Man, this game is great ...
 

hi all,

I´m using 1.19 with the modpack 1.0 and it kicks my a** . Very nice ...

Large Cluster, ten races, only met the Balboar and the Xianthi. The Xianthi and my race are at war since turn three.

The Ai masses ships, uses good designs ( as far as I can see ), and generally is murderous.

The most fun I´ve had with a 4x game since Ashes of empires .

Thanks to the modders this thing rocks.

------------------

Re: Man, this game is great ...
 

Really?

I thought it made the game more fun because of the added flavour of the Earth Alliance, Darloks and Serengeti. But I didn't notice that it made the game any more difficult.

'coure, I never ran into the Earth Alliance until *after* I'd researched Point Defense Cannon V's and amassed my own huge fighter wings.

Re: Man, this game is great ...
 

Balboar and the Xianthi???
Where did you get these races?

Re: Man, this game is great ...
 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Emperor Zodd:
Balboar and the Xianthi???
Where did you get these races?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

They are two of the twenty races that ship with the original game.

Re: Man, this game is great ...
 

They must be neutral races.
I dont play the game using neutral races.

Re: Man, this game is great ...
 

The Xiati are not a neutral race. To me they look like punkers with staples in their head and mouth.

Re: Man, this game is great ...
 

The Xianthi are not a neutral race.

Re: Man, this game is great ...
 

I have no races named Balboar and the Xianthi in my copy of the game!

How can you have races that came with the game that I don't have?

Re: Man, this game is great ...
 

Tomgs,were not talking about the Xiati at all.

Re: Man, this game is great ...
 

Emperor Zodd: We might be talking about the "Xiati"; it's the only race whose name looks even remotely like "Xianthi"... BTW, I found a race called the "Bobroba" (in Neutral001), which might be the "Balboar" that Bluecher mentioned. After all, not all of us are perfect spellers with photographic recall of the wacky names used in the game...

Re: Man, this game is great ...
 

If so,I never seen anyone misspell two words so badly. They aren't even close!

Am I the only one here that can tell the difference between Xianthi and Xiati, also Balboar and Bobroba?

Maybe you guys should not stay up so late playing the game? LOL




[This message has been edited by Emperor Zodd (edited 29 January 2001).]

Re: Man, this game is great ...
 

Hi all,

well, I´m sorry for my terrible spelling skillz ... Director Tsaarx is right .

Xiati and Bobroba are the races.

Ummm and I forgot to mention that I installed this :

---------------------------------------------
AI Update 1.00
1/25/2001
For use only with Space Empires IV Version 1.19

This is an overall update to the AI Diplomacy tactics for all default races and neutral empires.


INSTALLATION of Files.

The neutral races files go into the folder in Space Empires IV\AI

The default races go into their respective folder in Space Empires IV\Pictures\Races

LIST OF CHANGES/MODIFICATIONS:

MOD Version 1.00

1.) To many to name.

If you have any questions or concerns please email me at abqaiq93@hotmail.com

---------------------------------------------

Anyway the game rocks.

Re: Man, this game is great ...
 

Don't worry about it... contrary to what EZ thinks, lots of people here have trouble with spelling, not to mention English grammar (in their defense, some of them are not native English speakers). Of course, the other problem, as I alluded to, is remembering the names of the races. I just remember what the race (and/or ships) look like, rather than the names. Kinda like I do with people - I never forget a face, but I frequently forget names... http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/ima...ons/icon12.gif

And we don't want to scare off someone who thinks the game is great!!! We have a couple people lurking around who don't like the game very much, because the AI isn't tough enough for them. I figure they've either gotten lucky, played the game on too easy a setting, or they don't think that spending 500+ turns trying to get out of Last place is difficult. Or they've used "power gamer" tricks (serious min/maxing of attributes, not using the "All players start on equal size planets" option and then choosing Gas Giant for themselves). I could go on, but it's not necessary. I agree that the AI could be improved; it could even be designed to min/max its attributes (this might even add a little variety to the races), but the game shouldn't be dismissed because the designers didn't make the AI impossible to beat on the high difficulty settings. (BTW - try high difficulty and one of the computer bonus levels; even Low Bonus helps the computer players quite a bit; for even more excitement, allow players to start in the same system rather than evenly distributed). Besides, the AI will never have the ultimate human player weapon: reload saved game http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/ima...ons/icon12.gif .

Re: Man, this game is great ...
 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Emperor Zodd:
If so,I never seen anyone misspell two words so badly. They aren't even close!

Am I the only one here that can tell the difference between Xianthi and Xiati, also Balboar and Bobroba?

Maybe you guys should not stay up so late playing the game?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

If you're gonna fit two or three 30 hour games into a week, you have to give up a few minor things like sleep and spelling http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Man, this game is great ...
 

For a moment there I thought you guys had a different Version of the game than I got! LOL

By the way Raynor, it's not Serengeti,(thats in Africa),it's Sergetti. LOL

I thought I was a bad speller?! LOL

[This message has been edited by Emperor Zodd (edited 29 January 2001).]

Re: Man, this game is great ...
 

To DirectorTsaarx:

No. There are actually folks out there who go out of their way to make the game more difficult and still find it to be quite easy.

Maybe those of who think the AI is a little easy are seasoned players of classics such as Civ, CivII, MOO, MOO2, Alpha Centauri, etc. Or maybe, we think it is easy because we NEVER, EVER use the ministers but instead micro-manage everything. After all... the micromanagement in this game isn't quite so bad as Civ, for example. http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

On high difficulty, high races, max bonus, the AI massively out researches you and out intelligences you. But it still makes extremely poor choices for what to build on planets. So, it may build 25 research facilities on a huge world with 150% minerals. This hurts it quite a lot. I think the main problem with the AI is that it doesn't evaluate planets galaxy or even system-wide. This is a pretty major whole in the AI and one which really limits its effectiveness on any difficulty level with any bonus setting. This isn't a problem in CivII or Alpha Centauri because you don't have production facilities for each of the three resources. Instead, every colony gets a little of each. It just gets more if the settler units develop them a bit. SE IV is more interesting but harder to design the AI.

The AI in CivII seems to be pretty good at beginning an attack, maintaining the attack and continuing until you are utterly destroyed. SE IV, here I can't even qualify it as AI, instead rolls the dice and says: Well, if I attack him ever so often, he won't go to sleep. It doesn't really matter where I attack or for how long or if I attack even every planet in the system. What is more important is that I attack him enough that he knows I'm still out there. Too often, the AI will have ships in a system but not attack every colony until they are all destroyed. Once it starts attacking, it doesn't finish off the entire system. Instead it either sits there or pulls its ships out. For the most part, I feel like I have to put my ships next to his before he'll attack them. http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

Of course, we know that the AI has no ability to design its ships based upon what you are sending against it. It can't choose what to build based on the moment. Instead, it builds a certain number of the same exact ships no matter what it is faced by. Compare this to the very best TB game out there: Alpha Centauri. AC gives you some great choices when designing units. But they are pitiful in comparison to SE IV. SE IV rocks. But all those different unit types make the AI's job just that much more difficult.

Let's look at SE IV from a basic military point of view. What are some good objectives in warfare?

1. Pick your battles.
2. Attack with overwhelming force.
3. Fight on as few fronts as possible.

What does that mean? Well, the human player focuses all his forces on two or three wormholes leading into his systems. Once you do that, SE IV doesn't have a chance. The game has no concept of defending choke points with EVERYTHING you've got. Sure, it will build a few mines and a few satellites here and there. It does very well building huge numbers of WEP's on its homeworld. But it doesn't seem to position its ships in any sort of strategic fashion. This makes it easy for even a weaker human player to systematically destroy the computer player's fleets.

Once again, I want you to know that I have a lot of fun playing this game. Personally, I *like* winning. But this max bonus game was the first challenging game I had ever had. But the challenge was short lived. It took longer to build defenses at my choke points. But once I had, the game was over. Oh, and I didn't use mines until the AI did. Once he started sending Mine Sweeper IV's through, I didn't feel so guilty.

Let me hasten to add that the AI is getting better with each patch. Even with a simpleton AI, the game is a bLast to play. And the ability to customize so many different things. Outstanding. I'll say it again, in case you didn't read a previous post, Aaron is a genius! The modders are brilliant. I can't wait to see what Mephisto pulls out of his hat next. Again, I apologize for not remembering other Modder's names. Rambie is a genius with the graphics.

The game is a winner. Buy it. Recommend it to your friends. Let's make Aaron a millionaire. But let's be honest. The AI is about the only weakness in this awesomely great game. ('Course, I wouldn't mind if it stopped crashing on me...)

Re: Man, this game is great ...
 

Well maybe we will get TCP/IP play soon,and we can play all weekend marathons!

Re: Man, this game is great ...
 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Emperor Zodd:
Well maybe we will get TCP/IP play soon,and we can play all weekend marathons!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I hope so! I didn't get that DSL connection for nothing. http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Man, this game is great ...
 

I have a cable modem,and I think it will be a totally different game once we play each other!

[This message has been edited by Emperor Zodd (edited 29 January 2001).]

Re: Man, this game is great ...
 

The AI is good for practice,but for real war and excitement you need to play against a crafty human!!!!

Re: Man, this game is great ...
 

Raynor:

1. Poor Choices building on Planets:

Goto Default_AI_Construction_Facilities, this is where the ai models itself on what to build. If you have the default Version(as in not made any changes yet) you will see that for most colony types they have like six options. If you check out the latest mod pack 1.01 I think and look at the Darlock file (Dalock_Ai_Construction_Facilities) it has twenty-six options on what to build. Copy this and make it the default one and all ai races will build colonies with many more varied facilities. Next go to Default_Ai_Planet_Types, you will see a list of different choices the ai makes in order for pick a planet for a specific colony type.
There has been numerous Posts about modding this document, so trying searching for it on the board.

2. The way Ai attacks other races:
I've done some recent modding on all default races making them actually do what their race description says. With future patches and/or more upgrades to my mod, the aggressive/war monging races will attack faster and longer than the default files are currently set for.

3. the AI has no ability to design its ships:

This problem can be fixed/modded in the file called Default_Ai_Design_Creation. You can make the ships hold and carry whatever you want. I haven't played with this much yet, but if you want the ai to be able to build better ships and what them to have the weapon capability to handle numerous situations, then this is the file to mod.

All the things you have mentioned can be improved ten times over, someone has to do it first. With all the other modders and myself we will sooner or later fix all this, unless of course this stuff is covered in next few patches. But anyway, if you want a challenging game and be a huge help to this community, then start reading/editing the data files and make changes that improve the ai. I think that is how all the modders so far have gotten started. You bring up very good points and you're right the game is awesome. But each time someone Posts a new mod that helps make the game more realistic,
the better the game gets. I hope this answers some of your concerns, I hope you have the time/desire to fix/revise any of this above mentioned. If you have any questions let me know. http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Man, this game is great ...
 

As I have said before, guess ahm an idjit as I have only beaten the AI once and that was a neutral, 1-system race and the only other opponent I had!

So sure I out-resourced it.

But since then and I only give the AI medium ability, low extra and medium #'s and it still knocks the stuffing outta me. But guess what, I do not care....one day I WILL beat it...this is a challenge for me. and yes, I have played Civ 2, alpha centauri and MOO2...still this one beats them hands down...IMO anyways.

Re: Man, this game is great ...
 

SunDevil,

I hope you are right about being able to correct some of these deficiences through mods. Won't know until I try.

I wonder how far one could tweak it with mods. For example, is there a limit on starting technologies for a race? My apologies if it has been asked before.

But your most excellent post makes me wonder how the Borg race is coming. What would happen if you created a race that started out with a ton of technologies and its first ship design was a dreadnaught? Can you do this with mods?

Thanks.

Re: Man, this game is great ...
 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Emperor Zodd:
I have a cable modem,and I think it will be a totally different game once we play each other!
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

*Cowering in the corner*

Uh... I'm scared. Cloaking, boarding ships, mines, stellar manipulation. I'm too young to die!

http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Man, this game is great ...
 

raynor - didn't mean to offend those of you who are trying to get a good game out of the AI; I was aiming my post at those few gamers who give their race every possible bonus (including minimizing certain "unused" traits - I believe the favorite of these is physical strength, since many people prefer to force a surrender rather than invade - and use the extra racial points to increase, say, ship combat to incredible levels) and then complain about how "easy" the AI is.

Anyway, as I stated in my Last post, another tweak for the AI may be using the player strategy above - decrease certain stats to match the race descriptions, and use the extra points to give them better bonuses in stats that also match the descriptions. For instance, the Amonkrie should probably have their physical strength reduced and ship combat increased (From the Amonkrie_AI_General file: "Though physically weak, they make up for it with powerful warships."). However, I also recall reading somewhere on this board that trying to mod the AI to take advantage of this isn't really working. But it's certainly another place to "improve" the AI.

I also applaud the modders' efforts in improving the AI - although the AI also has to learn how to use some of their facilities after they've built them. I destroyed a planet that had a ship training facility and a fleet training facility, but there were no ships at all in that system; I don't even think there was a space yard nearby. I also found a planet with the "Events Predictor" (temporal facility that improves combat response); again, no ships anywhere in the system. Although this one at least had a space yard, but still...

Anyway, I again apologize if I offended you, raynor; by now, we're probably all "preaching to the choir" about how to make the game challenging for you experts out there. Personally, I considered myself an expert at the Space Empires series; I've played SEII and SEIII, and beat the AI's rather handily in both. But the AI in SEIV is giving me more of a run for my money. It's not perfect, and I would be dead ten times over against a human opponent (this time - I haven't been nearly as aggressive as I could be, since I _want_ the game to Last a while), but I think this AI is actually an improvement over SEII & SEIII. It certainly colonizes a lot faster than it used to, and is a bit more aggressive about ship building; but you're right about not attacking often enough. I tend to attack every planet in a system within the space of two turns (three if there are a lot of planets and/or they're spread out), but the AI only seems to attack one planet at a time. I'm sure there are reasons for this, but it could probably be improved anyway. The AI also doesn't seem to be moving colonists around very well - I've found a lot of low pop colonies, and have yet to find a cargo transport (not to mention I have half (!) the colonies of the strongest opponent, yet twice the population).

Re: Man, this game is great ...
 

Raynor:

The file you would need to mod is in the data file folder. It's called TechArea.txt. The only problem you would run into, is that all races would get a technology bonus, not just your race. I haven't ever heard of being able to have seperate data files per race. If you can, then your suggestion is possible. If I were you I would post this suggestion in its own topic and see if anyone knows for sure if you can/can't have seperate unique data files per race. Remember I'm taking about the files in the data folder NOT the ai default files. I hope this helps.

[This message has been edited by SunDevil (edited 30 January 2001).]