Starbases and Satellites useless
 

Using Space Bases (stations, battlestations, starbases) seems pointless. They cannot move and (unlike MOO2) are easily avoided. If they could even move 1 or 2 spaces in orbit around the planet they would be better... As it stands they are not worth making.

This seems to be the case with satellites as well - for much the same reason. They are stationary and easily avoided.

Has someone already brought this up with MM?

What are other people's thoughts??

Jason2

Re: Starbases and Satellites useless
 

I've found Satellites to be extremely useful as they cost little and require no upkeep. In fact, I've removed them as a 'starting tech' because it was just so easy to mass them up and prevent any forms of early aggression. Note that this is from a multiplayer POV as judging against the AI is not really worth it.

Starbases etc, I tend to agree on. We've upped the 'range bonus' of the Base Mounts a bit to help give them some power and have also reduced the maintenance cost down to 30% instead of 50%. This has helped somewhat, but we still usually only see orbital shipyards and not too many defensive bases.

I'm not sure what the solution is at this point. Maybe limited mobility would solve the problem but it would seem sort of odd at best.

Talenn

Re: Starbases and Satellites useless
 

¨Satellites are good for many things, I'm dropping sensor satellites in EVERY system in the galaxy that I don't control (yet). The are cloaked of courseand are excellent scout Posts since the give information on every single enemy ship move.

Bases, I don't use them to much anymore except for shipyards. My frOnline is always moving and It's better to have defensive battle fleet. But I still like them, they are very good to have.

Re: Starbases and Satellites useless
 

A Talisman-equipped Starbase w/ massive-mount weapons is something to be feared, since it'll hit every time before most ship-borne weapons get a chance to fire. And if the SB has engine-destroying weapons, repulser beams (which will fling you back up to 30 squares or so...), and so forth, and is backed by missile-toting WPs, the attacking ships will need to number quite a few to have much of a chance.

Plasma V-carrying satellites could be a nasty surprise at a warp point. They've a combat speed of 6, meaning they'll outrun most ships, and they'll be in firing range first turn.

It's probably possible to add a component for either which grants a small amount of bonus combat movement (only), using the same ability as given to afterburners. This seems more reasonable for satellites than bases, but even a base perhaps should be able to (expensively) get a combat speed of 1, at basically no supply cost.

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-- The thing that goes bump in the night

Re: Starbases and Satellites useless
 

Sats: These are excellent quickie warp point defenses. Send a transport or two loaded with 'em and they can make a mess. I never use them for planetary defense though, as they tend be positioned poorly and the AI smashes the planet without taking them out.

Bases: Defense bases are only useful if you are on the defense and need to keep the comp out of your territory. I've only had one game where this was the case, and 4 space stations with DUCs proved to be a formidable early/mid-game warp point defense. With the AI in its current state, however, it is rare to not be on the offensive smashing through its systems, which of course makes fixed defenses unnecessary.

Re: Starbases and Satellites useless
 

maybe im a prick for doing this, but i like to send a construction ship to a warp point (or stack thereof) and have it build a starbase or two, which will in turn sit there and build fighters or mines or sats or whatever. i tend to prefer fighters and mines though, unless against the AI (where the whole concept just becomes far too rude).

Re: Starbases and Satellites useless
 

I have developed pretty much the same views as Jason regading satellites.

I tend to sit off at long range and destroy them with capital missiles. Later, once PD weapons become available, they become useful when used in large numbers. How many do you satellite builders usually build at a time?

I like the idea of the shipyard station station and the cloaked satellites. Does any one ever retrofit old transports as carriers? They are 1 mp slower of course but still quite useful..

Re: Starbases and Satellites useless
 

hmm... I guess I'm one of the few to build lots of bases... My homeworlds normally have 1 or 2 spaceyards & 1 or 2 defense bases (varies dpending on max size researched)... beyond that portals direct into the heart of enemy territory get stations (as they make much better guards than sats). Their is just no equal to true defensive power to the Starbase, I mean sure a few hundred sats or a couple baseships could do the job... but not with as much style...

Re: Starbases and Satellites useless
 

yeah, i would like to add a comment about the statement that bases are ineffective due to the fluid nature of the front line.

sure a base will always sit in the same sector. the wormhole wont. sure stacked wormholes to your interior worlds have defensive issues if they are penetrated. heres what I like to do:

2 gateway systems (per front). one leads to your core systems, and is moderatly defended (internal gateway). the other leads to frontier systems via stacked wormhole and some heavy static defenses (external gateway). as the frontier moves, move the wormholes with it. put a conquered system behind the internal gateway once its conqured, and cut off its direct access to other systems. add a new wormhole to the defended stack at the external gateway to attach to wherever the new 'front' is.

and uh, try not to fight a war on more than 8 fronts or so from the same system, unless you are the "heir to the throne of the kindom of idiots," as Londo would say http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/ima...ons/icon12.gif

Re: Starbases and Satellites useless
 

I agree the cloaked spy satellites work well - you can keep tabs on all the systems you dont inhabit.

In combat -I find satellites are only worthwhile if they are sporting seekers and/or PDC for defense of a planet from your opponents seekers and fighters.

I rarely build a base other than as repair facilities on the front lines, usually just space stations. They can also act as my resupply base when I dont have a planet nearby- just join up with them as a fleet.
I also use them when I build ring worlds and dyson spheres.
Occasionally I will build the symbolic "I built one" battle ready star base.

Re: Starbases and Satellites useless
 

Something that makes bases better in tactical combat is that they have a range modifier on the mounts (massive mounts can reach pretty far now)

Re: Starbases and Satellites useless
 

They'd work just fine if A) They'd orbit the planet/warp point two squares out, and stations where placed around a planet, not in a group on the wrong side.

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I AM Canadian.

Re: Starbases and Satellites useless
 

I tend to use bases either as space yard facilities or warp point defenses. You can crank out a space station pretty quickly and the resupply capacity can be nice when moving into a nice plumb enemy system.

Something I don't completely understand about base placement in combat is why they start so far away from planets they are supposed to orbit. I suppose it makes it look a bit nicer to have some space but, considering the scale of the planets, wouldn't they be right snug up against the planet graphics if actually in orbit? And wouldn't that help, when combined with their new range enhancements, to make them more useful for defending those planets?

I just had a wicked idea. I wonder if you could use tractor beam ships to "tow" enemy ships into range of a base's weaponry? Nasty!

Re: Starbases and Satellites useless
 

Tractor Beams need a much longer range, they're completely useless when the emeny is already within "can't miss" range.

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I AM Canadian.

Re: Starbases and Satellites useless
 

In strategic combat, missle satelites are useful for giving a cheap defense to a planet early in the game. Missle ships cannot target them, but must avoid their missles.

Best use of bases is to give you multiple production queues at one point in space. You find this more useful against human players where the front-line is much more static. Once you have enough ship building bases in orbit, you can scrap the ship yard facility and use the slot for something else. When you don't need to build anyships, you can mothball the bases to save on resources. If you need the faster planetary queue for emergencies, then you are letting your enemy get to close to your planet and one or two Last minute builds will probably not save your planet anyway.

Satelites and Bases are useless at a warp-point because fleets can choose to ignore them with their battle plans! The only things useful at a warp-point to keep your enemy out are mines, fighers, and ships.

Re: Starbases and Satellites useless
 

"Satelites and Bases are useless at a warp-point because fleets can choose to ignore them with their battle plans! The only things useful at a warp-point to keep your enemy out are mines, fighers, and ships."

Quite true regarding the battle plans, however...

Drop some mines, then place a base and/or satellites. The enemy must stop to deal with the mines. Put fighter bays in the base and some decent weapons and you'll maintain true control of the warp point. Additionally, throwing a Shipyard/Repair bay means you can build and mothball a mine layer for after battle re-seeding. Tossing in a low-tech Solar Panel for energy reduces your resupply needs considerablly too...