Noob questions!
 

I am very new to Dominions, so I have some strategic questions:

1. What is the best combination of magic schools to make a decent pretender? Take lot of astral levels? I read something about those magic duels but I don't understand it at all. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

2. What is better? Recruit and summon the strongest armies what you can, or mass the weaker units?

3. Is it worth to take 6+ levels in a magic school -> Specialize? Or take 3-4 levels from more?

4. What is the purpose of Dominion strength?

5. How the supply is working exactly? Is it good to build castles in all provinces? Castles are sucking the resources away from other provinces???

6. How can I raise the amount of the resources in a province?

This is all so far. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

Re: Noob questions!
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Do you want Dom I answers? Or Dom II? Or both?

Re: Noob questions!
 

Dom I, please. I will get dominions 2. so I will see the differences than. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Noob questions!
 

1. "Best" is pretty hard to define http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif A couple of strategies you can try: a) Give your pretender magic that your race doesn't otherwise have. Suppose you are playing Man - you might design a pretender with fire magic, so you can find fire sites, craft fire-based magic items and cast nasty fire evocations. b) Pick out a specific spell from the spell manual that you think would be fun to cast, and design your pretender to be able to cast it.

Magic Duel is pretty simple really - if an astral mage casts Magic Duel and the enemy has an astral mage present, they will "duel" and one of them will die. The greater astral skill your mage has, the greater the chance that he will win the duel. The relevance to Pretender design is this: suppose you decide to invest in a magic-heavy pretender (rather that putting the design points into dominion scales or castle), and you include a point or two of astral skill. Then an opponent who has a mage with 3 or 4 points of astral skill can duel your pretender, and all those design points are wasted. So the common wisdom seems to be that you either take no astral on your pretender, or you take a lot so that you will tend to win duels. A third way (as I belive Pocus pointed out) is to take moderate astral, but plan on keeping your pretender out of combat.

2. That's largely a matter of style. I personally tend to favor quality over quantity, but both work http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

3. If you're going to take 6+ levels in a school, be very sure that your strategy requires it - very few spells need 6 or more levels in a school, so unless you think those spells are very important, taking that many levels is a waste.

4. The stronger your dominion, the easier it is to spread it out into the world. Your troops get a morale bonus when fighting in your dominion.

5. The short answer - supply "radiates" from castles out to 4 provinces, IIRC. The further from a castle, the less supply. For the long answer, read the manual http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif Build castles where there is something important to protect, or where you need more supply, or where you want to build more troops than the current resouces of the province allows.

6. Build a castle there. The administration value of a castle draws that % of resources from neighboring provinces that you control. There is also an Earth ritual called Riches from Beneath that will raise the resources of provinces under your dominion.

Re: Noob questions!
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">There is no best. There is only Pros and Cons. The game has excellent balance (the opposite of "best"). Each of the magic schools has some great points to it but it depends alot on your style of play. I might say that certain choices are "best" but it would only be best because I have a certain style of play (in my case a jack of all trades going for surprise and unusual slim-chance tactics). Do you play continually aggressive barbarian horde style? Sneaky assassin style? Defensive to do alot of research style? build-up and rush out style? Diplomacy?

As far as astral there is a fairly common agreement that if you take any of it, you need to take a really good amount of it because it makes you susceptable to some attacks.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Again this depends on your style. And "better" would depend on also who you are going up against. One of the great things about this game (and one of the irriating things) is that no one tactic works the same against all of the opponents.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">There are those who prefer both of these. The 6+ levels usually means pushing fast for a particular spell that you use really well. The other usually means doing searching for sites. Both have pros and cons often depending on the size of the map, how many opponents, are the human or AI players, etc.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Ahhh excellent question. The dominion is represented in the game by the candles which is really a good choice. If you turn on the dominion highlighting on the map while you play a game you will see the "light" in your strong dominion areas get bright, and a spreading darkness caused by enemy dominions. The dominion is the "light of your power" spreading across the land.

The stronger that light in a province, the more benefit it recieves. The choices you made in the scales will affect more. Your prophet and your pretender both receive benefits in things like hit points. Certain spells are stnger in your dominion and some wont work at all unless your dominion is strong there.

Notice that the strength of your dominion does not have to agree with what provinces you control. A darkness inside your provinces might mean a site is affecting it which you have not yet discovered. Or it might mean that another player is pushing in toward you. Your dominion extending past your owned provinces will give you information about them such as population and defences.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Not all provinces. Im not sure if there would be a working strategy around that. I do wish the two smallest castle options were cheaper since there are races where having alot of castles quickly would be good. Generally, you can place a few castles strategically to gain more benefits than just the admin stuff. Bottleneck positions, particular local troops that you wish you had more resource points for, protecting important sites/labs/temples.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Building a castle that has admin bonuses. Having certain scales kicked up and putting temples or priests there to raise the dominion strength.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">So far is right! heehee. Sounds like you are getting into the first phase of it all. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Sorry if I overdid the answers. Im an out-of-work Customer Support person.

[ October 07, 2003, 16:16: Message edited by: Gandalf Parker ]

Re: Noob questions!
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">1. What is the best combination of magic schools to make a decent pretender? Take lot of astral levels? I read something about those magic duels but I don't understand it at all. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

Most of the time you'll pick magic schools your national mages aren't proficient in.

Above all, if your nation sucks at air magic, pick air 3+, so you can protect your troops against lightning and shut down enemy fliers and archers by casting Storm or forging a Staff of Storms.

Earth 2-3 is useful to locate Firbog castles and forge Dwarven Hammers, and allows super combattants to cast Invulnerability on themselves (increases protection up to 30).

The air 3/earth 2-3 combo is cool as it allows you to forge Staves of Elemental Mastery, a nice enhancing item to have.

Fire and water magic have less to offer than the 2 other elemental schools - IMO. When I do choose them, I usually pick fire 3 (or only 2 if I have a bit of death magic), and water 2.

Astral magic is one of the most useful schools, if you're not afraid of being magic duelled.

Nature and Death are also interesting schools with powerful enchantments and conjurations, but nature and death independent mages (druids and Harab Seraphs) are not that uncommon, so you can skip these schools and still hope to find these in your starting area.

Blood magic is special, if you're not ready to commit to it seriously you'd better skip it completely. Since blood slaves aren't collected at magic sites, blood magic is more potent on maps with a low magic site frequency. Its main interest is the ultra-powerful summons you get at research level 4 and 6.

Magic Duel is an astral spell which have you confront an enemy astral mage. The most skilled mage usually wins, and the loser dies - plain and simple. That's why there's a race for astral supremacy in Dominions.

2. What is better? Recruit and summon the strongest armies what you can, or mass the weaker units?

Look at morale and protection first. Then look at the damage rating of your primary weapon - or at weapons with multiples attacks if your main enemy uses low-protection troops like flagellants.

3. Is it worth to take 6+ levels in a magic school -> Specialize? Or take 3-4 levels from more?

Usually the later, although I sometimes go with high astral (7+) because I'm a coward, or mid-high death to get the most out of reanimation and conjuration spells.

4. What is the purpose of Dominion strength?

(a) Without it you die.
(b) Higher morale for your troops in your dominion
(c) Increased stats for your pretender and your prophet.
(d) Keep Ermor in check! ;-)

With most nations a dominion of 3-6 is OK. A bit higher for cold/heat loving ones. Underwater nations often take it higher because it's harder for them to maintain a steady dominion unless they conquer several coastal provinces.

5. How the supply is working exactly? Is it good to build castles in all provinces? Castles are sucking the resources away from other provinces???

Supply is based on the population of the province you're in, its growth/death scale and its heat/cold scale. In addition nearby castles send supplies up to 5 provinces away, based on their administration value, as long as a friendly path can be traced to the province. Nature mages provide a few supplies to their troops. A few items and special creatures also do this.

6. How can I raise the amount of the resources in a province?

Lower unrest. Build castles.

Re: Noob questions!
 

Whoa! Thanks for your replies, vets! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif

Re: Noob questions!
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I won't call myself a vet but here is my two-cents.

I'm not trying to put you down http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif . But if you even need to ask this question, the best pretenders will be a Wyrm with nothing, a Moloch with only Fire 3 (for generating devils) http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif . Put all other nation points into the beneficial scales.

Recruit all heavy infantries (some minor variations for some of the nations). Rely on brute physical force and economical wealth. You can beat the computer easily with this approach. It'll be more tricky while playing human, but you'll at least survive to the mid-game to see what can go wrong http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif . You'll eventually figure other combos to give your opponents some nasty surprises but such simple, direct approach can carry you far enough.

Dom II might be a totally different beast. We'll have to wait and see.

Re: Noob questions!
 

just an added note, if you liked in your youth those surprise boxes which had half a dozen unknown toys, then choose luck +3 (and some disorder scale).
You wil get interesting random events, like mines which will boost permanently gold and resource productions (well mostly gold) in the province targeted by the event.

Re: Noob questions!
 

Before this turns into The Eternal Duel Between House Order and House Disorder and Luck, i'll just say this:

Taking Order, Growth and Productivity is like making investments.

Taking Luck and Disorder is like gambling.

I'm not saying which one is better...
It also depends on the nation.

Re: Noob questions!
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Even more fun: take disorder 3 and misfortune 3. You will now be able to see your empire crumble without the intervention of nasty enemies. You can do it all by yourself. There are more bad events than good ones so if you like diversity I recommend this approach. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: Noob questions!
 

Dominions is very unique and lot more complicated than the usual strategy games, so you can choose lot of different tactics to win. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Noob questions!
 

I have a question about the deathmatches that occur every now and then. I sent a dusk elder into th first one which he subsequently won. Ever since, he has been automaticaly sent back whenever a new deathmatch occurs. Thus far he has won every time. My question is, am I supposed to be getting a reward for remaining champion?

I haven't recieved a prize since the first event (and even then it was a cursed trident). Do you only get the prize if you defeat the champion? Is the only prize that crumby cursed trident that gets passed on to each new champ?

Re: Noob questions!
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Yup, that crumby cursed trident and a exp boost if i remember correctly.

Re: Noob questions!
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">It's supposed to be a wandering trophy, like a those ugly buckets passed around in sport circuits, so since he keeps winning he just keeps the trophy. The champ has to defend his title. The arena has allways generated a suprising amount of complaints and suggestions compared to how small part it plays in the overall scheme of the game.

[ October 07, 2003, 21:00: Message edited by: johan osterman ]

Re: Noob questions!
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">It's supposed to be a wandering trophy, like a those ugly buckets passed around in sport circuits, so since he keeps winning he just keeps the trophy. The champ has to defend his title. The arena has allways generated a suprising amount of complaints and suggestions compared to how small part it plays in the overall scheme of the game.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">But i love the arena combat!
It's the best place to cast Curse, Seven Years Fever and Horror Mark! When i play an Astral nation i alwasy script the combatant to cast Curse and/or Horror Mark if he can cast those spells.

Re: Noob questions!
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I like to create cursed daggers, exploding amulets, and cursing shields as early as possible just to have them ready for the arenas.
I tend to send someone who isnt going to Last more than one combat anyway. Getting a chance to curse someones main leader or prophet or pretender is too good to pass up.

I also love to send mercenary commanders that have used up all their troops. I dont send the amulet then since sometimes those guys do real well. Either way I dont have to worry about the automatic return.

Personally I think they could do some tweaking on the arena thing.

Re: Noob questions!
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">It's supposed to be a wandering trophy, like a those ugly buckets passed around in sport circuits, so since he keeps winning he just keeps the trophy. The champ has to defend his title. The arena has allways generated a suprising amount of complaints and suggestions compared to how small part it plays in the overall scheme of the game.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">But i love the arena combat!
It's the best place to cast Curse, Seven Years Fever and Horror Mark! When i play an Astral nation i alwasy script the combatant to cast Curse and/or Horror Mark if he can cast those spells.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Its also a good place to get blinded by Machaka (they start with that spell). Particularly bad idea is to send 500 gold worth Niefelheim Prophet and get blinded first turn by Machakan Sorceress. Talk about OUCH. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: Noob questions!
 

I love Arena combat, hopefully it will be even better in Doms II. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif

Re: Noob questions!
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Dude, you are EVIL. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif
Just plain EVIL. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Not that I'm any better ... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ October 07, 2003, 22:08: Message edited by: Daynarr ]

Re: Noob questions!
 

I think the arena is a really neat part of the game. But, of course, I always have suggestions:)

The Champion's Trident is sweet. Really nice. But not nice enough, for me, to compensate for the loss of a second hand slot on a combat unit (I would only want the Champion's Trident on a mage). The fact that it is cursed makes it interesting... but, combined with the fact that it takes up 2 slots... not great. If it was 1-handed, or had a couple extra bonuses (reinvigoration, armor-piercing), then I might consider sending valuable units to fight in the arena, but as it stands I don't want to get a valuable unit (except a combat mage) stuck with it.

Then there's the matter of the physical location of the arena. Shouldn't owning it net you some advantage? I mean, since it DOES exist in the real world, the magic and heat scales should certainly affect it... even if it exempted from Dominion strength. Of course, for all I know, maybe these already affect arena combat.

Next up: Arena Squad Deathmatch, in which you send a leaderless group of normal units of total combined size <= 20. And no routing is allowed!

-Cherry

Re: Noob questions!
 

LOL on the Arena deathtrap idea! I'd not thought of that one! I think I'll try it in my current game since the enemy Pretender is competing. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif

Re: Noob questions!
 

Arena DM! Whoa another nice idea there, Saber! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif

Re: Noob questions!
 

The Arena is, in fact, present in Dom II as a site. It adds some amount of income per turn to the owner of its home province. I'm not sure but I think the dominion of the province defines the nature of the battlefield as well.

Home court advantage, anyone?

Re: Noob questions!
 

I rarely enter a death match as I simply don't see the Trident as desireable. For a mage it's not worth risking death, and more usefull weapons are forgeable for melee commanders (e.g. I would generally prefer a Wraith Sword).

If it were one handed (e.g. as used by Retiarius Gladiators), life draining, armor negating, or simply not cursed I'd consider using it.

Re: Noob questions!
 

AFAIK Champions Trident quickens your commander so he can do 2 actions in 1 turn. That’s VERY handy for both mages and fighters.

[ October 07, 2003, 23:30: Message edited by: Daynarr ]

Re: Noob questions!
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Yep. That's why I like in on a mage, so he doesn't have to cast quickness or wear boots of quickness... which are not available to a lot of races. But I find there are much better setups for fighters. And even on a mage, 2 arm slots gone means 2 magic power enhancing items he can't wear.

Re: Noob questions!
 

As far as the arena goes, I've always felt that if all my enemies want to get together and fight among themselves then I'm happy to stand aside and let them. Also happy to cringe when an AI sends someone like Brangwen the Blind into the meat grinder...

Re: Noob questions!
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Yes, I realize this. It simply isn't enough to make it worth it, even with out the inherent risk of trying to get it. Quickness is quite nice, but it's also easy to get in other ways.

I can see that very early in the game it might be a boon to expansion -- but very early in the game the risk is proportionally much greater.

Re: Noob questions!
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Even more fun: take disorder 3 and misfortune 3. You will now be able to see your empire crumble without the intervention of nasty enemies. You can do it all by yourself. There are more bad events than good ones so if you like diversity I recommend this approach. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">nice idea, you are really wicked! I propose a challenge : take a nation, put the scales at disorder 3, sloth 3, death 3, luck -3, drain 3, and add some 2-3 impossible AI. The one which Last the longuer will have his name praised in the forum http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Ermor & maritime nations excluded ?

Re: Noob questions!
 

Frankly it must be me, but I dont see the point in this whole arena concept, as it is now. Well, if the goal is to weaken the AI, then it works perfectly.

The sole interest, and nearly all your Posts confirm it, is that it is a way for the player to abuse the AI.

No sane player would dare commit a decent leader into the arena. On the other hand, the AI is coded to engage a worthy combattant, be it a prophet, his god, or another commander.

yes it can be fun at time, example your first solo game of dominions. After you discover what lie behind the feature, you only use it to exploit the AI opponents.

Re: Noob questions!
 

Yup, the AI must be tweaked for the Arena matches in Doms II. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif

[ October 08, 2003, 08:11: Message edited by: DominionsFAN ]

Re: Noob questions!
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">The arena is not supposed to have a point, it is supposed to be fun. The trident is not supposed to be the best weapon in the game, it is supposed to be a sticky trident. The whole thing is just a feature slapped on because it is neat, there is no particular point to it.

Re: Noob questions!
 

Johan, it is a very good thing to have an arena combat. I think that it should be upgraded even.
I think the champ should get random magic items. Those items should be unique, and only given for arena champs.
I agree that the AI should be tweaked for the Arena matches, IE. the AI should make an Arena competitor only with the right equipment, and stop sending in his best leaders in bad equipment, etc.

[ October 08, 2003, 08:28: Message edited by: Mortifer ]

Re: Noob questions!
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">The arena is not supposed to have a point, it is supposed to be fun. The trident is not supposed to be the best weapon in the game, it is supposed to be a sticky trident. The whole thing is just a feature slapped on because it is neat, there is no particular point to it.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">ah yes, it is fun in the sense 'what can I do to screw this stupid AI this time? Should I bring explosion medaillion, cursed items, totem shield?'.
I can understand than one can have fun reviewing the battles generated and see all these AI prophets or gods going down or be cursed or afflicted. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

Re: Noob questions!
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">The arena is not supposed to have a point, it is supposed to be fun. The trident is not supposed to be the best weapon in the game, it is supposed to be a sticky trident. The whole thing is just a feature slapped on because it is neat, there is no particular point to it.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">ah yes, it is fun in the sense 'what can I do to screw this stupid AI this time? Should I bring explosion medaillion, cursed items, totem shield?'.
I can understand than one can have fun reviewing the battles generated and see all these AI prophets or gods going down or be cursed or afflicted. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">LOL..sad but true. Arena is a very good idea, but the AI sucks in Doms I. It is way to easy to abuse the AI. [Curse etc. etc.]

[ October 08, 2003, 11:14: Message edited by: Aristoteles ]

Re: Noob questions!
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I think you are overstating your case. If you bring an amulet or veneance or other similar item you can just screw with one of the AI nations. And so what if the AI's prohpet dies, it is not like it puts a huge dent in his carefully laid plans.

Re: Noob questions!
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Hell yeah! Very good ideas! I agree with this totally. This would stop the AI abusing. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif

Re: Noob questions!
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Something like that was already done in the past - we call that a "death game": no Ermor, common random events, everyone has to pick max turmoil and max unluck.

If you ever play in this kind of game, let me give you a hint: growth and production aren't worth s***, except in the very early stage. After a while your provinces will be so depleted you won't see any difference between growth+3 and death+3 ;-).</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Stone idols allowed? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ October 08, 2003, 16:30: Message edited by: Psitticine ]

Re: Noob questions!
 

As to the arena thing...

Perhaps a penalty should be assesed to nations that don't enter the arena, futher penalties could be assesed depending on how well your champions does. Loses right away your people get more unrest, wins the whole thing, unrest goes down, or extra cash is raised... somethings like that.

This way it makes sense for every nation to start training arena competators (at least to some extent) otherwise they can get hit in their economy. Heh if you want to be really cruel give curses to all commanders of a nation that doesn't send a representative to the arena http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Noob questions!
 

Another possiblity would be a temporary dominion increase of 1 candle/province for the winner, and a temporary decrease of 1 candle/province for any nation who does not enter the competition. This would be nice and thematic... who can have faith in a God who can't even muster a champion for the world Arena tournament? An increase in unrest in all provinces, as was mentioned, would also work... as would a temporary decrease in tax revenue... or getting hit by a couple "bad luck" events. In these cases, nobody would dare to not enter the Arena.

A great addition would be "Qualifying Rounds", where each competitor MUST win a simple qualifying fight against an experienced gladiator (or an experienced indy prot-15 commander, for example). If you lose this qualifying fight it is the same as having not entered. This would have several effects. First, sending in a suicide competitor with an exploding medallion, etc. would no longer work. Second, you could not simply send a cheap, disposable scout or priest to have "technically" entered, without really trying. Lastly, it would add extra, interesting Arena rounds, so you can get a feel for the competitors' strengths before they start duelling! I find reviewing the Arena fights to be a lot of fun, and this would make it even more so.

-Cherry

Re: Noob questions!
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Never thought about stone idols! I believe that's a patch item, I don't remember if it existed when we had our little death game.

Hmmm, BTW, does anyone use stone idols often? I tried maybe a couple times, and didn't notice a strong effect (if any at all) on my neighbor's dominion.

Re: Noob questions!
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Err, if that idea was ever implemented, I think in MP most arena events would feature mostly scouts.

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<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Hell yeah! Very good ideas! I agree with this totally. This would stop the AI abusing. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I agree. This is the best idea so far. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Noob questions!
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Hell yeah! Very good ideas! I agree with this totally. This would stop the AI abusing. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I agree. This is the best idea so far. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">...I like 3, but I really dislike 1 and 2. A qualifying round would stop AI abuse without negatively altering the nature of arena combat. The way I see it, removing the ability to equip competitors means that a God, Jotun, or astral mage will always win. And removing afflictions afterward... seems unrealistic, and makes it a zero-risk proposition for the strongest entrant.

Re: Noob questions!
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Err, if that idea was ever implemented, I think in MP most arena events would feature mostly scouts.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Maybe, but then if your scout gets knocked out early you still suffer some penalty to your nation. The trick is to make the risk/reward/punishment scale meaningful without overbalancing it. Others I'm sure have more experience and better ideas than I do, but I think the premise is sound.

Send no one, really bad things happen.
Send a wuss who gets knocked out fast, bad things happen.
Send someone who does mediocre... neutral.
Send someone who makes the finals (semis whatever) small good things happen.
Send someone who becomes the champion... better things happen.

Furthermore, make a penalty to a nation who has the champion when he loses. That way if you want to you can send a tougher dude than the champion to give that nation a headache, then the next time another nation will send a stronger competator... eventually the cycle could wind up with fairly decent if not out right strong champions being taken on by buffed opponents to knock out that champion.

Its all in how the payoff is set up...

Re: Noob questions!
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">You are right : it is not that much important to send or not cursed items or booby traps to the arena, the problem lie elsewhere, so let me point out the obvious then : there can only be one survivor from the Arena.
The AI is coded to send a powerful minion, or even the god. This lead to the fact that each arena event is the perfect thing to kill a lot of good/special commanders, or even - shiver - gods from the AI, for a prize which is very meager (a proof being that no player will send a critical commander in the arena).

Oh look Abysia lost his equipped archdevil, oh look Jotun lost Angerboda, oh look Pythium lost his god.
I dont think that the AI need this thorn in his side, frankly. Or at least give a real benefit to the winner, a benefit big enough that players will consider entering the arena. If they do not enter the arena, then I still dont see the point of having it.

Anyway, thats your game not mine, the feature was added because it is fun for you, so my arguing has no real purpose...

Re: Noob questions!
 

I agree with both Johann - the Arena concept is fun - and Pocus - it's an open door for abusing AIs ...
May I suggest some tweaks that I think will make the "game" fairer and more interesting ?

1/ NO items in the Arena, the combattants enter naked, all their stuff go to the Lab
2/ At the end of the fights, all survivors are fully healed/cured/restored/curses removed, they come back as new, only the dead remain dead !
3/ Prizes should be various powerful unique artifacts, or a big pack of gems, not always the same half-potent but cursed weapon

I think that those rules would kill most of the arena cheese, the players would either have to pass on an opportunity to kill enemies and gain something worthwhile, or send themselves powerful leaders (as the AI does and as the devs intended to design Arena combat).
I concur that the Dom1 Arena prize isn't that good, it's nice with a supercombatant pretender or a big fighter type leader if you get it very early, but even so ends later as a drawback as you can't get rid of it when you can forge better stuff ...

Re: Noob questions!
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Something like that was already done in the past - we call that a "death game": no Ermor, common random events, everyone has to pick max turmoil and max unluck.

If you ever play in this kind of game, let me give you a hint: growth and production aren't worth s***, except in the very early stage. After a while your provinces will be so depleted you won't see any difference between growth+3 and death+3 ;-).

(Note from Psitticine: Sorry to have gone in and edited here, but there are the usual "child friendly" language policies in place here.)

[ October 08, 2003, 16:29: Message edited by: Psitticine ]

Re: Noob questions!
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Hell yeah! Very good ideas! I agree with this totally. This would stop the AI abusing. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I agree. This is the best idea so far. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">...I like 3, but I really dislike 1 and 2. A qualifying round would stop AI abuse without negatively altering the nature of arena combat. The way I see it, removing the ability to equip competitors means that a God, Jotun, or astral mage will always win. And removing afflictions afterward... seems unrealistic, and makes it a zero-risk proposition for the strongest entrant.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I think the ONLY way to balance the Arena fights and stop the AI abusing if items wont be allowed in the arena matches.
If the items are allowed you can abuse the AI easily, IE send in a crap commander to curse the pretender etc. etc. etc.

Do you have any other idea, that how to stop AI abusing?

OR there is another solution: Do not allowed specific item types only, like cursing items etc. Maybe that should do it as well.

[ October 09, 2003, 09:09: Message edited by: Mortifer ]