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Finding major problems
Ok, been playing all day, and it seems like allot of the functions and features don't work as designed or described in the manual.
For example, playing in simultanious movement I cannot get either combat reports or into tactical combat itself. The "No tactical combat" is not set, and I find nothing else that would disable this function. Though a battle is fought (or so my log file says), the "Combat reply" option doesn't light up. Ships destroyed in unstable wormwholes only show a message in the Log as "damaged", but they dissapear (indicating they are destroyed). Telling a ship to load population and then move fails. The ship loads the population, then stops and erases it's movement. Using the option to automatically send a colony ship to a potential colony world also fails. Sometimes the ship clears it's orders, other times it pickes the furthest colony ship to send. All and all, it's pretty ugly. I've gone through the manuals and found no way to correct these issues. If I'm doing something wrong, then it would appear that the manuals and interface are poorly laid out. These options (those that have then) are set correctly but still failing. This means it's about to become shelfware, which is a pity considering the potential. Thog |
Re: Finding major problems
"All and all, it's pretty ugly ...
... This means it's about to become shelfware, which is a pity considering the potential." I play strategic resolution of combat, minister control of colonization and population transports and sequential moves style. These issues are not show stoppers for me. (I am playing 0.99 till Monday so my opinion may be worthless here http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif) I would bet money that these and many other minor glitches and bugs will be fixed in the first or second patch. Patience will be rewarded with years of great gameplay. The only thing I want in the manual is some kind of a tech tree to print out for reference while playing. <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by -Thog-: Ok, been playing all day, and it seems like allot of the functions and features don't work as designed or described in the manual. For example, playing in simultanious movement I cannot get either combat reports or into tactical combat itself. The "No tactical combat" is not set, and I find nothing else that would disable this function. Though a battle is fought (or so my log file says), the "Combat reply" option doesn't light up. Ships destroyed in unstable wormwholes only show a message in the Log as "damaged", but they dissapear (indicating they are destroyed). Telling a ship to load population and then move fails. The ship loads the population, then stops and erases it's movement. Using the option to automatically send a colony ship to a potential colony world also fails. Sometimes the ship clears it's orders, other times it pickes the furthest colony ship to send. All and all, it's pretty ugly. I've gone through the manuals and found no way to correct these issues. If I'm doing something wrong, then it would appear that the manuals and interface are poorly laid out. These options (those that have then) are set correctly but still failing. This means it's about to become shelfware, which is a pity considering the potential. Thog <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> |
Re: Finding major problems
Resident Alien
..."The only thing I want in the manual is some kind of a tech tree to print out for reference while playing." You can do that in the demo. Start a game with the entire tech tree visible to all players. You can then use the export button to save the entire tree to a text file and then print it out. I forget which menu you access to do that but you'll see it if you look around. Elmo [This message has been edited by Elmo (edited 12 November 2000).] |
Re: Finding major problems
Hey!! Thanks Elmo! That's just what I am looking for and it was there all along. You can export two views of the tree into CSV files. Perfect for spreadsheet sorting and printing.
Thanks http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Elmo: Resident Alien ..."The only thing I want in the manual is some kind of a tech tree to print out for reference while playing." You can do that in the demo. Start a game with the entire tech tree visible to all players. You can then use the export button to save the entire tree to a text file and then print it out. I forget which menu you access to do that but you'll see it if you look around. Elmo [This message has been edited by Elmo (edited 12 November 2000).]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> [This message has been edited by Resident Alien (edited 12 November 2000).] |
Re: Finding major problems
Unforetunately, I can't even get a replay to watch, so I've no idea what happened in combat. More to the point, these aren't exactly subtile bugs, and it shouldn't have shipped with them (assuming they are bugs and not some bizzare interface issue).
I doubt it's as simple as the testers missing it (contrary to popular belief, testers rarely miss things that obvious), but more likely the wronge file Versions being included in the CD, or the final cut made after the problem they had with the recall not being retested, or something similar. I would like to hear from Mafeasance <grin> on the issue. Thog |
Re: Finding major problems
Here's a quote from the manual:
"Simultaneous Games work a little different than Turn-Based games. Every player takes their turn at the same time as the other players (if on different machines). Players can only give orders to their ships, they will not move. Movement for all players is executed at the same time after all of the players have taken their turns. Combat which occurs is resolved automatically by the computer and no Tactical Combat is allowed." It's not a bug, it's the only logical way it can work. |
Re: Finding major problems
Understood. However, I was under the impression that simultanious movement would have a combat replay feature. This way you can see what happened when the computer resolved the combat. THAT is the only way to get any idea what weapons worked, what didn't and why.
So the lack of the replay feature severely impacts the utility of the simultaneous movement system. Since you haven't the foggest idea what happened (except that you won or lost), you have no way to really improve your approach or designs. In that case, why bother with complex ship designs? After all, you'll never know if it made any difference. I still haven't found anything in the paper manual or on-line that indicates that the combat replay feature is disabled in Simultaneous mode. I fact, I can't find that quote in the paper manual at all (though it is in the on-line Version). I also noticed a comment in the Online manual that; "For some things, this is instantaneous such as transferring cargo or renaming something". This is true of renaming, but does not appear to be true of cargo. That seems to wait till the next turn. Thog |
Re: Finding major problems
I dunno, Thog. If these issues are enough for you to consign this title to the shelf, what on Earth do you play? Seems to me to be pretty paltry issues, given that turn based works fine.....
------------------ KMJ |
Re: Finding major problems
Don't forget the combat simulator, given that IIRC you always get the other side's ship designs after combat. There, you can test [most things*] to your heart's content.
* At least in the demo, starbases, planets and ships didn't necessarily start anywhere near each other. Makes it harder to test multiple battlestations defending a world. ------------------ -- The thing that goes bump in the night |
Re: Finding major problems
To everyone who has found problems:
Don't worry, there's a patch coming next week! Be sure to email us with anything you have encountered. Aaron |
Re: Finding major problems
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by KillerManJaro:
I dunno, Thog. If these issues are enough for you to consign this title to the shelf, what on Earth do you play? Seems to me to be pretty paltry issues, given that turn based works fine..... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Yes, but my main interest in SE4 is in simultaneous-turn multiplay (I hope a lot of other people are interested too!) I agree it would be really nice to have a combat-replay feature. I don't know if it was promised or not. |
Re: Finding major problems
Sorry for delay, machine bought it.
Well, as it turns out I am enjoying turn based enough to keep playing (remember I said I hadn't gotten to it yet and didn't know). It's a good game with some very solid design elements, some really annoying bugs, and an interface that is about 75% 'there'. But as I said, simultaneous mode has major problems. Dweebs comment is spot on, in that I'm looking at SE4 as a replacement for VGAP, Stars and VGAP4 (which I think became vaporware). That's not practical in turn-based, and simultaneous has just enough shortcomings to make it not worth the effort. Don't read this as "SE4 isn't worth the effort and sucks". That isn't what I'm saying. It's just got a few shortcomings with major impact that need to be corrected. True of many games on first release. Interface short list: * Ability to sort planets by "Only My Empire". * Ability to select a system in Planets Display and have it show only planets/contruction sites in that system. * Ability to say "Send colony ship" without opening a new window and having to scroll around looking for the planet you've just identified in the Planet Display. * Ability to choose which colony ship from a list. Use the right-click for some of these perhaps? Simultaneous short list: * Ability to set formations, battle plans etc. (This may exist, but doesn't show up, because...) * Ability to replay a recording of a battle. I want to see what happened in that fight where my 2nd Fleet got wiped out. Aaron, thanks for the support. You folks seem to have a good rep with your players, and you have a good (and reasonably stable) design. My concerns with the interface are a result of playing it allot for a couple evenings (where seemingly minor things start to chafe). My concerns with simultaneous play are simply that without a replay feature the game loses a very large chunk of functionality, in that the whole point to these games for many folks is to see the USS Spoon smash the other guy in the head. Thog |
Re: Finding major problems
The esc key does not close all windows--such as the facility description in the planet display. Why not bring up the short name of the facility just by placing cursor over facility icon? Now you have to right click to get it up, then click with mouse to close it (I like to use esc on my Strategic Commander).
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Re: Finding major problems
I doubt that there will be a replay capability of tactical battles. Mainly because I really doubt that the computer actually "fights" the battle. In most games such as this, instant tactical combat is merely a calculation of various offensive and defensive factors, comparing weapon strenghts, ranges, defensive armor, shields, number of weapons, etc. I know there appears to be a battle fought quickly onscreen, so perhaps I am wrong here, but most games do it this way.
And yes, you can choose tactics and formations - I think you can find it on the "Fleets" screen. Grifman |
Re: Finding major problems
Well, if you are correct about stratigic combat, what's the point of those tactics and formations? I think the computer goes through and fights the battle quickly.
Phoenix-D |
Re: Finding major problems
In SE3 at least, the strategic battles were fought out rounf by round, as you could skip through them and watch as your missiles and fighters moved towards the enemy.
------------------ Brave Sir Graeme ran away Bravely ran away away When danger reared its ugly head He bravely turned his tail and fled Brave sir Graeme turned about and guaranteed he chickened out. |
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