yeah, but what about the manual?
 

I have heard that the manual will be massive (i hope)....but, is this true? Or, is it just a manual on the disk in electronic format?

Personally, I hope that the manual will be a very good size (please, let it be more than 95 pages, with the Last 10 pages being credits and a place to write "notes").

I have read somewhere that the manual will be huge, and will have the spells all listed and all that jazz....please, can someone please tell?

Thanks

Re: yeah, but what about the manual?
 

Don't worry the manual will be bigger than the bible! Er...right? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Re: yeah, but what about the manual?
 

The disk will be massive due to the manual in it ? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/confused.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Re: yeah, but what about the manual?
 

In fact, the manual.pdf will be shipped on a DVD disk! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Re: yeah, but what about the manual?
 

pdf cant fit on a dvd, he is too ... impressive, awesome ?

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Re: yeah, but what about the manual?
 

To answer the actual question:
I think the game will have a printed manual.

Item manual and Spell book migth or migth not be separate manuals:
If not separate, 71+88 is definedly more than 95 pages.

[ October 15, 2003, 13:25: Message edited by: Nerfix ]

Re: yeah, but what about the manual?
 

if it is sent in dvd case format, then the manual will be at most 40 pages or so. I dont really want IW to blow his margin by making a printed 200 pages manual anyway. We all have printers I think.

Re: yeah, but what about the manual?
 

The product info at Gamersfront says it is shrinkwrapped.

Re: yeah, but what about the manual?
 

I would also like to see a large manual - I love reading game manuals http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif - but I recognise that there'd be a lot to put in.

Could someone from Shrapnel or Illwinter answer this question for us?

Re: yeah, but what about the manual?
 

I love the "nice" manuals too, but I dont care.
The game is more important for me. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ October 15, 2003, 14:48: Message edited by: Mortifer ]

Re: yeah, but what about the manual?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">And for me too - but a nice manual would be the icing on the cake http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: yeah, but what about the manual?
 

There is software which allows a web site to mass-manage an FAQ file (frequently asked questions). Maybe I should put that up and we can all write a "manual" as we see gaps that could help newbies.

Re: yeah, but what about the manual?
 

I was thinking (and yes, it hurts sometimes).....
Will the Doms II manual provide more info about the mechanics of the game than the Dom I manual did? I realize that there is a lot of things going on and possible scenarios to work out, but I would rather see some of those explained, than the spell manual. Seeing that all the spell descriptions are listed in the game anyway, I find it a bit superfluous, while some other things are sorely missing.

For example, there was a recently mentioned thing about knights using their lances only in their first attack, and fighting with shorter weapons later on. The stream of questions stemming from that single fact can be quite substantial (which other units also use this rule, what is meant by "first attack" anyway, etc.). It seems that a lot of vets were also surprised by this notion. Why are things like these left out from the manual? If the current verison of the manual is in print and impossible to change now, can we expect any additions to it that would cover more of the game intricate mechanics?
Thanks for replies

Re: yeah, but what about the manual?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">That is because we do not want a five hundred page manual.

Printed additions will not be made. FAQ's etc might be put on a page as suggested by Gandalph.

Re: yeah, but what about the manual?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Thanks for the reply.
I understand, and I wasn't actually asking for printed additions. The problem with some of these things is that you don't know what to ask sometimes. For example, why would there be a reason to believe that knights behave in some way other than any other unit with multiple attacks? And it turns out that they do. Hence, I was thinking more along the lines of some further input from you, the IW, about the game mechanics in some format (not printed, electronical), not the player-made FAQs as such.

Re: yeah, but what about the manual?
 

I much prefer teaching, public speaking, doing demos, customer support work, living in webforums or newsGroups for a company, generally translating tech to english. THEY keep trying to make me a programmer or a systems administrator or an IT manager just because I could do those if they could convince me to want to.

The fact that I prefer teaching to teching means I often hear snide remarks from hacklers saying "those who can, do. And those who cant, teach." I usually respond with "I have no problem with that because from what I have seen... Those who can, cant teach."

I bring this up in order to ask... do you really want a manual written by programmers? I mean, they can do it of course. Part of the problem is that they will know the game so well that they will have problems even thinking about WHAT a new learner will have trouble understanding.

If we are lucky they will get some literary friend to learn the game from the beginning and take good notes. Then ask questions from the programmers. Then translate those answers into the common toungue and write a manual. Unless they know someone who is specifically good at teaching this is going to be the problem. The manual that goes out with the game should not be written by anyone who KNOWS the game. It should be written by someone who learned it.

This is Internet. If its lacking, then why arent you doing it?

[ October 17, 2003, 19:50: Message edited by: Gandalf Parker ]

Re: yeah, but what about the manual?
 

Excuse me, why don't I do what exactly?

I was asking a simple question, and it's not unheard of that game manuals explain the mechanics of a game in detail. I'm not asking for a source code written in machine language, merely how things resolved, what is taken into account, and what does "poisoned claw" attack mean, that kind of things.

Re: yeah, but what about the manual?
 

generally when we had a problem in doms (I), we discussed it on the newsgroup to see if someone had the answer. Some time a dev was kind enough to drop the technical explanation which was needed.

This forum is then a neat place to ask questions, I think that the IW team, or the beta testers wont desert it anytime soon.

Re: yeah, but what about the manual?
 

There will be a printed manual, although I haven't personally seen this yet. My understanding is that it will be in the 100-150 page range, but don't count that as a promise.

I think you will find answers to questions right here on this forum, if you keep posting like you have been. It has worked for the Space Empires folks, at least. If a question is asked we will find the answer for you.

Also, if a FAQ is put out you will be able to download it from the Dominions II product page - just go to links.

Hope this helps.

Re: yeah, but what about the manual?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Im hoping that someone will decide to export such conversations to a web page. Maybe in the form of a FAQ file. Im not going to argue that the game makers "should" provide a manual but as an old ISP person pitching the pros and cons of internet when people say something like "I searched and didnt find xxxxxx" I like to reply that simply means that they should do one. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: yeah, but what about the manual?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Thanks for the reply.
I understand, and I wasn't actually asking for printed additions. The problem with some of these things is that you don't know what to ask sometimes. For example, why would there be a reason to believe that knights behave in some way other than any other unit with multiple attacks? And it turns out that they do. Hence, I was thinking more along the lines of some further input from you, the IW, about the game mechanics in some format (not printed, electronical), not the player-made FAQs as such.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">The problem is that I'm not aware of all mechanics that needs explaining. I thought that most players knew about the lances. There are hundreds if not thousands of tidbits of information that players are unaware of. I could probably only come up with ten on top of my head unless asked specifically about them.

We ourselves often forgets important mechanics. One infamous occasion was the magic weapons of Caelum that was suddenly rediscovered months after Dom I was released.

Re: yeah, but what about the manual?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Ah, so we're in this together... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

In any case, thanks for the kind replies to all. As I said, I'm the kind of person whose appreciation of the game tends to additionaly grow with the knowledge about its mechanics. I know that I can get the answers here on the forums, but I was just wondering about the manual itself, and having all the info in one place from the people in the know.
Cheers

Re: yeah, but what about the manual?
 

I've been trying hard to get as much hard detail as possible into the manual, but there's just so MUCH!!!!! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

Hopefully, it'll thoroughly cover the basics, and since there's just so much advanced stuff . . . well, as much as can be fitted in will be, but I know there will be unanswered questions. Luckily, I think there will be answers found here, and an Online FAQ gathering them together sounds like a great idea to me.

Re: yeah, but what about the manual?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">some months after you we discovered that too (by testbeds after strong suspicions) and much to my dismay, it has never been judged too strong.

Re: yeah, but what about the manual?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Are you helping write it?

Re: yeah, but what about the manual?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Thanks for the effort! This number-cruncher will surely appreciate it. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Being a scientist I can't help it. Like children, we revel in taking things apart to see how they work.

Re: yeah, but what about the manual?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">The parrot is busy right now editing the manual. ... actually he is probably at work, but the manual is at his place at least. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/rolleyes.gif