a google search on "explosive space modulator" and you'll find it. Check out this site: http://members.home.net/kdpennock/marvin/marvin.htm

Search on Wave Motion Gun and you'll find the Star Blazers stuff, like at this site: http://www.wizard.net/~jghiloni/links.html

Re: A research question
 

And that reminds me: I want Wave Motion Engines too!

Re: A research question
 

That's what so great about Space Empires; you can have them. Just design them and add them to your files. Getting the AI to use them is a different story.

[This message has been edited by General Hawkwing (edited 06 November 2000).]

Re: A research question
 

Psitticine: "I also remember Star Blazers/Yamato very fondly."

Hai! Most certainly, yes!

LintMan: "As for the Wave Motion Gun - Star Blazers was one of my favorite cartoons as a kid. The WMG was the Big Gun on the Yamato."

Another fan... Yes! Yes! Yes!

Repo Man: "BTW, does anyone know the true source of the Wave Motion Gun?"

Yes!, Uchuu Senkan Yamato [Space Battleship Yamato], a.k.a. "Star Blazers" in the U.S.

I'm a big 4X fan: MOO2, BOTF, IG II, and now SE IV, yeah! But, Yamato/Star Blazers has a special place in my heart.... Nice to see WMG in SE IV. It was a "game-killer" in the show, though.