What now????
 

Well,

flame me or not.

After playing like a maniac, i see, that this game is not finished. The Ai not only need improvements, it is still in need to be able to play as a part of the game itself.

I don´t have the time nor the patience to code my own AI - this is the job of the progammers i paid money to. And this job is not finished in a very big part!!!!!!

Don´t get me wrong, this game is/would be great if all the fixes would be made, but at the moment, this is no full game for me. So i am not angry, but frustrated - ... such a depth, such a great variaty.... what great games would be possible....

So, i don´t play further (after i know now all secrets of the game, it´s too boring to play only to win against a weak AI), and will wait what the next patches will bring.

I thought, that this game would be my game over the christmas time - but it isn´t.

Sorry, i have to say this.

See you till the next patch.

Jochen

Re: What now????
 

Way ahead of ya, Jochen-baby!

disk is just gathering dust.

Jonathan

Re: What now????
 

Yeah, same here. I lost interest two weeks ago. I keep poking my head in here to see if there are any fixes.

Amazing how just one or two aspects can ruin a practically perfect game.

All the things you can do are amazing and exciting, but if you can't play a decent AI, it just pales.

Re: What now????
 

May I make a suggestion?

If y'all don't care for the AI, why don't you try playing against each other?

Re: What now????
 

Well, I guess I'm just more stubborn than y'all are. http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/ima...ons/icon12.gif

I'm still plowing ahead and making tweaks and changes. Every now and then I can get a good if not great game out of the AI. Its still very lacking in the 'flavor' department though as far as AIs go. I think the MOO series is a tough act to follow in that regard and that is what most folks are going to use as the baseline.

Personally, I do agree that parts seem unfinished. I think this is simply too large of an undertaking for what is basically a one man design/programming outfit. I think the game could GREATLY benefit from having a few extra people go in and do alot of work on the AI in terms of Messages sent and general 'personality'. I think the basic framework is there, but without info on the inner working of the AI, all we can do as Users is scratch the surface.

But even at that, I'm still enjoying the game. Anything that I can tweak and futz with the numbers gets a big boost in my book! http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

Talenn

Re: What now????
 

My disk is on the way to being an expensive coaster. I was counting on the single play being good because IMHO multiplay games will take way too long.

The AI seems to be pretty poor and the game play is somewhat interesting, but not exciting. What killed it for me are two things:

1. Going to war with a race and then watching the race's 36 dreadnoughts fail to attack my lightly defended colony that I just took from them.

2. There appears to be no rhyme or reason to the diplomacy and moods. If I start doing too well, all of the contacted races get ticked off and declare war.

I will definitely look for patches to correct game play issues, but as it stands there's no way I can recommend SEIV to anyone else.

I should know by now - DO NOT PREORDER! http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: What now????
 

C4:

Yes the first problem you cite is pretty bad. I've seen it over and over again as well. Even when at war, the AI's handling of the conflicts are inept at best and border on criminal at worst. This is definately something which needs looking into and will prolly be addressed in a future patch...I hope.

The second 'problem' is an intended feature called 'Mega Evil AI'. Basically, it IS supposed to gang up on the winner at some point. I think this is a good thing and forces you to be more self sufficient in the later stages of the game rather than depending on Trade to float your econ.

You CAN turn this off however. Go into the 'settings' file and change 'AI uses Mega Evil' from TRUE to FALSE. That should take care of that issue for you.

But, I still think the 'Diplomacy' has miles to go. It seems to be limited to 'Treaties', 'General Messages' and 'Request to remove presence/break treaty with bad guys' Messages. I know there are ALOT more Messages and whatnot in the data, but I rarely if EVER see them. Where are the Demands for gifts? Why can I freely colonize planets in my 'allies' HOME SYSTEM without drawing a protest?

One thing that would really liven up the game IMO would be that AI 'Allies' drag you into conflicts. If your ally is attacked, they should be requesting help. You should be REQUIRED to give help or else lose the Treaty or some other diplomatic penalty assessed. As it is now, I feel like Daffy Duck arming both the dog and cat for their war against each other. http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif Even in the cartoon, both sides EVENTUALLY figured out what Daffy was up to and ganged up on HIM. http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

Oh well, I guess what is lacking is consequences for your actions. Allying with everyone and their mother should come at a price should one or more of them go to war. You should be force to choose sides. And with the possibility of being forced into a major conflict with little warning would come a requirement to maintain a standing military. This, in turn would slow down the insane advantage in expansion that a human player has over the AI who IS always maintaining a fleet of ships that it rarely uses (or uses properly at least).

None of this would require major coding IMO. Simply altering existing code and adding in a few tweaks here and there. I hate to say this, but MOO accomplished a FAR better diplomatic/race model 5 years ago! Even in regards to the way the AI fights, I think MOO/MOO2 prioritized targets and whatnot far better...of course MOO/MOO2 ALSO cheated at an insane level so pick your poison, I guess. http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/ima...ons/icon12.gif

Its all a complicated issue and I'm willing to wait and see what comes out to rectify the situation. SE3 had some major upgrades done to it and I'm hoping that SE4 will receive the same treatment. Yes, it is kind of disappointing that as it is now, the AI feels 'cardboard' at best, but the game SYSTEM is so well done that I'm sure it will be worth the wait.

Talenn

Re: What now????
 

Easy to fix: the AI should perform a target-
value-to-defense ratio, weighted perhaps by
distance to target, and attack the most
valuable targets that also happen to be the
most weakly defended. Attacks could be formed
using some heuristic: for example, the AI
might prefer an X:1 attacker-to-defender
ratio and once this ratio is achieved or
projected, other targets are considered. This
form of AI is actually VERY EASY to implement; more difficult is projecting what
the human player might do and developing an
appropriate response.

C//

Re: What now????
 

I'm pretty much with the majority here. I've stopped playing altogether until the AI gets fixed (finished?), but I'm still having fun making a custom shipset for my race in the meantime.

I can't wait to play this game again for the first time after the AI is patched. It's just too much like shooting ducks in a barrel right now. Ah well, thank goodness for Paint Shop Pro http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/ima...ons/icon10.gif...

Re: What now????
 

OK, let's face it :

1 - The AI must cheat if it is to stand a chance.

There is to much variables in this game. An AI will never reach the level of a human player. That's why AI are so good in chess : There is not much variables. It is easy to implement routine to make an AI very good in chess. Do you thing there would have been a challenge in Civ2 and MOO2 without cheating ?


2 - Malfador must still fix the AI.

It must stop doing stupid things, like :

- ignoring minefields,
- ignoring human player colonization in area of influence
- making suicidal attacks (that's not hard to implement !)
- Not using the latest technologies (ECM and sensors on attack ship, etc..)
- You all know what I am talking about...

AI must be made #1 priority.

Is it useful to add new feature (ex. Drones) if humans are the only one who are going to use them ?

Multiplayer is way too long for most players. Anyway, is it fun playing with 2 friends and 10 AI if all AI's are just waiting to be invaded ?

As for Talemn and all others doing Mods : Keep up the work, we will get there someday ! And please share your wisdom http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

Malfador : Congratulation anyway ! considering the resources that you had to make a game, it is one good game system.

Re: What now????
 

Yes, this COULD be a great game with its breadth, customizability, sound diplomatic options... if it either had sufficient multiplayer ability (including tactical combat or at least a battleviewer, because battles are what everybody is working towards the whole game over) or at a decend AI. As it stands now, I have to second what has been said earlier: the game right now is just too boring to be recommended to anybody.

Re: What now????
 

Michou:

Yes, I agree that the AI must cheat a bit in order to be competitive. I have no problem with that. I just dont want to see it get to the point like Shogun:Total War where it was EXTREMELY obvious that you and the AI were even playing by the same rules! That game was so blatant that even reviewers were commenting on it and that is BAD.

I also agree that it should be the #1 priority for MM. Adding new features is nice and all, but ultimately, those features are meaningless if the game is no longer interesting to play. I have not reached that stage, but I can see it happening once I run out of ways to make the AI more challenging myself.

Talenn

Re: What now????
 

Hey Courageous, I have to ask, how much computer programming have you done? I hope you have because AI's in general are pretty tough things to do!
I tend to agree, but that has not stopped me from playing. The AI is pretty challenging as it is, but it could be better. And MM will never let the AI cheat.

Re: What now????
 

Hey, why don't you guys quit your complaining and play eacher by email. Playing against a human is always more fun. People are less predictable and will counter any design you come up with for your ships. That is the beauty about a game like this.

Re: What now????
 

You can arrange to give the AI special bonuses easily enough. Edit the ai_general files in the directories to add more abilities to each of the options for each race. "Race Opt 1" is the "Low" points option (2000), "Race Opt 2" is the medium (3000), and "Race Opt 3" is the High (5000) option in game setup. Do a little math if you want to be proportional in giving the AIs their advantages or just add stuff that seems good to add according to the nature of the race. I gave the Phong an "environmental resistance" bonus because their description says they have it. http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif Not sure how much good it does them, though. Maybe I'll add some other things. once you've boosted the AI empires' abilities, play with a "normal" race yourself, choosing no special tech areas or other big advantages and you'll have to use some ingenuity to beat them. The AI is improving in the betas, btw. You'll find the next patch a few notches more difficult. http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

[This message has been edited by Baron Munchausen (edited 09 December 2000).]

Re: What now????
 

Baron:

Yep, I've done that. You have to be careful though not to exceed 5000 points worth of stuff. The AI is constrained by the costs as much as a player is even when the data is coming from the AI_General files.

Talenn

Re: What now????
 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Michou:
OK, let's face it :

1 - The AI must cheat if it is to stand a chance.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I actually have no problem with a Cheating AI. That's how Sid Meier always did his. One of the problems, however, is that IIRC the AI will take over for a player who misses his turn is a multiplayer game. In this case, it is critical for the AI NOT to cheat. It might be necessary therefore to include TWO AIs, cheating and non-cheating. In fact, I think players who miss their multiplayer turns should be punished by having their empires run by a poor AI!

Re: What now????
 

Dweeb:

The 'cheating' can take many forms that dont necessarily alter the dynamics of the game. A simple production/research bonus (already included in the 'AI Bonus' setting) is an example. Another would be giving it access to info it wouldnt otherwise have in order for it to be able to properly determine if it is strong enough to attack a certain location.

Things like that wont be broken if the AI has to take over for a human player. I dont think you'd want to switch back and forth though.

Overall, I'm not a big fan of AI 'cheating' but in a game this complex, its apparent that it needs SOME sort of boost. Actually, thats not entirely true from the 'challenge' standpoint. It would STILL be challenging even as it is if the AI would simply display some aggression early in the game. The ability for a human player to expand is greatly increased when they dont have to worry about defense in the slightest.

I'm pretty sure that if the next Version of the AI comes out and it is far more aggressive (and makes more intelligent attacks...ie actually STACKS before it attacks in the early game), people will find the game far more challenging.

Talenn

Re: What now????
 

Actually I wish MM would let the mod authors help them more directly by incorporating our alterations instead of doing that part themselves. They should concentrate on AI & abilities (I'm still waiting for a resupply generators to work as they don't know & my nuclear reactors look silly using solar gen http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/ima...ons/icon12.gif ). I personnally have made over 50 new components, added 4 new sciences, 5 new ship types, etc... That as soon as I'm done balancing & the few remaining issues are settled I'll be releasing (work & college have not yet let me finish these Last two things http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/ima...ons/icon12.gif ).

But yes the AI needs work, I've still been suprised by the AI occasionally, but not often enough to call it a challenge & yes this should be the first priority for MM besides making sure all the abilities actually work for the mod authors... http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/ima...ons/icon12.gif

Re: What now????
 

An AI doesn't need to cheat to win.

An AI does, however, need to be able to take into account all the data that a human would to see and react. Currently, I don't think the AI on SE4 is even close to finished. Heck, the personality files aren't even finished... They said more things in SE3.

MOO had a better diplomacy model? What? 'You must be my friend, or I'll declare war!' 'Declare war on Joe or I'll declare war on you!' 'You have to many points, I declare war on you!'... I think those are all the modes in MOO2 I saw. That, and, 'I won't speak to you, we're at war!' so you couldn't even offer to surrender to them, let alone ask them to surrender. Sheesh.

C'mon, MOO2 crashed every fifty turns, the 'large' galaxy wouldn't even be half the size of a 'small quadrant' in SE4... I'd happily play SE3 over MOO2, let alone SE4, where I can tweak to my heart's desire.

Better model? Gaining dust? What kind of gamers are you? 5000 point racial advantages? Geez, no wonder the AI can't keep up with you war-mongers. Think in-character... If you're ready to nuke them before they've even met you, you can hardly blame them for losing. Sure they can't explore to well yet, an' they often get tied up in meaningless little battles. But think of all the things they -can- do!

AI is a long, labourious project, which often requires hours and hours of tweaking to find out why Emperor Joe decided to go left instead of right. Even the computer player's Tactical combat is better than in MOO or even SE3. With more weapons, even!

The one thing I could suggest, though, it'd be nice to get some direct feedback on the updates... Like an email list for registered Users?

Anyhow. I'll stop picking on y'all and go back to fighting my way across the universe to dislodge my spouse from her stronghold behind the great rift...

- Crissa

------------------
Crissa Kentavr
Lost Girls

Re: What now????
 

Kentavr:

Well, for a game this complex I'm quite sure the AI will need a boost to beat or compete with competent human players. The ability to produce an AI which can make long term plans but take into account reactions to actions taken by others is more or less beyond the ability of programmers and current machines. Oh sure, given a LONG time, I'm sure someone could up with something close, but realistically, that aint gonna happen for SE4. So in the absence of an 'uber-AI', I think it will have to have a 'bonus' of some sort (even if just informational to help in it's decision making).

Concerning diplomacy in MOO: Well, I agree that it was pretty weak in MOO2. My favorite for atmosphere and general play was the original MOO. I think the flavour of the music and facial expressions of the enemy leaders was priceless! http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif It added so much to the game. Sure, there werent a million options, but the options that WERE there meant something. How many of all of the options in SE4 have you actually seen accomplish anything? I've tried here and there to 'ask for help' or 'stop hostilities vs a friend' etc in SE4 and usually receive a generic blow-off or else they agree, but then dont follow through. Having tons of options that dont do much doesnt count for too much in my book. And the fact that all the AIs currently 'act' the same makes them feel bland and stale after a while. At least the races in MOO (not as much in MOO2 though) all felt unique and had to be dealt with in different ways.

And FWIW, MOO/MOO2 were remarkably stable for me and the folks I played with (including by modem in MOO2).

Would I rather play SE3 than MOO2? Yes, I sure would. SE3 was a fantastic leap ahead and the ability to customize the enemy races and have them react more or less 'in character' was one its greatest strengths IMO.

And for me, I play with 5000 racial points, but only use 1k or 2k of the points. This gives the AI a decided advantage in that department and I think its sorely needed.

Hmmm, no IMO, nuking the AI before I even meet it is the LEAST of my problems in this game. In fact, whenever I encounter an opposing race I'm usually BEGGING for them to be hostile right off the bat. Its far more challenging than when they come groveling for treaties every other turn. Sure, I can (and do) turn them down, but IMO, they should have some fight in them on their own, especially the ones like 'violent berserkers' etc.

Yes, the combat AI in the SE series is pretty decent as long as there are no complex situations. MOO2 got around this by having a butt-simple combat system in which only the bigger and better direct fire weapons were worth much. This made their combat AI work OK. There wasnt much else to do except move forward and mass firepower, something it did a fair job of. SE's combat is far more diverse and I'm far more willing to cut it some slack in that department. Again, there are just too many permutations for a standard AI programmer to have it perform optimally. No problems there IMO, just make sure it has enough ships in the right places and its off to a good start.

Anyways, there is nothing shockingly new here. Its a simple restatement of the way people are currently perceiving the game. I am still enjoying it immensely due the ability to mod and tweak. If I couldnt or didnt have the time, I probably would have ceased playing as well. The stock AI in the stock game just doesnt hold the interest for too terribly long.

I dont mean for this post to be negative or 'bashing' the game. Overall, I think its great. With some more work, I'm sure it will be even better. Luckily, MM and SG seem commited to continuing that work.

Finally, dont be afraid to pick on us. http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif I think most of us are big boys and girls and can handle ourselves just fine. Its all a matter of opinions in here and everyone is entitled to their own.

Talenn

Re: What now????
 

Hi all,

after reading with surprise how many folks here, think in the same way like me, i haver say something to this discussion:

I never did an Ai coding - this must be very hard to do - yes - but, it can done!!

Well, my baseline is MoO2 - the diplomacy, the characters of the enemies/allies, the strategic AI - really well done!! O.k., now in SE4, there is much more implementet, things a always wanted to have - but, the essential thing, the AI is to weak, much to weak. Btw, i like to play against the computer, cause in a such long-time game like SE4, i don´t know how it should work to play by E-mail. It is even now excuse, to say: "If you don´t like the Ai, play against a human". Also doing my own AI could be a funny thing, but as i said, i don´t know how, and when i should do this - this is the job of the programmers.

Don´t get me wrong (again), i know, that the AI is never as good as a human, but if the Ai here would have only a little more "intelligence", the game would still be my favourite. THIS, i mean the tweaking of the AI, should be the first job to do at the moment. Give it the possibility to use all the compenents, wich are implented in the game, give it the right behavior in strategy... and, this game would rock!!!!

(One of the most famous things for me, was the decision of BTS, to code an (nearly perfect) AI for their Combat Mission game - this is the best AI i´ve ever seen - so, their success as an "independent label" was born by doing it so - not 3D-Graphics, not warsimulation - the AI is the secret of their success.)

I hope MM will work on this. I won´t - ´cause i´m "only" a customer with all good wishes for them and their/my game.

Greetings to all

Jochen

Re: What now????
 

What will often help an A.I. to defeat human
players (in just about any game) is giving
it the ability to process information in such
a way that gives it an advantage, but at the
same time that information processing would
be far too tedious for a human to engage in.
AI's in such situations excel.

This is one of the reasons Imperialism II was
such a bastard to beat. I'm in favor of
allowing a little "AI cheating," as long as
the cheating is mostly related to the AI
having information that a human player might
not have. There's good rationale for this:
human players have intuition and can make
good guesses. Computers can't.

Not yet, anyway. http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

C//

Re: What now????
 

I think the AI's new intolerence for pushy human players (as mentioned in the Up To Date Beta thread) will help make the game more difficult. One of the problems now is that it is too easy for the human player to pick his (or her) battles. I'm rarely forced into a multi-front battle until the Mega Evil Empire setting kicks in. If the AI had more of a tendancy to start fights when they aren't convenient for the human players, it'd be a more difficult opponent.

Re: What now????
 

An AI needn't cheat to win.

Humans are not perfect: An AI can be. This constant idea that AIs can't be smart is just... Well, junk.

Given enough data, an AI can soundly beat a human. Can you ever beat an AI at chess? C'mon.

the only difference here is that the AI doesn't quite know what everything does. It's not even programmed yet to make decisions based upon the universe, but just random chance! That's not AI, that's just... Random.

The computer plays a pretty straight game in tactical combat... If I don't have some sort of advantage in the combat, I'll lose. I'm fairly sure none of you are any better than that. You're going in with hog-wild ships and then saying the AI is dumb, when you obviously outclass it. Try going up against the AI ship that has missiles when you've just got guns. You'll get trounced if you don't have initiative. And I noticed the AI seems to run it's own ships better than a player's... What's with that? :P

But really, until the AI is making decisions based upon the planets within range, what they can do, and making raids rather than just shoving pieces around the board randomly, of course the AI will suck... Because it certainly is A, but it ain't I.

Humans play their games based upon sound rules. It wouldn't be that hard to write them into the game. ...Getting the to work, and have the data for the AI to be able to manage it, that's another thing entirely.

And PS: MOO2 sucked. Small universes, repetitive animations (What's the difference between the same animation twenty times over and a bitmap? The bitmaps is faster, cheaper, and easier to ignore), races that really didn't do anything 'different' than each other, at least when it came to declaring war.

C'mon, really, did you want SE4 next year, after a year of AI tweaking, or did you want it now, when you can play against each other, and learn to make mods? I've been waiting for SE4 all year... And I'm perfectly happy with it.

Crissa

------------------
Crissa Kentavr
Lost Girls

Re: What now????
 

I've seen quite a few battles where, in tactical combat, I'll do FAR better than an AI with the same forces.

I once ran a test involving something like 2 heavy carriers and a few DNs for escort, attacking several identical DNs. Under my control, the carriers won hands down: complete obliteration of enemy force. With the AI controlling both sides, the defenders win hands-down, obliterating the carrier force with no losses. Conclusion: Micro-manage fighter combat. It has no understanding of holding back waves, or 'recycling' fired rocket-fighters to soak up PD so that unused RFs can fire unharmed, or using ships as decoys so big guns impact on ship shields, not fighter swarms.

In smaller galaxies before CSMs were boosted in speed, I routinely used an escort with one CSM I to destroy an escort with one CSM I by the obvious run-while-firing-out-yer-rear tactic.

I've used *1* DN, with no weapon of any range above 7, to defeat a fleet of *7* DNs and a CA, with range-16 seeker parasites and range-8 beams, partly because the AI doesn't understand when missiles are useless.

Also, it still doesn't take full advantage move-fire-move, which is a must when taking on a planet protected with 30 weapon platforms with range-8 beams and range-16 speed-5 missiles... something that can be done with zero risk w/ a speed-6 ship w/ range-7 beams, but only in tactical.

It's really not that good, tactically, as of the first patch...

------------------
-- The thing that goes bump in the night

Re: What now????
 

It's funny; you conclude that you should
micro manage fighters, where, in a game
against the A.I., I conclude that all games
should be strategic. Why would someone want
an ADDITIONAL advantage against the A.I.?

C//

Re: What now????
 

Taqwus,

Since MM is working on the game I'll defend them.

Personally I think you are asking too much from the AI at this stage of the game. Also considering that this game runs on home PC rather than a Cray or Deep Blue a human player will allways have an advantage in tactical combat. How could a AI micromanage a large fleet of fighters like it seems you do? An AI improves as it plays others and learns from experience. This AI is under the constraints. MM wanted to get the game out and running, so while the Ai may not be much of a challenge for you try playing other human players. Have you uped the AI bonuses in the game you are playing? That does make a difference too.

Sorry this game doens't met your expectations as of yet but give it time.



------------------
Seawolf on the prowl

Re: What now????
 

The AI is getting better at tactical combat but still flubs now & then. It's programmed to fire missiles & then run away, for example, but occasionally runs TOWARDS the enemy it just fired at instead of away. Duh! I've slaughtered more than a few Jraenar ships because of that goof. The latest beta, as the info file posted in another thread here states, is supposed to have improved tactical combat. I've got to get into contact with some major rivals in my new game and see how it goes now. I did have one serious contest with a neutral that I stumbled across shortly after starting the game. They were in the adjacent system, and even though they only had 20 turns or so start they were suprisingly tough.

Re: What now????
 

One improvement would be if the fighters didn't go tearing off towards the enemy until all were launched, or other ships on the same side do. Going piecemeal is a good way to get diced... especially against a PD-heavy fleet, because PD now targets a finite number with high precision (an alternative: PD fires w/ fairly low probability to hit, but for EVERY incoming seeker/fighter). But for now, fighters are much more potent massed, and with a keen eye on enemy PD count.

If it could hide its attitude, it'd also gain a bit methinks; right now, once your score hits 500k+ (possible to do quickly even w/ a single armed ship, if you go econ-happy), you know that you still haven't tripped 'evil empire' status until they go Murderous -- and once they do, you still have a few turns warning methinks. Add an Intel op to discover their "true" impression if need be; you may *think* they like you, but... I'm also tempted to think that the racial traits maybe should be hidden, which would slightly help AIs since people are much better at deducing a possible playing style from the traits...

I suspect the AI may not analyze ships as often as it should; saw a fleet running around w/ Org-6 weapons, and a ship that I'd captured and gave to them, that IIRC had Org-10 weapons. Hyper-plasma V, anyway, versus the much worse Lightning Ray III. Something to check for whenever it receives a ship that's a gift, or it captures one. A bit odd, since analyzing for a new tech is usually a plus. If it doesn't have any tech you can't learn (e.g. you've gotten a ship w/ WMGs and a Talisman, and you're not religious... might actually want to keep it, then), then it's almost certainly a plus, unless you're absolutely, critically low on resources and you'd prefer to scrap it.

------------------
-- The thing that goes bump in the night

Re: What now????
 

The latest AI in the beta code is doing much better - much more aggressive and much better organized. MM is working hard on it - and it is starting to come together. The next patch to the public should make alot of people happy.

Re: What now????
 

I´m happy to hear, that MM is working on the AI. Perhaps, the whole discussion could be avoided in the future.

Greetings to all!

Jochen

Re: What now????
 

Jochen, no matter how good an AI get's there will always be an Überplayer somewhere that can beat it and that will complain about the AI being a pushover while the vast majority of mere mortals are being ground into dust by the same AI.

But still, it's good to hear the AI is being worked on. I don't consider myself an Überplayer but so far it's been kind of a pushover for me.

[Edit] Fixed some spelling. Strange I can edit after this long. http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

[This message has been edited by Jubala (edited 13 December 2000).]