Why not two of same nation in game?
 

Civil wars are a fact of life, so why can't we have, say games with 2 Ulm KIngdoms warring against each other?

Again, immense strategic depth to game-play would be added whilst the central premise of the game would also be supported and taken to another level.

Pretend to be the pretender God of a nation pretending to Godhood status - in other words, a power struggle within a power struggle!

Re: Why not two of same nation in game?
 

No offence Strategos, but you are asking old questions...

To answer the question:
I think the devs wanted to see players using diverse nations.

[ October 21, 2003, 09:41: Message edited by: Nerfix ]

Re: Why not two of same nation in game?
 

Maybe hs is asking old questions, but he made some sense.
I think it would be good to see more players 'using' the same nation in the same game. I see nothing wrong in that. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: Why not two of same nation in game?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Is Mortifer the Mod Man forgetting mod tools?
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

Re: Why not two of same nation in game?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Is Mortifer the Mod Man forgetting mod tools?
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">What is the connection between the mod tools and this? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

Re: Why not two of same nation in game?
 

Who knowns... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/rolleyes.gif

Re: Why not two of same nation in game?
 

aside for the already mentioned historical development reason (in a previous thread), I think that forcing each nation to be unique in a given game forced players to use and be prepared to face every nations. This led to the finding of many new strategies IMO. I'm unsure it would have been the case if we had 4 Ermor in each game for example.

or 2 Atlantis as sea nations, as Rlyeh is often seen as weaker than Atlantis in the begining game.

Re: Why not two of same nation in game?
 

Yes, but allowing the same nations in one game would not cause any problems. I mean what is the problem if we want a game with 4 ermor nations?
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: Why not two of same nation in game?
 

perhaps that was not in the devs vision? or, they just didn't think about it....or....who knows really...

I have read somewhere that they didn't include that because they wanted the nations to be varied in-game....not 4 of the same thing....which, i might add would have happened in Dom1. I know, but Dom2 has national themes...but still, the basic design is still the same...

but, my guess is that the devs either didn't think about it, or made the design decision not to do it that way...

also, since it is primarily a MP game, maybe it would cause problems in the turns for the host or something....

Re: Why not two of same nation in game?
 

I wouldn't say that it is a primarily MP game...maybe it is supposed to be, but the majority of the fans are preferring SP, so the concept should change, heh. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif
Let's just say we need a balance between SP and MP, I think it would be a big mistake if the devs would prefer MP.

[ October 21, 2003, 15:49: Message edited by: Mortifer ]

Re: Why not two of same nation in game?
 

but Dominions, the first one, was made primarily for MP....argue against that all you want....that is what the devs purpose in it was...whether you agree or disagree is irrelevant....

perhaps, they have changed their stance since the first one...but, the fact remains, it was made primarily for MP....

and as far as everyone primarily wanting SP, you are not taking into consideration all the ppl that may not post on these Boards....many MANY of the ppl that do not post or visit these Boards ARE MP....

Again, perhaps they have changed their vision, but the first one was made mostly to be played MP....

edit: coreect me if I am wrong devs, but this is what i was lead to believe when i started looking into Dominions and buying it....

[ October 21, 2003, 16:26: Message edited by: cpbeller ]

Re: Why not two of same nation in game?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">1. I was talking about Dominions II.
2. many MANY of the ppl that do not post or visit these Boards ARE SP....in fact I think we have lot more SP gamers, but we had a discussion and a vote about it.

Don't get me wrong, MP is a very important part, but it is already worked very well in Doms I too.
Now we need a better SP: Mod Tools [the devs are working on it already], decent AI [SP fans can help to the devs that what should be tweaked in Doms II.], SP diplomacy [Hopefully we will have it sometime]

Oh and whether you agree or disagree is irrelevant....
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: Why not two of same nation in game?
 

i tell you what....go to #dominions on irc....ask them

and as far as Dom2, it is an update of Dom1....

but, go to #dominions on irc....

Re: Why not two of same nation in game?
 

That chan is good to make multi games, in fact that chan is for that mainly.
Propably SPers wont make IRC chans... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/rolleyes.gif

If Doms II. will sell good I think around ~25% of the players will play multi or even less...just like in any other popular strategy games.
Btw mainly MPers are visiting the game forums usually, so I am kinda surprised that even here we have lot more SP oriented fans.


PS. I will play multi games of course, but I am more interested in SP in Doms II.

[ October 21, 2003, 17:22: Message edited by: Mortifer ]

Re: Why not two of same nation in game?
 

ok, whatever

Re: Why not two of same nation in game?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">*Laugh*, how true.

We surely have more single fans, count me in and 2 of my friends too.
We will play LAN multi if that will be possible, but single is more important for us.


Ok back to the topic:
I like Stratego's idea too. This should be possible.

Re: Why not two of same nation in game?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">you dont know what is good for you? Stop to think, the devs does this admirably http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Re: Why not two of same nation in game?
 

When we first made Dominions we didn't want multiple Versions of a nation in a single game. It kind of ruins the feeling. In a way, themes is a step away from this path, but we are still inclined not to allow mutliple Ulms. It would not feel right to conquer another Ulm containing yet another Keep of Ulm.

When moddability is implemented 'Civil wars' are most likely possible. For example: A war between Ulm proper, an alternative Ulm with the capital Black Forest without Black Knights but Rangers of the Black Forest instead and another alternative Ulm with the capital Staahldorf, no Guardians but Iron Guards.

As long as the changes are small it would not be too difficult to add several nations of similar abilities.

Re: Why not two of same nation in game?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">you dont know what is good for you? Stop to think, the devs does this admirably http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Ye..ye http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Kristoffer, you had a good point there. With the mod tools, this won't be a problem anymore! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ October 21, 2003, 20:15: Message edited by: Mortifer ]

Re: Why not two of same nation in game?
 

Slightly on the tangent:
Is it going to be possible to randomly assign opponents in Doms II? For example, just to select that you want the game with 3 AI opponents, but not necessarily select which nations they are going to be?
Sorry if this has been discussed before, I haven't noticed it if it has.

Re: Why not two of same nation in game?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">now that is something I would like.....i think it would make the game more "mysterious", not knowing who you will meet on the fields of battle until you see "the white of their eyes"

Re: Why not two of same nation in game?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">now that is something I would like.....i think it would make the game more "mysterious", not knowing who you will meet on the fields of battle until you see "the white of their eyes" </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I slightly achieved this in Dom 1. You started all 14 nations but many fell out quickly. The problem with my script was that you were just as likely to fall out as anyone else. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Why not two of same nation in game?
 

It's funny, but even though I can't really think of a good reason why there shouldn't be more than one of the same nation in Dom II, I still kind of like it that you can only have one of each nation.

What are the main reasons why this would be a desirable idea for people?

*edit - BTW I love the idea of mystery opponents. This would be a really great fun option to add.

[ October 21, 2003, 23:39: Message edited by: st.patrik ]

Re: Why not two of same nation in game?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Good idea.

Re: Why not two of same nation in game?
 

I would have liked to have seen a nation being used more than once in a game....especially since there are now themes that even diversify the nations themselves....

but, i guess the devs also wanted more than 1 nation begin used also....i guess....

Re: Why not two of same nation in game?
 

I suppose if you were getting tired of the game and really wanted to you might try and mod a nation to be a rebel Version of another nation. Whatever you couldnt quite shift could become the storyline about why those are variants in the one group.

Re: Why not two of same nation in game?
 

could be done (with some work around) with a small utility which would modify the script file of a map.

I have made an utility for Doms I (DFC, you can grab it on Sunray's site), and intent to upgrade it for doms II, with some scripting features.