Posts are backwards why?
 

Hi,

I expect this isn't the first time someone's asked, but reading the Dominions Boards I am again reminded why I find these Boards a pain.

Why is there no option to sort Posts by time, so I could put oldest Messages first? I've looked several times (especially when I was avidly playing SE4) and never found such a setting. If there is one, I profusely apologize.

I'd really, really like to know why newest Posts are first on the Boards. REALLY.

I'm sorry if this comes across as harsh, but it just really irritates me every time I have to deal with the Boards here.

Thank you,
V'ger gone

Re: Posts are backwards why?
 

Richard has announced a new Version of UBB will be rolled out within the next few weeks. I can't remember what he's said, if anything, about specific features it has, but maybe he can let us know if date/time sorting will be support/enabled.

[ October 10, 2003, 01:48: Message edited by: Psitticine ]

Re: Posts are backwards why?
 

I don't think the sorting will be enabled, and to be honest it isn't being switched because most folks on the Boards like it like this now.

We would just piss the other half of the board off if we changed it http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif .

Re: Posts are backwards why?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Within a given thread, you can view the individual Posts that way - at the lower-left hand corner of the screen is an option labeled "Printer-friendly view of this topic" with a printer icon next to it. If you follow that link, all the Posts in the thread will be listed from oldest post to most recent post.

Re: Posts are backwards why?
 

Hi Jack,

Thank you, I found out about that crucial little icon on sissypigs about 5 nanoseconds after I posted this, so now I'm happier than I was. Thing I DON'T understand is why we don't have an OPTION to sort however we like. That way, everybody's happy. Well, as happy as we can be. (As in, you'll never please everyone.)

I've been on computers since the days of IBM 360s and I've never liked newest first listings. It's just plain counter-intuitive. It's one of the reasons I'm still on Usenet.

Anyhow, here's hoping the next incarnation of these Boards lets us choose our poison.

Ciao,
V'ger gone

Re: Posts are backwards why?
 

Ditto, these backwards forums drive me nuts. I love lots of the games here but have to go elsewhere for forums that dont hurt my brain.

Re: Posts are backwards why?
 

Why is it such a big deal? Read threads one way, read them the other way, makes no difference! The content is still the same. And, you can always use the "print" Version of threads to read them in the more common order.

Re: Posts are backwards why?
 

It just really bugs me. And the printer-friendly thing adds a bunch of extra mouse-clicks to read/post which is just as bad.

Just a polite request to give us the option to view Posts in a manner conforming to the default setting of most other internet Boards. I own / maintain a UBB board myself so I know it is possible.

Re: Posts are backwards why?
 

Conformity is not all it is cracked up to be... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: Posts are backwards why?
 

<bump>

Re: Posts are backwards why?
 

An empty post. Interesting.

Re: Posts are backwards why?
 

I like the backwards sorting.... but I also like Tiltowaits cute blood slave avatar. She certainly makes a tough case.

Re: Posts are backwards why?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Hypothetically...
Lets say you eat at McDonalds and if they start tossing your hamburgers into a blender that shouldn't make a difference to you either. You're still getting all the nutrients from the food.

THE POINT is that these backward Posts are about as annoying as hamburgers going into a blendor or opening a book to find the Last page is the first.

Re: Posts are backwards why?
 

Dominiona is a nice game

mfg Eric

Re: Posts are backwards why?
 

I must say that it is very disconcerting and painful to read the Posts backwards. Roughly 99% of forums (including every other UBB board I've ever seen) go oldest to newest. I suppose if you're used to this way then you like it... then let us individually choose. But it's kind of silly. Like reading right to left. Or starting a book on the Last page, thus spoiling the ending.

Please please please change the forum so it reads properly oldest to newest, or at least let me change it for myself.

-Andy

Re: Posts are backwards why?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">This cant be an accurate statement.

How could anywhere NEAR half of the forum readers prefer the backwards sorting? No other forum is like this...

Please. For the love of all that is good and holy...fix the sorting.

olaf

Re: Posts are backwards why?
 

I for one like it the way it is much better. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Posts are backwards why?
 

[repost from Dominions II forum]

Put me down on the "I hate it" list too.

I browse 20+ forums a day and trying to "change gears" in this forum is a constant irritant for me.

Re: Posts are backwards why?
 

Yes the cavallary has arrived, the backwords sorting is wretched and gives me headaches ;p

Re: Posts are backwards why?
 

I read MANY forums every day, and it is irritating to have to go through everything backwards here. TO figure out where you Last post left off, you have to first scroll down, and then start scrolling up to get back to where you started. Also, you ncna't just start reading from the top (which is faster) because most Posts refer to the previous Posts. Most people http://www.shrapnelgames.com/cgi-bin...;f=67;t=000024 do not like this, and it is very UNPROFESSIONAL to have a forum that is ***-backwards from every other normal forum on Earth. I love shrapnelgames, but this forum system just screams incompetance... especially when you COULD have the option to sort.

Re: Posts are backwards why?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">If the forums ran the "normal" way, you'd have to scroll down through all the Posts you've already read to find the new ones, and load another page(s) on threads that run more than one page. On high volume Boards, the current way is actually more efficient, IMO.

I've seen other Boards run latest post first; I myself don't have any trouble "switching gears".

Re: Posts are backwards why?
 

What other Boards run latest post first? I have never seen one that sorts like this one does.

olaf

Re: Posts are backwards why?
 

If the forums ran the normal way, there'd be a link to take you directly to the oldest post you haven't yet read.

Besides, even on this forum, when you come to a thread you still have to go hunting for the Last post you read. That may or may not be on the first page. Unless (I suppose) you are browsing this board every 10 minutes all day...

Mark me down as someone else who finds the current format irritating.

Re: Posts are backwards why?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">And there is exactly this link too on this board. Look at the little blue arrow in the upper left corner.

Re: Posts are backwards why?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">This cant be an accurate statement.

How could anywhere NEAR half of the forum readers prefer the backwards sorting? No other forum is like this...

Please. For the love of all that is good and holy...fix the sorting.

olaf </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Actually, it is.

If you want Posts in the other order, hit the Printer Friendly button. It will display oldest to newest.

Re: Posts are backwards why?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">This cant be an accurate statement.

How could anywhere NEAR half of the forum readers prefer the backwards sorting? No other forum is like this...

Please. For the love of all that is good and holy...fix the sorting.

olaf </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Actually, it is.

If you want Posts in the other order, hit the Printer Friendly button. It will display oldest to newest. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Sorry, I dont buy it. Somebody set up a poll.

The printer friendly view is better than nothing, but you have to hit it for every thread, and the individual Messages arent as readable due to making them...printer friendly.

Re: Posts are backwards why?
 

Make sure to direct people in all of the various subforums to the poll, as most people do not read this forum Category very often, if at all.

Re: Posts are backwards why?
 

"THE POINT is that these backward Posts are about as annoying as hamburgers going into a blendor or opening a book to find the Last page is the first."

I agree entirely. I find the way this board is set, presently, especially irritating and somewhat frustrating. I admit some people may like it, but I think a vast amount of people would prefer the normal way and I believe the code should be modified or changed.

Re: Posts are backwards why?
 

Another problem is you can't link toa particular post, because by the time someone reads the link, it might be on a different page! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon8.gif

personally I say, why not just make it a user option? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/rolleyes.gif

Re: Posts are backwards why?
 

I would think that the systems administrator for Shrapnel and people that have been visiting these forums a lot for years would have a more accurate feel for what the majority might think on an issue like this.

Re: Posts are backwards why?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Yes you can. See that nifty yellow note with a push pin in it icon at the top left corner of every post? Click on it. It gives a URL for that particular post. Just delete the ;p=1 part and it will work forever. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ February 02, 2004, 23:16: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

Re: Posts are backwards why?
 

I also like the newest first format.

Although it might be more due to the fact that I visit several times a day so I already know what most threads contain.

Re: Posts are backwards why?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">The "people who have been visiting these forums for years" are a self selected sample, how many people do you think didn't like it and never returned?

The "Printer-friendly" option is not optimal as it forces you to download the message again, increasing the tedium for us dialup cripples.

Otherwise, remembering the failed upgrade of the board software just after Dom2 came out, does anyone know if he plans to try again?

Re: Posts are backwards why?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Not very many. Most people that have come to these forums over the years have not been so fickle as to leave just because they did not like the sorting order. The content is what matters, not the sorting order.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">True, but it is an option.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">The only thing that failed was getting the uploading script to work with the new forum script upgrade. Nothing else was a failure there.

Also, there is always the "end" key that will move the page to the bottom, preventing any doubled scrolling efforts at all. Doing this as well as using the Jump to New Posts link on every single thread page, helps a lot.

[ February 02, 2004, 23:47: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

Re: Posts are backwards why?
 

Sorry but the sorting order does matter.

I think most people would prefer the traditional newest Last. I say this with a lot of confidence based on the fact that no other board I have ever visited has a default sorting order of newest first.

I think the ideal solution would be to let the user select his/her preference in the my profile section.

olaf

Re: Posts are backwards why?
 

Yes, that would be the ideal solution. But, most people here on Shrapnel do not share your views that it is horrible and that it is even relevant. The content is much more important than the sorting order. You may not like the reasons for it, but others do. The common way not always the best way. There are other forums out there that sort Posts in newest to oldest order. Most of the better forum software packages support sorting in both orders.

[ February 03, 2004, 00:39: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

Re: Posts are backwards why?
 

There are some good sorting features on other Boards:

- One button with normal thread from oldest zu newest.

- Additional Follow-the-Big-Thread Button when the site has more then 1 page. If you press this button the newest Posts will be displayed first.

It works very fine on www.wallstreet-Online.de The greatest german community board for shares/investments

Re: Posts are backwards why?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Not very many. Most people that have come to these forums over the years have not been so fickle as to leave just because they did not like the sorting order. The content is what matters, not the sorting order.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Non sequitur.

And if Shrapnel is foolish enough to ignore irate customers to satisfy someones ego over these bass-ackwards forums, they deserve what they get. I for one avoided them for years (though I occassionally purchased a Shaprnel game) and the second a good dominions 2 forum starts up elsewhere, I will be gone again- the people here are nice but it's always irritating to visit them.

Re: Posts are backwards why?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">So what do they get? I really think we should come back to earth. We are just talking about the sorting of the Posts and now people are talking about leaving the forum for good. Don't you think this is a bit over the top?

Re: Posts are backwards why?
 

Hi All:

Sorry some of you have problems with the sorting order. We have done this so that we may provide better support. It is much easier for us to see the new Posts quickly than to go through many pages of Posts to get to the new. And after 4 1/2 years, we now consider it the norm as most of our forum members do.

We have new software that I believe will allow you to choose the way you would like the Posts to be presented. We tried to install this and found the conVersion to be a long drawn out process. With three new releases (Coliseum, Dominions II and Starfury), we just can't have the forums down for a week to 10 days right now. The new Users rely on information here to learn and better understand the games.

Once things settle down a bit and we can find the time we will upgrade the software, but that won't happen anytime real soon.

If you must leave us because of the way the Posts are presented, we will hate to see you go. Hope you try us again in the future.

Happy Gaming!

Re: Posts are backwards why?
 

I am going to have to throw my two cents in here. While it may be difficult for you and your current board readership to switch to a new topic, it's certainly hard as hell to completely redefine something that we've all learned since we were toddlers: that you read from top to bottom. Reading up is a huge hurdle to getting involved in these forums and your games. Obviously it's your board and you've got a way of doing things you're happy with; just consider that you're placing a hurdle to customer retention by trying to train people to read from bottom-to-top instead of the natural way.

Re: Posts are backwards why?
 

If fixing the post order is on your work queue, that's all I can ask -- obviously paying the bills is more important than this stuff. I would definite put in a strong request to upgrade when you have time available though!

Re: Posts are backwards why?
 

In any case, it seems like most of the Users would prefer to have at least the option to use normal sorting, according to the sorting poll. Myself included, as I find transitions between Shrapnel and any other forum after reading lots of stuff here rather confuzing. Having to shuffle up and down in threads with long Posts is also somewhat annoying. On the plus side, though, this is one of those rather few forums where interesting threads appear regularly.

Re: Posts are backwards why?
 

Having the choice is great, but it would more than likely require the forum to be down for a significant period of time while they update the features. As we all know a down day at a busy forum can cost a company $$$ bucks and loose membership.

I like the the forum system as it is now. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Posts are backwards why?
 

I like the way this forum works.

It is against the mainstream, like the games that are sold here.

Re: Posts are backwards why?
 

The setup choices seem to be for ease of moderation. Not unusual for forums that expect rare Posts with few answers. Kindof a Customer Support setup. Most of the forums here seem to reflect that it was a perfectly reasonable choice. It looks like its only Space Empires, and moving up fast Dominions 2, which make it a problem. Those are spawning the kinds of traffic seen in general public conversation webBoards. Newsgroup levels of traffic.

IF the new Version of the board can be installed without loss of the content already in the forums, and it offers Users a choice, then Im all for it.

Re: Posts are backwards why?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">As I stated when that poll was created, it is irrelevant because it was not promoted to other forums on Shrapnel, so it did NOT receive a valid sample of votes from the forum membership. It was only voted on by those that happened to stumble in here, which most people do not.

Re: Posts are backwards why?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">As I stated when that poll was created, it is irrelevant because it was not promoted to other forums on Shrapnel, so it did NOT receive a valid sample of votes from the forum membership. It was only voted on by those that happened to stumble in here, which most people do not. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Over in the Dominions2 forum we started pointing people this way when they start a thread on it. I had thought most of the forums where this conversation came up alot were doing the same. I guess we could post a note in the Moderators forum suggesting that.

Re: Posts are backwards why?
 

There was never any mention in the Se4 forum. That is a rather large chunk of the forum membership right there that never heard of this poll...

Re: Posts are backwards why?
 

I hate your forums.

I read them every day, and it bothers me every day. If there was ANYWHERE else to get decent conversation about Dominions 2, I would leave forever and not come back. I don't care that your older Users like it this way, I want to look at them the way I am accustomed to, and I really don't care why they are this way. Only the unbelievably addictive nature of Dominions 2 keeps me here.

I am a good customer. I paid for your game, I never bothered tech support. All I want is a few patches and some Boards I can read without effort. If you can fix it without bothering your old Users, great. But it seems that those posting here don't seem to care that it inconveniences us, so I really couldn't care less if sorting properly would suddenly irritate them. Frankly the "just deal with it" crowd in this thread would be justly rewarded for that point of view by just dealing with it done the standard way.

- An annoyed reader of these forums