Re: dominions copy protection
 

I like the method where one of the old easily cracked scheme is used so that even some old menu driven tool can crack it. Then a new code is deeply inserted to look for the crack. If the crack is found then the game becomes horribly irritating (bad luck shall strike you every ther turn) or it turns the game into a demo Version

By the way I did like the method used in Dom 1 also. If a game found the same CD key being used then the host just "forgot" to process every other turn for that player. No matter what they use I think they should leave that in or something equally as irriating. Yes, I discovered the copy protection. Because I had 5 legal copies of the game but hadnt come up with a method of remembering what CD was loaded to what machine. Everytime I had a machine blowup I had to find all the CDs and go thru them one at a time loading them then setup a multiplayer game with them. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: dominions copy protection
 

I would prefer a method that finds out if the game has been cracked, and then fries the CPU of the computer where the warez Dom II is being run.

Of course that would be illegal and possibly impossible to do, but hey, bying a new CPU and possibly a couple of new parts has to suck.

Because that would be kinda impossible to do, i answered "CD key has to be entered when downloading a patch".

Re: dominions copy protection
 

The copy protection works much the same way it did in dom 1.

Re: dominions copy protection
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">the doms I scheme only adresses issues involving a multiplayer game with redundant cd keys. You can still play solo with a pirated key without problems (see the NG for the ongoing discussion, the guys at Shrapnel know that cd keys of doms will appear in a matter of days on the internet).

You really ought to protect more your game IMHO.

Re: dominions copy protection
 

Perhaps, but it is to late to implement anything else now anyway.

Re: dominions copy protection
 

Is it possible that although I have a cd-key after buying the game, the same cd-key will be used by hackers?

Re: dominions copy protection
 

The sad fact is, that CD-Key or not, all games are cracked, and all games have generated CD-Keys.

The Galciv idea, that you can download a patch with a valid cdkey is not working at all.
The Galciv updates can be found on the internet...Sad but true.
If you know where to look of course.
[Hint: I think even a google search can guide you very well, if I am correct.]
Now you may ask, that how the heck did they get those 'Online only' patches. Well who knows? How the heck can someone leak the Half Life 2 source code?
There are no answers. Only questions. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

If you ask me, all protections are a joke, It is totally pointless, as Richard had mentioned before.

The CD-Keys are useful @ Online play. Just think: Battle.net
However another sad fact: There are countless valid cdkeys on the internet for Warcraft III. & Frozen Throne. Yes you heard it right, valid Battle.net Cd-Keys...
You can find anything....I know that it is sad, but you cannot stop piracy, ever. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

[ October 13, 2003, 15:00: Message edited by: DominionsFAN ]

Re: dominions copy protection
 

I say Illwinter makes the CPU frying copy protection system, accompanied with "I will smite thee with the powers of angry god, heathen!" message when Dom II detects it has been cracked.
Then they can sell their copy protection system on and make some $$$!

I know, it's illegal and possibly impossible to do.

Re: dominions copy protection
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">True, but cdkeys reported to be pirated can be put on black list (Gal Civ, or windows XP). When several Users ask for the same patch, dozen of time, it is safe to think that something is amiss with this cdkey.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">False. The updates which can be found are the major patches, which are delivered with a cd key, right, but are downloadable and archivable. The incremental patches, which are installed progressively as you download them, are surely not found on the internet.
Major patches are made by Gal Civ to allow Users to archives them and reuse them as they wish, with the big drawback that they are pirated.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">these are not the 'Online only' patches, but the downaloadable & archivable patches.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">all protections can be cracked. The issue is not to have an uncrackable protection, but a scheme which will slow down sufficiently the pirated copies spread. With patches all secured thru download, you can perhaps pirate the old Version of a game, not the new ones.

Re: dominions copy protection
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Didn't you already posted this?

I do hope that you are joking because frying one's CPU, even if it were possible, is not only illegal but simply not right as well. Imagine that if Cop stops a speeder, takes a bat and smashes his car. Basically you would be much worse then him.
But of course, you are joking. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Right? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/confused.gif

[ October 13, 2003, 15:26: Message edited by: Daynarr ]

Re: dominions copy protection
 

So long as software piracy is not dealt with seriously the various protections are no sweat to the expirienced hacker.
They, however, make life more difficult for the honest buyer http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

Re: dominions copy protection
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">sure, I can understand it was not even a low order priority for IW, when you started develop Doms, but software companies more and more integrate the fact that they should spend some tenth of percents (I mean 0.1 to 0.3% or more, in case my frenchglish is garbled) of they development time in coding protections which will slow down how the soft can be pirated.

In doms I, you could have in a matter of hours have at least encrypted your serial!

Re: dominions copy protection
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I do not see how a cdkey you enter once makes your life difficult, but perhaps you have no arms and is forced to type with the tip of your nose. Should you enter into a multi player game where you have the same code cd key as another player one of you will get a stale turn, but at least one of the players with the same key has an illbegotten key. If you have a valid purchased key this is unlikely to happen however. There is far more cdkeys then there is likely to be games sold, meaning that chances are that keyes that are cracked are not likely to be the particular key you posess, and the chance that you come up against a multiplayer opponent with your particular key is even more miniscule. And should it happen, against all odds, I am sure we can work something out.

Re: dominions copy protection
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I think it is working like this:
Someone with a valid cdkey is downloading the updates, and hes putting it up to the net.
He cannot be found or reported of course.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">You are very wrong again. All of the Galciv patches can be found on the net. Propably someone using the method what Ive mentioned above.



As I said protections are useless, and the cd-key to download method as well.
Someone will get those updates and put it up to the net. 100%.
Cd-Keys are only helpful in multiplayer, and only on the net. on LAN you can ALWAYS play with warez cd-keys as well.

Re: dominions copy protection
 

Copy protection is just that. Its not piracy protection and its not meant to be. Casual copying by good buddies is a much more important target. Piracy is a fun side issue to do damage to whenever possible.

The argument that "it doesnt work and shouldnt be bothered with" is used for security, laws, religion, government, schools, etc etc. If they thought they were trying to stop it then yes they would probably give up. But if they consider their job to make it as hard as possible, for as many as possible, for as long as possible... well then they are doing just fine.

Re: dominions copy protection
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">You are very wrong again. All of the Galciv patches can be found on the net. Propably someone using the method what Ive mentioned above.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I bought gal civ, have you? I know for sure that the major patches are distributed without much protections, but the incremental patches are only downloadable thru stardock utility, which downloads the components and then upgrade your game on the fly. I would be very surprised to see incremental patches on P2P servers or on warez sites, as it would asks for an hacked copy of the utility. Can be, but this would be a major hassle, as the utility is itself patched nearly all weeks (and work only with a secure connection toward stardock). What you see is certainly the big patches. If stardock only permitted DL thru his securized connection, I think this would slow down greatly the hacking of the game.

I maintain that the download of patches only available thru secure connections made between the user and a certified server, with a list of Banned keys, is a scheme which impede greatly pirates. Thats IMO anyway, you can disagree http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

And I think that most honest Users are not that bothered by a scheme like this, because they know that the time they loose when they DL a patch with their key is a very small loss, compared to all the hassle incured by pirates to get a given Version of the game (and as soon as a patch his DL with the same cdkey too many time, ban it, to the despair of all pirates).
(IMO again)

[ October 13, 2003, 17:02: Message edited by: Pocus ]

Re: dominions copy protection
 

Pocus, I dont know about these things but.....if you say: major patches. Well arent the major patches what those warez ppl need? I guess major patch means v1.1, v1.2 etc. Am I right?

What is a incremental patch anyways?

Re: dominions copy protection
 

I've lost a few CD keys, and it was really a pain. Now I always write them on the game CD... but in general, if a game requires key, I think it should be marked on the original CD (not the jewel case or box).

Any "activation" ala Windows would prevent me from buying any software (except Windows... sigh). If I were to release a game, I would probably allow patches to be downloaded for free, but require a key to be entered for the patch to be installed. That way, keys could be revoked in the future (if some were found to be massively duped), but there would be no Online BS to mess with (patches could be mirrored, etc). This would require big keys, with so many possiblities that if somebody cracked the keygen, any random new valid key generated would have a statistically zero chance of matching an existing customer's key - in other words, a duplicated key means that somebody gave his key to someone else. And if a flawed, crackable keygen was used, the only people to suffer would be the people that chose the keygen.

There are no perfect systems, but if you can make it take more than $39 worth of work to run the game illegally - without ever harming legit customers - the level of piracy will be insignificant. And BTW, I think requiring a CD in the drive to play constitutes "harm" http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

-Cherry

Re: dominions copy protection
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">sure you can play with only major patches. By major, I mean the ones released by Stardock, that are available y regular download. But Stardock, almost weekly, release incremental subpatches, which are only available thru their utility (witch a check on the cdkey). Once in a while, they release a 'summary' patch, which cover all the tweak dones for some weeks/months.

I understand that they release these big patches to not piss off customers, but this is what permit pirates to get updates, which are then disseminated on the internet.

Re: dominions copy protection
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">sure you can play with only major patches. By major, I mean the ones released by Stardock, that are available y regular download. But Stardock, almost weekly, release incremental subpatches, which are only available thru their utility (witch a check on the cdkey). Once in a while, they release a 'summary' patch, which cover all the tweak dones for some weeks/months.

I understand that they release these big patches to not piss off customers, but this is what permit pirates to get updates, which are then disseminated on the internet.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">No one cares about 'little patches'.
All major patches are on the net for Galciv..

If you ask me there is no perfect protection against crackers, and propably never will be. Sadly we must live with this. Always.

[ October 13, 2003, 19:46: Message edited by: DominionsFAN ]

Re: dominions copy protection
 

The harder you make a game to play illegally, the harder people will work to break through your anti-piracy setup.
It's probably best not to try, because all trying does is waste trouble and usually make things more annoying for people who bought the game, while just providing more challenging practice to the software pirates.

They're pretty through too...I know people that know about that sort of thing...and I'm pretty sure there was even a warez Version of Dominions I. Although it's really sad if anybody got that...
Traitors to Illwinter! Destroy them all!

Re: dominions copy protection
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Most of them arent efforts to stop the pirates. Its efforts to stop the copiers. Casual copys by good buddies are the big target. Pirates are just a side game.

Re: dominions copy protection
 

Yeah...foolish me. I read down to your post after posting that...that does make a certain amount of sense too. But depending on how causual they are it really doesnt take much to stop casual copiers.
Cd-check requirements are especially annoying...they dont really stop anybody with a cd burner and they require actually keeping the cd accesible.

Re: dominions copy protection
 

Hmm. It's too bad though to not be able to, say, play a LAN game with several computers using one CD-key.

The network host thing is a good solution for network games. Doesn't work for single-player. However, you can check whether more than one user is using the host network at the same time, and then deactivate that key.

Ah well.

PvK

dominions copy protection
 

The Shrapnel official policy is to not have a too strong copy protection scheme in their games, to not bother honests customers. What would you prefer to see?

[ October 13, 2003, 12:30: Message edited by: Pocus ]

Re: dominions copy protection
 

The option 'need to enter a cd key upon DL a patch' imply that the patch upgrade your Doms Version on the fly, and is not a stand alone patch.

Otherwise, it would be too easy to get a copy of the patch, then distribute it on the internet...

(this is the Galciv scheme)

[ October 13, 2003, 12:31: Message edited by: Pocus ]

Re: dominions copy protection
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Well all you need to do is make a copy of the files before the patch and then make a binary differance with the patched files and make a deltapatch of it. So i wouldent be suprised if you where finding incremental patches on wares sites or P2P servers.

/Morkul