lab vault upgraded?
 

How the laboratory item vault evolved from dominions I? Specifically, how many slots do we have to store items?
reminder : the restriction on 14 slots led to two things :

1- having to store excess items on placeholders leaders, which was bothersome somehow.
2- item bombing abuse : most often than not it was not voluntary from the player doing that, but still a pain. Is this fixed?


Lastly, do we have a tool which can tell us where our items are on our leaders? A search box, or a table listing items possessed on all leaders? try to find your staff of storm in a big game, you will understand the problem...

thanks in advance for the answer.

Re: lab vault upgraded?
 

The lab has been enlarged quite a bit. It now has 50 slots and that should be more slots than you have unused items plus some more.

Re: lab vault upgraded?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">fair enough then.

just in case : are national forging a priority over item gift? It was the reverse in doms I, so the problem.

Re: lab vault upgraded?
 

The priorities are still the same, but surely you should be able to spare some slots for gifts as well.

Re: lab vault upgraded?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Ah very good. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: lab vault upgraded?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Good questions....and the answers are? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/confused.gif </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">no answer is an anwser...

human behavior 101 : when a question is ignored, then the answer is no/we dont know/we dont feel its of importance/we wont change our mind.

choose one http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ October 21, 2003, 13:06: Message edited by: Pocus ]

Re: lab vault upgraded?
 

But those are important questions! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: lab vault upgraded?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">for you and me I suppose. I believe there is no tools for searching where is located a given item (artefact) or class of item (the others) as of now. I was just throwing the question into the air, in case one of the dev would concur it would be of interest to have such a tool.

Re: lab vault upgraded?
 

Correct, there is no search function for magic items and you cannot deconstruct magic items either.

Re: lab vault upgraded?
 

That search function would be very helpful Johan. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: lab vault upgraded?
 

Any consideration for an option to destroy at a lab? Kindof a de-construct to partially recover some of the gems? Other games have it.

Im just a horrible packrat and I cant stand to simply destroy something I found. Im thinking that unless its harder it would make sense for this to be something where the item should have to be in a lab.

Re: lab vault upgraded?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Good questions....and the answers are? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/confused.gif

Re: lab vault upgraded?
 

I second that this search would be most welcome. If it will be possible, than implent this feature, please.

Re: lab vault upgraded?
 

I don't like the idea of searching for magic items. It would require a button which complicates the interface. And it feels like a cumbersome thing to make in a good way. Also it doesn't feel important unless you play a very large game.

Re: lab vault upgraded?
 

I think most of us love to play huge games. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
Well I think the search option would be nice, but it is not a must have...

[ October 22, 2003, 21:50: Message edited by: Mortifer ]

Re: lab vault upgraded?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Being able to give people titles only viewable by oneself (which I believe was mentioned as patch material) alleviates most of the problem, and is simple and general purpose.

A search interface just for items doesn't seem worth it to me. However, a generalized search filter for leaders based upon a selectable range of critea (magic skill, items, type, etc.) would be cool. Then again, it'd also be alot of work.

An alternative would be a function that simply dumped all leader information to a text file, which would be much easier. This could then be searched in a text editor, or used as input for a 3rd party tool. IIRC Stars! had something like this for sharing info with other players.

Re: lab vault upgraded?
 

The one case where I'd really have liked a search for magic items would be to find the items recovered after a large battle involving quite a few commanders -- e.g. after Pythium with a communicant horde.

This could be alleviated without a full-blown search if, say, the battle report had "Commander Foo picked up ..." and made 'em links to the commander, but I don't know how much work that would be.

Re: lab vault upgraded?
 

Note that I really really like Jasper's idea. Some way to save commander status or even more..like known world status...into a text file for inspection or use in 3d party programs could be really nice.

It would be really nice if allies could send map data and a program could combine multiple map data files so an alliance could better coordinate. Of course nobody will stop you from "editing" the data file before you send it. Maybe there could even be a program for falsifying data files. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

That could be fun.

Re: lab vault upgraded?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">This is one part of the DomI interface I didn't like: it's very hard to get a global, or even local, synthetic view of your empire/armies. I mean, you can't even see a list of the units/items led by a single commander - you have to count them yourself; and you don't get a detailed list of casualties after a battle, either. This made it way too hard for me to really get a feel for how the various units worked.

Re: lab vault upgraded?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Ah yes, that's really one of the more tedious points of Doms interface - how many units does each respective commander has under his command at a moment? Can I give him another 5 or just 3, and how many should I build then? The "fullness" bars were not really useful for this. Hopefully this has been improved in Doms II.

Re: lab vault upgraded?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">ok, taking a deep breath now, but I feel it is my duty to put a recurring problem on the discussion table (telling something that many thinks without daring to speak):

...and again we bump against the style of play that the IW team practice, small to medium games, versus large games (or medium games with a long duration, often the case in pbem) that fans prefers.
I suppose you never used Forge of the Ancients to produce mass of items too (200 items created in 15 turns for example).
And no its not producing items for the sake of producing items. An astral nation with the majority of his mages with spell foci and rune smashers is not a secondary advantage.

Before you flame away, can we have the official position of IW on what they feel is important versus what fans feel is important? Is our opinion really requested, or is this forum just a a place where fans asks for tech questions, and you respond, and thats all?

=>
Is it possible to think that you might consider some of the features requested by fans, even if you deem the feature of poor importance? I need a clarification on this. I make no idea about myself, I'm just lambda fan amongst many others, but at least knowing your position will help me posting (to be exact help me not posting). Perhaps there is a good half of all discussions here pointless if you think that you (the IW team) and only you decide what will make Dominions.

Last, but not least, I dont want the discussion to drift into this silly attitude that we (excluding the team here) are customers and vote with our purse. I like the game, I really like it (my preferred game since I play, roughly 1980 I will say). It even pushed Master of Magic in my heart, and it was not an easy task. I'm just asking that you take notice that you are selling a game, so it means you want people to play with it. The time were you made a game for your sole pleasure has ended, I hope you realized that. This is a fact, people play with a game because they find features in it that please them.

Hope you will take this post for what it is, a constructive critic.

[ October 23, 2003, 07:37: Message edited by: Pocus ]

Re: lab vault upgraded?
 

Nice post Pocus, and I agree.

The search feature: Can you tell me that why it is not so important? In big games it is hellish hard to manage the items/commanders, so a search option for magic items would be VERY helpful.

Re: lab vault upgraded?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I agree. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/blush.gif

Re: lab vault upgraded?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I like this idea much better. It would also make it possible to make a print out of all your provinces and commanders which you can then use to take notes on, read on the train or whatever.

Re: lab vault upgraded?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I like this idea much better. It would also make it possible to make a print out of all your provinces and commanders which you can then use to take notes on, read on the train or whatever. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Well than add this at least?
Still the previous idea is lot better, IE a search option in game.
So you don't wanna add that search feature, because you are lazy?

This reminds me of Kristoffer's post in the Diplomacy thread. He said that JK is bored by AI scripting........
I really don't like this attitude. IW should listen to the fans, Pocus was right: you want us to buy the game, don't you?

Re: lab vault upgraded?
 

Guys, they cannot listen to _every_ fan. It's impossible to satisfy everybody.

If there's a particular issue you consider important argument 'how much better' it would make the game, and maybe you will see it imped, or maybe not. The designers might disagree, or not have the time for it, or it might be impossible to implement code-wise.

Re: lab vault upgraded?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I like this idea much better. It would also make it possible to make a print out of all your provinces and commanders which you can then use to take notes on, read on the train or whatever. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">It'd be especially cool if what you dump out could be read back into by another player, so you could share intelligence. Even better, if you could read in your own older turns, which would make keeping track of persistant information you can no longer see much easier.

Re: lab vault upgraded?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">You're insulting the _lone_ developer, who almost certainly already has way more to do than he has time for. It's one thing to talk about possible extensions and changes, it's quite another to demand _your_ ideas be implemented.

Why not relax a bit, and give these guys a break?

Re: lab vault upgraded?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">This is one of the things that you could alleviate up to a point with the renaming feature:

My SoS bearer is often called Stormbringer for example, George used to rename his communion slaves to reflect their task, I sometimes rename support mages (etherealizers...) & commanders that require script with numerals (bad for RP, but sometimes the MM & confussion from duplicated names is too daunting...it even gets to a point that sometimes I do not care about giving info to my opponents if it makes my gaming more pleasant (they see the leading guy name in their province reports obviously).

Pls keep renaming (or at the least tags) in the game. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: lab vault upgraded?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I hope you saw in my post that I was not asking the devs that they ought to include every single bit of feature everybody asked (which would be a rather impossible and anyway undersirable task) .

That they include or not a search function is not fundamental, I was heading to the principle : is it possible that they, sometime, code a feature because we the fans perceive it as important, or is it a definitive no? I dont remember that they ever changed their mind on a feature they didnt liked initialy. Feel free to refresh my mind if I miss something.

remember the thread about army destruction spells? Reread it, you will see that :
1 - nearly all (or is it all) fans expressed their view that they were somehow too potents/convenients.
2- no devs made a remark. Why? because they disagreed and they felt it was like this and not in any other way.

btw data dumping is fine for me. I remember with fondness these 3rd party Stars! utils which were doing that. Very practical.

M. Stravos : You position is far more rigid than the one I have. I, personally, can understand that they have the right to not accept 90% of the requests we have (requests asked by more than one person whats more, not speaking of every single concept everybody has 20 times a day!). What I would not like is a percentage of 100% denial.

Re: lab vault upgraded?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">This is one of the things that you could alleviate up to a point with the renaming feature:

My SoS bearer is often called Stormbringer for example, George used to rename his communion slaves to reflect their task, I sometimes rename support mages (etherealizers...) & commanders that require script with numerals (bad for RP, but sometimes the MM & confussion from duplicated names is too daunting...it even gets to a point that sometimes I do not care about giving info to my opponents if it makes my gaming more pleasant (they see the leading guy name in their province reports obviously).

Pls keep renaming (or at the least tags) in the game. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif [/QB]</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">This would not solve the problem of having to search who got your air ship. Is it a firbolg in the north for a raid, or you wyrm moving to the south? You will end searching amongst some dozen provinces which of your leader got the item.

Sure if your game is small, you wont even have the problem. But for the rest?

Re: lab vault upgraded?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">You're insulting the _lone_ developer, who almost certainly already has way more to do than he has time for. It's one thing to talk about possible extensions and changes, it's quite another to demand _your_ ideas be implemented.

Why not relax a bit, and give these guys a break? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Dude, I tell you what. IMHO waiting for an addon with a decent ingame feature -like the search- is lot better, than to have some simple .txt file with the datas.
Just my 2 cents.

Pocus is right again, the devs are ignoring lot of questions, just check out the threads. They are reading all Posts, but they are ignoring some important questions. That is the fact. I know that they are worked a lot on the game, but still this is kinda annoying if you ask me.
These ideas are good, in fact very good. Don't tell me that an in-game search is bad, because its ridicolous. I think that they don't wanna code it....OR as Pocus said:


""remember the thread about army destruction spells? Reread it, you will see that :
1 - nearly all (or is it all) fans expressed their view that they were somehow too potents/convenients.
2- no devs made a remark. Why? because they disagreed and they felt it was like this and not in any other way.""


..maybe they don't like the idea. I think the fans opinion is lot more important. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/rolleyes.gif

Pocus we have the same ideas, the only difference is that I am saying what I really want to. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ October 23, 2003, 12:00: Message edited by: MStavros ]

Re: lab vault upgraded?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Not particularly talking about you, I had just read a few threads with escalating demands ( demands of the 'insist until you get an answer' type + 'keep insisting afterwards because you do not like the answer you got).

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">None of us can say for sure without confirmation from the devs, but I'd say that Storms, Supercombatants & the GUI have been tweaked with because of fan feedback.

Re: lab vault upgraded?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">You're insulting the _lone_ developer, who almost certainly already has way more to do than he has time for. It's one thing to talk about possible extensions and changes, it's quite another to demand _your_ ideas be implemented.

Why not relax a bit, and give these guys a break? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Dude, I tell you what. IMHO waiting for an addon with a decent ingame feature -like the search- is lot better, than to have some simple .txt file with the datas.
Just my 2 cents.

Pocus is right again, the devs are ignoring lot of questions, just check out the threads. They are reading all Posts, but they are ignoring some important questions. That is the fact. I know that they are worked a lot on the game, but still this is kinda annoying if you ask me.
These ideas are good, in fact very good. Don't tell me that an in-game search is bad, because its ridicolous. I think that they don't wanna code it....OR as Pocus said:


""remember the thread about army destruction spells? Reread it, you will see that :
1 - nearly all (or is it all) fans expressed their view that they were somehow too potents/convenients.
2- no devs made a remark. Why? because they disagreed and they felt it was like this and not in any other way.""


..maybe they don't like the idea. I think the fans opinion is lot more important. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/rolleyes.gif

Pocus we have the same ideas, the only difference is that I am saying what I really want to. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Well this was a little offensive, don't you think?
You have some points, but you forgot about one word: respect.
Respect IW and respect shrapnel, they did a decent job with the game.
Try to be patient, they will surely answer to all your questions.
They have the right to don't like something. I am pretty sure, that if many fans want a feature like this, they will try their best, and implent it.
Don't forget, lot of people wanted the mod tools, and IW already working on it.

Man I tell you that other devs cant be bothered by anything at all!
IW is a real jewel on the game devs list, they are always listeting to their fans.
I only know one cool game dev. company, they are like IW, they are interacting with their fans, and listeting to them: Timegate [makers of Kohan]

Final words: Be patient, and trust in the IW devs, if many of us want something, they will surely try to implent it.

Re: lab vault upgraded?
 

We've been through this before

1. No one currently gets paid for the work they do on dominions, people here have a life besides illwinter, people here have to make a living of other sources then illwinter. There is only one person that does allmost all of the coding. He cannot add every singel feature you want, he cannot even realistically add 10% of all the features you want, he couldnt he if could devout all his time to coding dom 2, he cannot devout 100% of his time to dom 2 coding. Ergo less then 10% of the requests you make can realistically be implemented.

2. Pocus, you say that you cannot recall a single instance where illwinter has come around and implemented fan requested features they initially didn't like. Fist of all it is not true, no one here is interested in modding, copying scripts has been added, teloportability of immobiles removed and many many more. There are perhaps fan requested ideas that have and will not ever be implemented, but implementing ideas just because they are popular is a crappy idea, they have to have some other merit as well, and this merit has to be judged by illwinter whether you like it or not, and its merit weighed against the effort to implement it and in game factors. A feature that is fun to add is of course more likely to be implemented since that is much less of a chore. If illwinter designed games by polling dom 2 would be a Sims like game where brightly dressed elves shot each other with multicolored rays of love. Dominions couldnt have been made if it wasnt made the way it is, if JK and Kristoffer didn't enjoy doing dominions it wouldn't have been made at all. Perhaps this leads to the exclusion of some features you desire, but unless dom 2 makes a big impact in illwinters coffers and a slave coder can be hired it is likely to remain this way. And it can't be all bad since this design process has lead to the game you say like more than any other for 20 years.

3. In general if you want to have a feature added, ask politely. People at illwinter are human and insults and outright demands doesn't improve your chances of having a request implemented. This goes for questions as well, if you wish to get an answer, be polite.

Re: lab vault upgraded?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">And remember in Doms I the cost of the Sphinx was upped to 100 gp for the same reason, while the devs argued it was fairly priced for a long time.

Re: lab vault upgraded?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">just for the record, I really prefer small games to large ones. To my mind it just becomes a logistical nightmare when you have a ton of commanders who you are trying to get all equipped, etc. So for me, small is good.

Having said all that, I can see how especially for larger games some kind of help in record-keeping would be nice.

Re: lab vault upgraded?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Now this is truly funny! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: lab vault upgraded?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Hell yah, I'd buy that game in a heart beat, come on IW give the fans what they really WANT!!! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

Some things just make waaaaay too much sense not to do... at least give us a brightly dressed elven pretender who spontaneously shoots beams of multicolored love rays! Oh and name him Nerfix or something http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: lab vault upgraded?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">That is a truly evil suggestion http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

...but I swear I'd have him as my pretender every time! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: lab vault upgraded?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I think I was polite enough. I don't think that my post was offensive.

Johan, I think you didn't read what we have posted. How do I know it?

'If illwinter designed games by polling dom 2 would be a Sims like game where brightly dressed elves shot each other with multicolored rays of love.'

Are you serious? So if we are asking for options like a search for magical items in game, that is bad? That will make the game look like Sims? Sorry but I am totally confused.
I think that everyone here had very good ideas.
The mod tools, the diplomacy system, the armor-weapon system, the search feature. These things would add a lot to the game. Don't tell me that these are bad ideas! You can't be serious if you say so..take a look at this wanted in-game search: what the hell is wrong with that? That would help a lot, if it would be implented. It is hard to believe that you don't see it...or don't wanna see it. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/rolleyes.gif

[ October 23, 2003, 16:13: Message edited by: MStavros ]

Re: lab vault upgraded?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I think this is pretty offensive - calling the devs lazy, criticizing their attitude, telling them what they *should* do.

Maybe you don't realise how it comes off when you say these things - but it doesn't come off as polite. It's a pretty good idea to read over your Posts before clicking the 'add reply' button, just to make sure you don't come off as offensive - remember that Messages like these are a pretty limited form of communication - no tone of voice, no body language to clarify your meaning.

Re: lab vault upgraded?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I have read what you have posted, and I did find the accusatory tones of your and Pocus Posts offensive. You call JK and Kristoffer lazy because they have to priorotise between ideas and do not have the resources to add any changes you can come up with. In my book that is offensive.

No the ideas are not bad, there is nothing bad about an ingame item search. But in your post you say that in game items search will not be added because JK doesnt want to code it. This is true in the same way it is true that you do not want to learn C and code it yourself, it is possible to do but it requires a lot of effort he think is better spent elswhere. Illwinter has limited resources and has to priorotise between additions, that is all there is to it, it will not change however much you complain about it, unless of course you plan on making a sizeable monetary contribution.

[ October 23, 2003, 16:37: Message edited by: johan osterman ]

Re: lab vault upgraded?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Because I work 70+50%=120% a week besides work on Dominions and only read these forums on my spare time.

There have been a lot of Posts lately.

[ October 23, 2003, 16:45: Message edited by: Kristoffer O ]

Re: lab vault upgraded?
 

Wow this sounds like familiar (and scarey) territory. Ive admined MUDs for decades and continually had to post reminders such as...

we arent getting paid
we have other responsibilitys
this is our game
we work first on things we like
asking nice and appreciation has been known to upgrade things into things we like

The scary part is that Ive seen disparaging comments cause MUDs to lose their best admins and programmers where all we got was one post saying "this isnt worth it, goodbye"

I dont get the impression that the crowd at Illwinter got rich from Dom 1. And the pricing structure on Dom 2 might make it seem like things have moved out of the please & thank you territory but remember that they havent seen that money yet either.

[ October 23, 2003, 16:52: Message edited by: Gandalf Parker ]

Re: lab vault upgraded?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Sorry but there was a post by Kristoffer that JK was bored by scripting something.....Guess you didnt saw that post.

I can understand that you don't like an idea, but you must agree that this search option should be a decent addition.
If Iw want to concentrate on something else, that is ok, but please consider to add things like this. This feature would be very, very, very helpful indeed.

Re: lab vault upgraded?
 

I raised the issue because of the initial remark of Johan K. For him it doesnt feel important to ask a search feature in-game.
My point remain valid : few things have been done so far to alleviate the end game micro. If you check back a poll on the most asked features, it was rather obvious that the people **which played doms I** were very concerned about the micromanaging problems of the end game.
I dont feel that I have been offensive, unless you put in the same bag the Posts of M. Starvos, which is somehow blunt in his comments, and Posts of mines.

The most offensive sentence I can think of is when I doubted that you implemented a feature which you did not like initially. Thats a rather harmless offense I would say, but if you feel it is one, then I have no problems apologizing for this part of the post.

Please take note also that I'm not asking for something fancy, like video of green elves dancing or whatever you spoke of. I'm asking for a mean to find items, which is a pain to do in big games. Aside from not liking the idea, why do you feel it is a detrimental feature to the game? I think I bring valid points on why it is of importance in big games.

And sorry if I bring again the topic, because on this I have not changed my mind : true, you have created a game which allow players - theorically - to play big & huge games. In practice it asks for the utmost motivation because of the lack of micromanaging tools. And the lack will remain, because you dont see the interests in these tools (see first sentence of the post...).

Re: lab vault upgraded?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I think you ought to hold your judgement on this issue until you have at least tried the demo.

Re: lab vault upgraded?
 

Illwinter is completely free to do whatever they want with their game. They CHOSE to make a game for our enjoyment (and their own) and we CHOSE to pay money to pay for it. It's nice that they listen to major points usually and make changes (commander scripting anyone?), but although pleasing customers is good for sales they aren't required, or even expected, to search through forum Posts for good ideas to implement.

From what I've heard most of the end game micro has been reduced already, as we now have:
*overview screens
*patrolling/taxes toned down
*easy scripting

and probably other things I forgot.

I think the text file output would be nice because it would be easier to implement, and it would allow you to find items or whatever you were looking for. I have no problem with Illwinter handing out the data for 3rd party programs to make pretty. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif Maybe I can gather some support on this here rather than just having people tell Illwinter what to do.

Re: lab vault upgraded?
 

Dominions is excellent, and many of the things I like most about it are its unique qualities which seem to be the unique things the developers thought were fun and interesting.

Dominions II looks like it will also be quite excellent. What I'm looking forward to the most are more neat things from the developers' imaginations.

Illwinter does great original work. They don't seem to need much help with player suggestions, although many of the suggestions are good and I'm sure often are helpful.

The fact that a game with such awesomely superior design and detail has come from folks working on their own time, deserves a lot of respect, not to mention politeness.

As cpbeller has posted on another thread, and as Richard has had to repeatedly mention and even close down threads (which he rarely has had to do on other forums), some of you folks, though intelligent and tasteful enough to choose and enjoy Dominions, have been very disappointingly insensitive in your statements towards others.

If you like Dominions, I suggest you try to be polite towards the developers and the other players. Your suggestions are welcome, but don't waste Illwinter's (or the players') time and attitude by behaving like a troll on their forums. They could've implemented a nice new feature with the time and energy they spent having to explain to you that swearing and calling them lazy is ridiculous behaviour, etc.

PvK