Tien Chi
 

Is there any chance we could get a little more info on this new nation. I know it has a chinese/oriental theme, but what kind of units do they have? (Samurai? - oh wait that's Japanese) and what kind of magic do they wield?

Re: Tien Chi
 

Hm I bet that astral or nature. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ September 29, 2003, 13:22: Message edited by: Mortifer ]

Re: Tien Chi
 

You didn't have Tien Chi in DOM I????

I could have sworn that they were there. Ok, here is something about them

Default theme:
They have a wide choice of units ranging from light infantry to heavy infantry, archers (2 types - armored and unarmored) and crossbowmen. They have cavalry (light and heavy too) and most of their cavalry has bows too. They use Composite bows, which are right in between short and long bows in damage and range. Basically their troops do not excel in anything but they have a wide choice of troops and that makes them "Jack of all trades" even more then Man.
But if you think that this is their strength you are wrong. They are extremely powerful in magic and in fact I believe they have most powerful magic Users in game (not counting pretenders of course) - Celestial Masters (His stats are posted little lower). Of course they cost a lot as well. They have cheaper magic Users as well and good commanders which are mostly armed with composite bows too so they don't just stand behind troops doing nothing.
Also, they can use unique magic available only to them - summoning celestial troops. Basically, only celestial masters and pretender can summon such troops which are quite strong (I'll leave it a secret of what they are). However, they can use this only in default theme.

They also have 2 additional themes – “Spring and Autumn” and “Barbarian Kings”.

Spring and Autumn:
In this theme they get much less troop selection but they get even more powerful magic Users. Celestial Masters are most powerful in this theme - 1 Fire, 1 Air, 2 Water, 3rd level Priest, 2 Random picks and can fly (in default they get only 1 random pick and can't fly). Also master of five ways appears (has 1 level in each elemental magic), master of dead (death 1 and priest), and master of the way (water and priest, he’s there in default theme too). Also they get Lord, which is basically chariot commander with good stats.
In Barbarian Kings most troops are replaced with mounted barbarian (Mongol like) troops also armed with composite bows and very fast. They have less powerful magic in this theme but their military is stronger. In this theme they also get Khan - very powerful mounted commander, which is both great fighter, has bow and commands 75 men.

All in all Tien Chi are one of most interesting races in game - at least for me. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ September 29, 2003, 14:32: Message edited by: Daynarr ]

Re: Tien Chi
 

wow sounds cool! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Re: Tien Chi
 

Aaack! My acidic saliva is destroying my keyboard!

Now, tell us about Machaka and Mictlan!
(They aren't in Dominions I)

Re: Tien Chi
 

I would think that there over reliance on archery make them a bit predictable. cast arrow fend, and they are much screwed.

Re: Tien Chi
 

Who said they are relying on archers?
They seem to have a good mix of units...

Re: Tien Chi
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Sounds awesome. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: Tien Chi
 

Actually they will suffer less from arrow fend then Man troops, but it WILL help against Tien Chi anyway. At least they will have to engage you in close combat. They mostly rely on MAGIC and they have a lot of choices there. Also, they have troops with Glaive (10 damage, 4 range but attack and defense suffers) to tackle enemy mounted troops and cavalry of there own (heavy cavalry too). Of course if you lack air wizards Tien Chi archers and crosbows are gonna walk all over you. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: Tien Chi
 

Ok, but please, tell us about Mictlan!
*drools, melting holes to floor*

Barbarian Kings sounds awesome, though...
Just imagine Khans with Chain Mails of Displacement and Bows of War...

[ September 29, 2003, 15:18: Message edited by: Nerfix ]

Re: Tien Chi
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Unfortunately, I haven’t played much with Miticlan (still on my "to do" list) so I can't say much about them. I only know that they rely on blood magic and need sacrifices to increase their domain. OTOH they have a structure at the start that gives them 3 blood slaves each turn (so they can perform these sacrifices very easily). I'll leave other testers and devs to fill it in about this quite unusual, Aztec like race.

Re: Tien Chi
 

My my, i knew they have a home site that gives Blood Slaves...

Re: Tien Chi
 

Mictlan looks to be geared towards the more exprienced player and is IMO one of the most interesting nations.
The troops are primitive. Literally fighting with sticks and stones. However, they have three different holy tribal warriors that have different abilities. The eagle warrior can fly in combat, the jaguar warrior can shapechange, the sun warrior is the elite fighter (albeit not better armed than your average heavy infantry).
OTOH Mictlan has very powerful priests-mages: The High Priest of the Sun (Fire 2, Blood 3, Priest 4), Moon Priest (Astral 2, Blood 2, Priest 3), Rain Priest (Water 2, Blood 2, Priest 3), Priest King (Nature 2, Blood 2, Priest 3). Additionally two of the commanders can 'recruit' slaves (speak: more cannonfodder for your armies) for free.
Battles usually result in heavy losses, but can be replenished fast. I am sure experienced players can overcome the weak military with some nifty combos from the priests once the research has been done. And of course there will be lots of devils and demons to summon http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif .

Re: Tien Chi
 

Sweet, sweet, sweet!
I also knew that they will have somekind of Jaguar Warriors.
This game will so great!

Re: Tien Chi
 

Mictlan also need to sacrice blood slaves to keep their dominion going, which is why they start with the blood slave site.

Re: Tien Chi
 

I've only played once as Mictlan (so far) so I'm not exactly expert on them, but they are very cool. Their Tribal Kings can raise slave armies very quickly and their Blood magic is very potent. I quite liked their special troops, although they do require a bit more planning to use properly. They are more versatile but have less raw power then some of the other nations' special units, such as Marignon's Knights of the Chalice.

Machaka is another very interesting race. They have tribal warriors (rather Zulu-like in feel, I think) but are augmented with several varieties of spider-riding troops.

Their backstory tells of the corpse of a giant spider that lies deep within their sacred mountain. The swamps around their home are filled with giant spiders, and these spiders are trained as mounts in place of horses. Like the Atlantean War Lobsters, the spiders remain a danger even after their riders have been slain.

They have many magical units available as well. There are tribal shaman, plus a cult of dark priestesses who worship the giant spider corpse deep within the mountain. They are capable of transforming into spiders themselves as well as having powerful magic abilities.

Re: Tien Chi
 

Oooohhh, great. I can't wait to play this game!
Does Mictlan or Machaka have any special themes?

Re: Tien Chi
 

No special themes at the moment for Mictlan or Machaka, although they do have the variant themes such as Restless Worshippers and Golem Cult that are available to every nation.

Re: Tien Chi
 

Well, then i'll have to fix that!
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif
Oh, BTW, what does Restless Worshippers give you?

[ September 29, 2003, 19:14: Message edited by: Nerfix ]

Re: Tien Chi
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Im with you in this! Now that HL2 has been delayed, I need a game, but fast! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

I started to play Dom I. again, Im better now, standard comp cannot kick my ***! Mauhhaaa http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[ September 29, 2003, 19:29: Message edited by: Mortifer ]

Re: Tien Chi
 

I can feel the Illwinter Dominion expanding...

Re: Tien Chi
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I suppose you are not speaking of a special bonus long weapons would have against mounted troops? (thats would be interesting, but I can live without it).

They recall me of Man in fact, with their longbowmen early, then switching to air magic when time passes. But perhaps (I hope) this wont be mandatory in doms II to forget about archers after turn 30, as it seems it will be more difficult to be immune to arrows.

Can you remind us how was tweaked storm? Does it allow arrows to be fired?

Re: Tien Chi
 

Pocus, i am not a betatester, but i hope i have these rigth:
Yes, Dom II storms will let you to shoot arrows with halved range, if i remember correctly. And Arrow Fend has been "Wardised", I.E same gem cost, no whole batlefield effect.

[ September 29, 2003, 20:46: Message edited by: Nerfix ]

Re: Tien Chi
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">An interesting twist to Abysia http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
I'm not saying that they are not cool. I think that these 3 new races are really great.

Are the mages/priests as costly in doms II than in doms I? The problem is that you would pay an hefty sum for a lone unit which is more versatile true, but often used in a single role (either as a priest, or as a mage). For example Marignon is suffering from this, with Grand Master at 270 gp (6 levels of magery, priest 3), and Anathemant Dragon goes over the roof, with a cost of 360 GP (Abysian priest 4, fire 3), far too costly if you ask me.

Anyway, Abysia is perhaps my prefered race (my first pbem was with them, ouch I learned in the field!), as blood magic is really different from others path, and so .. so ... twisted http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: Tien Chi
 

I know Arrow Fend cost air gems (1 air gem i think). Arrow fend has effect on all your current units (not those you will summon later) and give them 80% air shield, not complete cover. It's very nasty against archers as I found out playing Man against Panganea.

Not sure about storm, as I use mostly heavy troops and don't care much about archers.

Re: Tien Chi
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Restless Worshippers is a rather nifty one. Your people are, well, restless. They automatically spread out as pilgrims, causing a more rapid spread of your Dominion. You need to have a Turmoil of at least +1 and spend 50 design points to get it, but it is worth it!

It's maybe a bit too easy to overlook the dominion themes available to everybody when designing a new god, especially when there's a nation-specific theme available, but they add a lot of variety to the game!

[ September 30, 2003, 02:23: Message edited by: Psitticine ]

Re: Tien Chi
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I'm starting to fear that a nasty doms I compulsive behavior will be back :

* You shall always have air magic capacity with your nation, either natively (random picks are ok)or with air magic on your pretender.

I really fear now that the supremacy of air magic is still there in doms II. We will discuss this in 3 months, but I can bet my skirt that air magic will still be THE magic which must not be left out.

Re: Tien Chi
 

You are probably right. I've noticed I make sure that my pretender has at least 1 level in air at the start of the game and not only for precision. Air is really useful for both support and damage and you get more accurate mage to use those things. However I don't think they were trying to nerf air but to empower other elements. Probably the best way to tackle air at the moment is earth. Iron will to improve magic resistance, and all kinds of powerful spells to improve protections of your melee troops. I think earth has sharp weapons spell (not sure if I got the name right), which will make weapons of your troops armor piercing. It helped against Panganea (that and blessing that was giving +4 protection to my sacred troops) even though they used both Arrow Fend and Mass Protection (they out researched me in both areas).

Re: Tien Chi
 

In Dom1, air was the most powerful battle magic because ALL lightning damage, which means all air spells, negated all armor. And as air elementals were/are ehtereal, flying, trampling AND have an armor-negating attack, they were/are the most powerful of all the elementals. Weapons of sharpness might let your troops hit the air elementals, but earth magic and the protection it gave did not help against lightning. Water magic was the weakest elemental path, and although it had some nice spells it couldn't challenge others. Fire was very good in battle, but air was very good in battle, outside of battle and while making items.
Fire can deal more damage, that's true, but:
a) it had a ward versus it that didn't need fire magic, air magic was the only way to fight air magic
b) Storm. Fire magic takes more fatique, archers cannot shoot, air magic/elemental/summons gets more powerful
c) Call of the Wind produced cheap patrollers, and few of them doubled the income of given province. And you could use them to get rid of enemy mages' gems. Atleast this is not so potent spell anymore.
d) Staff of Storms, Storm bows(armor negating, str = damage), lightning whips(armor neg. dmg=10), pocket ship, flying ship, air barrel, spirit helmet(1 free lighning bolt/turn)...

Have these changed? And how the other paths have become more powerful? And which paths you need to protect your armies from give element? I already now that wards only affect aobut 25 guys. Is there any spell that gives little protection versus all the elements? Repels elementals? Disables flying? Negates etherealness?

Maybe if the elemental paths could counter each other. Earth versus air, Air versus earth. At the moment, Air DOES negate the protection earth gives, so does earth have any spesific spell to hamper air magic? What about Fire/Water?

Re: Tien Chi
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I do not recall all changes but the changes listed below should answer some of your concerns. All wards that affect other units then the caster now only bestow 50% damage reduction or less, this is stackable with items and natural partial resistances though. Storm penalises missile fire but do not stop it alltogether. Patrolling to increase taxes is no longer a viable long term strategy since increased taxes kills off population. Since there is no more target enemy magic Users fliers have a somewhat reduced efficiency. A new nature and earth spell Gaias blessing bestows partial resistance to all elements and posion on the entire battlefield. All elementals, even lesser cost magic gems. Air elementals have reduced hitpoints.

Re: Tien Chi
 

In fact, I knew most of that... I just posted in here so that those who have not played DOM1 know what it was before... I should have said that though, and this might not even be needed. But, I had/have nothing to do...

There was some interesting information nonetheless. I didn't know about Gaea's blessing or partial resistances. Do all lesser elementals require the same amount of gems? And how many is that? And how many gems bigger ones need?

Re: Tien Chi
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Lesser 1 greater 2, there is also a set of new spells that summons several size 4 elementals at a higher research level.

Re: Tien Chi
 

Several medium elementals? WOW! That is something!
How much magic skill fo you need for it? And gems?

I'm going to love DOM II...