Theme knowledge
 

It just occurred to me -- are themes public knowledge? Do I need to see the population in my border province sinking to know it's the Ashen Empire? If Illwinter has prevented people from promptly ganging up on Ermor then I love it.

Re: Theme knowledge
 

unless you are of the Warmonger PRT, you cant see design before engaging into battles.

oops.

Re: Theme knowledge
 

That's an interesting twist which I hadn't thought of either - it seems you might be less certain in Dom II what the counter to your opponents is, until you see them in action.

Not only the themes, but the blessing effects also are going to make a difference that you can't tell beforehand. Interesting. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Theme knowledge
 

Yes, Ermor migth be tame as a kitten when using Broken Empire, at least when you compare Broken Empire to Ashen Empire, and Pangaea can be killing the land with Carrior Woods.

Jotunheim migth be harvesting blood slaves to cast Illwinter at turn 25 when playing with Niefelheim.

Caelum migth be making the largest Undead army there is with Return of Raptors.

Marignon migth happily summoning Demons when using Diabolic Faith theme.

Intresting twist indeed...

Re: Theme knowledge
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Indeed. That'll make early scouting even more important, which is a good thing IMO.

I wonder how scouting will work in Doms II. In Doms I a scout/spy provided no knowledge on the scales of the province he was in. Which seems a bit odd - aren't scouts not supposed to feel the heat or the cold, or notice if people in a province are industrious or not, if the flora and fauna are thriving or if "corpses litter the landscape", etc.

Re: Theme knowledge
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Indeed. That'll make early scouting even more important, which is a good thing IMO.

I wonder how scouting will work in Doms II. In Doms I a scout/spy provided no knowledge on the scales of the province he was in. Which seems a bit odd - aren't scouts not supposed to feel the heat or the cold, or notice if people in a province are industrious or not, if the flora and fauna are thriving or if "corpses litter the landscape", etc.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Scouting is still the same as far as dominions go. Normal scout can only see what forces are in provinces (not very accurate), can't see exact local defense in province and can see who owns neighboring provinces. Basically they are only to see who owns what province and to maybe spy on some battles. Spy’s are far better comparing to scouts since they can see much more accurately forces in province, sometimes they see who is commander in province, can se exact defense force in province, can see discovered special sites in enemy provinces, and can instill uprisings in enemy provinces (increase unrest for those new to the game).

Of new races both Tien Chi and Machaka have spies (looking at default dominions, no special themes). Machaka also has assassin but assassin work the same way as scout with the exception of assassinating enemy commanders. Spy is still better to get info.

It's good point about feeling enemy dominion, but you can only see enemy dominions that border your dominion and nothing further.

Re: Theme knowledge
 

[quote]Originally posted by Nagot Gick Fel:

Quote:

I wonder how scouting will work in Doms II. In Doms I a scout/spy provided no knowledge on the scales of the province he was in. Which seems a bit odd - aren't scouts not supposed to feel the heat or the cold, or notice if people in a province are industrious or not, if the flora and fauna are thriving or if "corpses litter the landscape", etc.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Excellent point. Now how would you recommend making scouts different than spys? I think of scouts as getting a wider, faster lay of the land. Spys would be more specific info on the province they are in. Maybe scouts should be able to get some small bits of info from provinces next to the one they are in other than just whether or not there is a castle there.

Re: Theme knowledge
 

[quote]Originally posted by Gandalf Parker:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Originally posted by Nagot Gick Fel:

Quote:

I wonder how scouting will work in Doms II. In Doms I a scout/spy provided no knowledge on the scales of the province he was in. Which seems a bit odd - aren't scouts not supposed to feel the heat or the cold, or notice if people in a province are industrious or not, if the flora and fauna are thriving or if "corpses litter the landscape", etc.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Excellent point. Now how would you recommend making scouts different than spys? I think of scouts as getting a wider, faster lay of the land. Spys would be more specific info on the province they are in. Maybe scouts should be able to get some small bits of info from provinces next to the one they are in other than just whether or not there is a castle there.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">You can see enemy castles in neighbouring provinces.

Re: Theme knowledge
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">In Doms I spys are just better scouts with a couple extra abilities (spot sites, instill uprising) and I'm happy with that. I have a few ideas on how to add flavour to the many scout variants - eg, a forester catched by enemy patrols in a forest province could retreat to an unowned neighboring province instead of dying - a Mother of Avalon or Dryad could attempt to trigger a Vine Ogre invasion (like the random event), etc. Funny things like that, although not necessary to the game.

Re: Theme knowledge
 

One thing I can think of I found lacking from dominions 1 was that although you could see hostile domain....you never knew who's hostile domain it was. You could guess some from the scale setup but it would be nice if it just said who had domain in a province as part of the description along with ownership.

Re: Theme knowledge
 

I would like that scouts/spies would give you info about the scales in the province.

Adding flavour to scout variants would also be nice.

Re: Theme knowledge
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I do like the idea of adding more stealth options - maybe adding certain rituals which are only castable while stealthy in hostile territory. Of course you'd need to figure out how to make them work without a lab somehow. It would make sense that a stealthy nature-mage (such as a Mother of Avalon or Druid) could go behind enemy lines and try to raise natural forces against them - it would add a nice extra strategic element, if it was balanced.

Perhaps another ability of stealthy mages would be to alter the scales of the hostile province they were in - so a death mage could sneak into an enemy's territory and start spreading death/blight. Similarly a fire mage could enact some covert rituals to heat the place up a little.

It would be interesting (though perhaps too detailed) if, for example, the forester was better at hiding in provinces with lots of forests (and worse in tundra), or the Abysian assassin was better at hiding in warm provinces (and worse in cold provinces), etc. But this would mainly be a colourful detail. The other stuff (above) I think would be cool and might add to the 'special ops' side of the game.

Re: Theme knowledge
 

For the rituals... It would be a normal ritual, but instead of resolving instantly it would give you a pentagram or some such marker, giving you an ability to once something happen in the province you use it (thourgh the <>). Like independent forces coming to conquer a province.

I can't really see any use for mages' anility to alter the scales of a province. Mages are too costly for that. And situations in which I could do nothing better than this are rare... But I like it. Just like the little bonuses in stats. Elegant.

[ October 15, 2003, 19:54: Message edited by: Endoperez ]

Re: Theme knowledge
 

The scout/spy aspect of Dom I was weak. It was hard to gather good info on your opponents. Frankly, I would often "scout" my neighbors by running armies through their territory.

I'd like to see a major boost to the info gathered by spies and scouts. They cost precious gold and get caught often. They should bring in some serious information while alive (IMHO).

Re: Theme knowledge
 

Spy/Assassin "Make Booby Traps" command. Then, in the next battle in the province, some squares have pitfalls/trip wires/snares, and so forth, that only affect hostile forces (that is, forces other than those of the spy's nation). This could be done in hostile or friendly provinces.

Re: Theme knowledge
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">This is making no sense. A province is supposed to be huge, however if you place like 100.000.000 traps, perhaps a light infantry unit will step into one. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Re: Theme knowledge
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Don't be silly - they don't have to blanket the whole province. They aren't THAT dumb, or they'd flunk Spy School. No, the spy would just put booby-traps on the battlefield! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

Re: Theme knowledge
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I think this is a cute idea.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Realism in Dominions? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Anyway huge provinces don't imply you'll find many good spots to set a battlefield up, and there were several historical battles where booby traps were actually used by the defender. What about allowing them only in provinces you control, and having them disappear once a battle is fought here?

Re: Theme knowledge
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Sounds like it would work. As I said before, I think it would add a lot to be able to do more with stealthy units. BTW I suppose you're right about the whole better-things-to-do-with-a-mage thing.

I do like the idea of certain stealthy units being able to set booby traps by the way. I would like to see more covert ops possibilities.

Re: Theme knowledge
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I envision it as being like the Ewok battle in Star Wars VI http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Theme knowledge
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I envision it as being like the Ewok battle in Star Wars VI http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">lol http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ October 16, 2003, 05:53: Message edited by: st.patrik ]

Re: Theme knowledge
 

The Scouts (as in the proper name) are distinguished by their cheapness. They don't have any other special abilities, but that's enough for me because most nations have other stealthy troops available already.

For example, T'ien Chi has the Imperial Consort, a charming lady who is also an expert spy. Machaka has the Eyes of the Lord (or is it the Ears of the Lord? I forget which one is which right now) who is a stealthy priest. He lacks full spying power, but, heck, he can preach!

Edit: Almost forgot! There's no direct info on what themes opposing nations have picked, but it is usually pretty obvious when you get a report or two on their troops. The nature of their Pretender God is revealed by the nifty new titles they receive based on their powers.

[ October 16, 2003, 23:59: Message edited by: Psitticine ]

Re: Theme knowledge
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">He has full syping power (gets all info like normal spy). That is why he costs 70 gold. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif