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The Random Map Generator and Maps
Okay, so I'm jumping in really, really late and everything, but I've a question:
What kind of files are the Dominions II maps? The original used targa image files, are Dominions II maps following this tradition? I'm asking because quite aside from Dominions II going to be the king of fantasy TBS games for the foreseeable future, if the map issue works like in the previous Version, I'd be buying the game just for this, because I would have use for an RMG like this literally for decades to come. Edi |
Re: The Random Map Generator and Maps
The map files are exactly the same format as they were in Dom 1 (TGA, or Targa). You can use maps made for Dom1, but you will need to delete colors in top-left corner for they have no purpose in Dom2 (they may cause game to generate province there). As far as I know, Dom2 supports much larger maps then Dom 1 so all maps need not be 800x600, in fact larger are preferred. Scripting files (.map) are different though with new commands and units so they need to be rewritten.
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Re: The Random Map Generator and Maps
*drool*
*insert bloody huge "WOOHOOOOOOO!!!!!!" here* *insert insanely long happy dance here* You know, you just made my day, Daynarr. Best news I've heard in a long, long time. You see, good RMGs with immediate out of the box printability are very rare, never mind ones that actually generate *graphical* maps, so Dominions II might actually have a niche market even outside strategy gaming circles for people who need maps, but aren't skilled with graphics tools and/or just plain drawing them by hand. Such as the traditional RPG gaming crowd (designing a campaign world map is a ****ing pain in the ***!), and even writers. Maps produced by people with the RMG are their property after all (just like the contents of text documents produced with MS Word are the author's property and not Microsoft's), and can be used for purposes *other* than playing Dominions II. I'm an aspiring writer who couldn't draw anything competently if his life depended on it, and maps (especially random ones) always give me tons of ideas. I'll be abusing the RMG mercilessly when I get Dominions II, in the meanwhile I'll be using the Dominions I RMG by Keldon Jones for those purposes. So, I'll be in a double debt to Illwinter, first for producing a kick-*** strategy game that curb-stomps everything else out there (including my all-time favorite, AoW, which is better than Dominions: PP&P in some respects but not quite as good overall), and now giving me tools that I've been coveting for *years*. I've also got some other friends who will be seriously looking into this aspect even if they'd not be interested in the game itself (though I daresay they will be). Edi |
Re: The Random Map Generator and Maps
I dont quite follow, the sole RMG I'm aware of is the one of a fan, Keldon Jones.
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Re: The Random Map Generator and Maps
I was under the impression that there would be a native RMG included in Dominions II capable of producing the sort of maps that we see in the screenshots. If I'm mistaken, then ignore the irrelevant rantings. As it is, Keldon's RMG is so far quite satisfactory, but I thought there was going to be something better in the offing, that's why the excitement. Apparently I'd gotten bad info or the wrong impression of what I read. Oh, well...
Edi |
Re: The Random Map Generator and Maps
I'm afraid there's nothing built-in in terms of a random map generator in Dom II. Maybe Mr. Jones will update his Dom I map generator someday, but who knows? Maybe you could drop him an email and ask if he has any plans to do so.
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Re: The Random Map Generator and Maps
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MAP files. Possibly a gimp or a ghost script could be created which would... just tihnking out loud here... replace the color string in the old format with a flat land color. Hmmm no that might create a really tiny water province? or would it create just a stream in some other province? I suppose it could snag the color in position 17 and fill in bits 1-16 with that same color. |
Re: The Random Map Generator and Maps
Nope, it shouldn't be that difficult to make a pretty good random map generator from Dom's needs. I'm starting a killer quarter at school today (I'm both teacher and student . . . eesh) so I'm not going to have time to devote to such a project on top of everything else I've got going now, but there must be somebody about with the skills AND the time.
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Re: The Random Map Generator and Maps
A good place to start might be with the source code for the old map generator.
http://www.ont.com/~keldon/dommap.html |
Re: The Random Map Generator and Maps
I NEED HELP!
In preparation for DOM 2 I have started playing DOM 1 again. I was made aware of Keldon’s Random Map Generator in this thread. I downloaded it and think it’s great. However I had downloaded it to my desk top and wanted to have it in a sub-folder of Dom 1 so I copied and pasted the exe into the folder and went back to delete the original file and it will not let me. No matter what I do including regediting all entries of dommap I cannot remove/uninstall/delete dommap.exe from my computer. As a side not I had played around with the "run_dommap.sh" shell Script which is mentioned in Keldon’s read me at his site. I am running win XP and while this is a minor annoyance I really would like to be able to uninstall this program from my system. I’d appreciate any suggestions. I emailed Keldorn but don’t know if he is still active and have yet to receive a reply. Thank you Blackwulf |
Re: The Random Map Generator and Maps
have you first checked that the file is not with read only attribs? It happens when you burn them on a cd.
if writable, then what is the message? Does windows say the file is still used by another app? try anyway to reboot in safe mode (dont know how it is called in english, this is the mode without the drivers and terminate stay resident loaded). |
Re: The Random Map Generator and Maps
Pocus,
I did indeed check for read only and I tried rebooting in safe mode. No matter what I try it comes back with the following message... "Cannot Delete dommap:It is being used by another person or program. Close any programs that might be using the file and try again" I have been troubleshooting this for the Last six hours! Blackwulf |
Re: The Random Map Generator and Maps
can you move the file to another place (I doubt, but try), tell me.
make a windows boot disk then and boot from him. Then browse (you'll need to knows DOS commands) to your file, and delete it del dommap.exe in DOS command. It should works. if it dont works, well I dunno. You can use your task manager to see which processes are running, and kill all that appears TSR or superfluous to the system. |
Re: The Random Map Generator and Maps
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For those who haven't already guessed: this is an announcement that dom2map, a random map generator for Dominions II, is now in development. Some of you may know me from the newsgroup - I made some modifications to Keldon's Dom I RMG, including unique province names based on terrain (this may be unnecessary in Dom II but I'll wait and see), config file support, compressed Targa support and others I won't take up too much space by listing here. Design goals for dom2map: </font>
I don't have a release date yet - obviously it will have to be sometime after I get my hands on the full DomII map specs, but I also have a lot of coding left to do. |
Re: The Random Map Generator and Maps
Pocus,
The dos delete did the trick. Thank you so much for taking the time to help me out with this. I was pulling my hair out trying to figure out a solution. Thank you once again! Blackwulf |
Re: The Random Map Generator and Maps
Yay Chris!
Do you think you'll be able to avoid the map with one mountain, one forest, one ocean tendency that the current generator has? Do you think that province sizes could actually reflect the difficulty of moving (i.e. terrain type) in the province? To me this seems the obviously proper determinant of province size but I haven't seen anyone else mention it. A double row of tiny provinces could be a very effective mountain range, letting the occasional guerilla through but causing armies to stick to passes. |
Re: The Random Map Generator and Maps
I'm looking forward to trying out the dom2map random map generator. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
Mountain and forest provinces are already more difficult to pass through in dom II, so it should not be necessary to reduce their size too. |
Re: The Random Map Generator and Maps
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Province size is based primarily on capitol placement - if there are a lot of other capitols nearby, the province will probably be small. Dommap tends to place provinces evenly (if you have the number of provinces set high relative to the spacing options), which results in provinces being roughly the same size (although the shape options can change this somewhat, making it more or less likely that a given province will grab more terrain from its neighbors - but this still doesn't result in an entire region of unusually small provinces). Maybe I could meddle with the distance-from-capitol metric based on terrain (since I'm already planning to implement capitol avoidance from various things differently than dommap) - I might look at this later, but it's not a priority for the first release Version. Glad to see there is some interest (and from Illwinter too! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif ) Wouldn't tiny mountain provinces have really low supply values, though (they get docked once because they're mountain, and again because they're tiny)? Or is that part of the point? |
Re: The Random Map Generator and Maps
"Wouldn't tiny mountain provinces have really low supply values, though (they get docked once because they're mountain, and again because they're tiny)? Or is that part of the point?"
Definately. I specified a double line so only a few hardy explorers could cross the peaks. Where a range is only a single province thick would be a pass. A small pass would leave an army tired (aka starving) with more of the same if it has to retreat, a larger one would be safer to invade through. Oh well, it appears Dom2 is going to handle it less elega^H^H differently. ;-) |
Re: The Random Map Generator and Maps
Blackwulf : thank you for the thanks http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
Chris : Congrats for starting this major project. Hope it will progresses well. As of now, dont put to much focus on extended scripting capabilities, as I'm doing a utility on that. If I'm screwed or if I have no more time, then you will have to take up the flame and carry it to the end though http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif |
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Re: The Random Map Generator and Maps
Strategic move is the number of provinces your units can move. Basically: HI=1, LI=2, LC=3. If your army enters a forest it stops unless it has forest survival. Thus Pangaea is not hindered by forests where the knights of Ulm would move one province a turn.
Undead and lighter flying units usually have a move of 3. Movement is less generous than in Dom I, but terrains have greater inpact on your army movements and reqruitment. |
Re: The Random Map Generator and Maps
wow, major feature change that went unoticed until now!
so I suppose strategic move is the friendly move of doms I (no decision making - shall I strat move or not - in fact). Does this means that Pythium no longer have his +1 move range? thats change quite a bit the gameplay. user feedback pet peeve: I have a group of Cardaces and Hoplites. Can I know, before trying, that I will strat move one province because of Hoplites, or is it trial and error process until you know which unit belong to which group? |
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It is displayed as: Move 1/8 (1=strat move 8=battle ap) There is no warning saying that you are trying to move too far when I come to think about it. But your commander will not change from defend -> move unless a move is possible. |
Re: The Random Map Generator and Maps
fair enough this dual AP info.
thanks. |
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It can be baffling at first. Before I read the manual, I was dinking around with the game wondering why I couldn't move my units two spaces in friendly terrain a la Dom I. But once you grokk the whole strategic move thing, it becomes second nature when you're arranging your armies. Also, IMO, the new terrain rules about forests, mountains, and swamps make fliers that much more valuable. Ultimately, I think it gives the maps a lot more personality. -Tom |
Re: The Random Map Generator and Maps
I would be overjoyed to read the manual http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif (the demo has none)
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Re: The Random Map Generator and Maps
I played with the DomMap-0.9 source abit. (it was never released as a windows Version, only linux raw source code)
I can get it to create a Dom2 map (one that will come up in the Dom2 MapEditor). Alot can be done there without really being a C-programmer but it looks like it will take a programmer to make it really work well. The .map file it writes is WAY off. Apparently Dom1 and Dom2 number the provinces in a different pattern? So even though it does write out the #neighbors they are all over the map. Interesting for one game maybe but not useful. Dom2 allows maps of any size but the DomMap limits it to the old 600x800. I may be able to find that variable and get it to accept higher values. Certain warnings such as "too many neighbors" need to be updated to the new limits also. From the looks of the code it appears that he had started on some of the other ideas that were discussed. Such as terrain notes for each province. But it seems to be from the conversations prior to Illwinter deciding to add it. It also looks like he was possibly working on incorporating some of my stuff as far as adding the ability to put in additional units based on sensible placing from the terrain notes. Well I will keep twiddling with it. If you want to keep track of where Im at so far keep checking http://www.techno-mage.com/~dominion/random.tga http://www.techno-mage.com/~dominion/random.map which is where Im dumping my test runs. |
Re: The Random Map Generator and Maps
OK I got the targa to be bigger but I have a problem. The old code made the targa 600x800 with the map being variable size inside that image.
If I want to allow for the increased image handling of Dom2 then I have to pick a new image size. What would be good for a random map? Dom2 now allows 500 provinces. I was thinking of 1024x2048 |
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OK Im liking the results so far. Im running with a targa size of 1600x1200 because it was one of the screen sizes my monitor allowed so Im thinking its a common size.
This is generating some very interesting maps. Of course people can create maps with less than 500 provinces. And with a map-image within the targa less than the max which gives them a black boundary they can write things or add pictures in. I LOVE how interesting the province shapes are getting. Very strategic Unfortunately the .map it creates is still fairly worthless. But it still wont be bad as a starting point. An idea spur for people who want to manually do maps. Now if we can just get some GIMP brushes for landscape items [ November 25, 2003, 15:27: Message edited by: Gandalf Parker ] |
Re: The Random Map Generator and Maps
OK I seem to be at my limit. Ive hacked what I can but I cant find anything that seems to say "starting the numbering of provinces at upper left corner of map". Apparently (for some reason) Dom2 needs to start at lower left and work upward. Without that change the .map file isnt even close to being useful. It still seems to be the closest thing to a useful tool if someone can fix it.
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Re: The Random Map Generator and Maps
So province numbering works like this?:
DOM1 starting upper left corner left to right top to bottom DOM2 starting lower left corner left to right bottom to top ????????? If it really works this way, simply mirroring the pic on the horizontal axis would do the trick. Added advantage: The map would look like a totally new one again http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif A. |
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Re: The Random Map Generator and Maps
Hi,
I fiddled with the old map generator and have some lovely maps with more water. (40 water provinces, 90 land.) But of course, D2 complains about the map file being bad, but if I just try to load the tga the game exits. I've looked in the map editor manual, but didn't see any solutions. Can this just not be done? Or do I need more knowledge? If ignorance is bliss I'm the happiest man in the world, V'ger gone |
Re: The Random Map Generator and Maps
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The .map will be bad because #title needs to be #dom2title, and I think you have to add #domVersion 150 and #defaultmapzoom 1.5 The problem with the tga is that it tries to place all the capitals and put great big grey flags on each one. The row of color-code dots up in the upper-left corner which Dom1 wanted might be messing up Dom2. Ive edited out the dots, and with smaller maps Ive gotten it to read in though it takes forever to come up. Flipping it vertically actually did help (thanks Arralen) since Dom2 numbers things in reverse but it still wasnt playable. |
Re: The Random Map Generator and Maps
I hate posting a note that has limited use (4 December) but I think todays batch of random maps came out well.
http://www.techno-mage.com/~dominion...humbnails.html http://www.techno-mage.com/~dominion...humbnails.html http://www.techno-mage.com/~dominion...humbnails.html They dont work in Dom2 but they still might be starting points for someone who wants to take one into a paint program and work it abit. I hope someone updates this program. [ December 04, 2003, 15:35: Message edited by: Gandalf Parker ] |
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