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-   -   Impartial MASTER LIST of issues/problems (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=16595)

st.patrik October 29th, 2003 05:03 PM

Impartial MASTER LIST of issues/problems
 
At Kristoffer's suggestion (see "What did I miss from Dom I" thread) here is a list of the things people have been saying that they would want the IW team to give their attention to:

• Strategic AI
• SP diplomacy
• Increased battle replay functionality (various speeds, etc.)
• Castle battle results
• More than one god for each nation
• Darker colours/textures in unit displays
• Newbie demo 'get started' stuff
• Bug fixes
• Moddability
• Alignment of stats in unit info screens

Are there any things which are really important that I missed?

Please Note: This is intended to be an impartial listing of the various things raised by different people. Please express why your suggestions are the most urgent/important elsewhere.

Once I'm sure we have a full list I'll make a poll for which 3 things (or something like that) you think are the most important to work on.

MStavros October 29th, 2003 05:06 PM

Re: Impartial MASTER LIST of issues/problems
 
Nice list.
patrik, Mortifer's Poll is sorta about that.

What should IW improve in Dominions II.?

GFX 4% (2)
Music & SFX 2% (1)
AI 67% (32)
Game balance 10% (5)
UI (User Interface) 35% (17)


32 had voted for the AI.

[ October 29, 2003, 15:07: Message edited by: MStavros ]

st.patrik October 29th, 2003 05:12 PM

Re: Impartial MASTER LIST of issues/problems
 
Quote:

Originally posted by MStavros:
Nice list.
patrik, Mortifer's Poll is sorta about that.

What should IW improve in Dominions II.?

GFX 4% (2)
Music & SFX 2% (1)
AI 67% (32)
Game balance 10% (5)
UI (User Interface) 35% (17)


32 had voted for the AI.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Thanks http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

And you're right, Mortifer's Poll was something like this. It just didn't have all the things people have since then mentioned. Also some of the things on his list haven't been raised as major concerns by anyone (at least as far as I know) - I'm thinking here of GFX and SFX particularly. So I guess I figured an update was ok - no offense intended at all to you, Mortifer, if you're reading this.

Kristoffer O October 29th, 2003 05:17 PM

Re: Impartial MASTER LIST of issues/problems
 
Hmm, MStavros... Did you read the entire post made by st.patrik.

This thread is supposed to be impartial and rid of opinions regarding what is most important.

I wanted a list of all things that you consider issues, not how important you thought they are. No offence.


All right, other things mentioned:

* Less focus on supercombatants
* More regrowth / less population death
* Find item on commanders
* ? accessible on main menu
* End/quit/save/host button remake (maybe already mentioned)

[ October 29, 2003, 15:18: Message edited by: Kristoffer O ]

Wendigo October 29th, 2003 05:23 PM

Re: Impartial MASTER LIST of issues/problems
 
It's a known rule regarding statistics that whoever writes the questions is determining strongly the results of the poll.

In the one previously mentioned the outcome was obvious:

Graphics, music & UI had seriously improved from Dom I, and it is too early to judge balance (and this was pretty correct in Dom I, while some nations & designs were stronger all nations were playable)...this only left AI.

No offense meant to the guys that enjoy launching polls, but their use to support a personal PoV is debatable at the very least. I much rather prefer an argumented post.

A simple example:
Do you prefer to pay a) 80% taxes to the Government or b) 60% taxes?. Voters will rationally opt for b), but you cannot conclude from that that voters _want_ to pay 60% taxes.

[ October 29, 2003, 15:24: Message edited by: Wendigo ]

st.patrik October 29th, 2003 05:26 PM

Re: Impartial MASTER LIST of issues/problems
 
Thanks for those other issues Kristoffer [I re-wrote a couple of them]. Here's the updated list:

• Strategic AI
• SP diplomacy
• Increased battle replay functionality (various speeds, etc.)
• Castle battle results
• More than one god for each nation
• Darker colours/textures in unit displays
• Bug fixes
• Moddability
• Alignment of stats in unit info screens
• Less focus on supercombatants
• More regrowth possibilities / less emphasis on population death
• Ability to search for items on commanders
• '?' accessible on main menu
• Newbie demo 'get started' guide (& perhaps quick start game?)
• End/quit/save/host button remake

Any others that should be on this list?

st.patrik October 29th, 2003 05:29 PM

Re: Impartial MASTER LIST of issues/problems
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Wendigo:
It's a known rule regarding statistics that whoever writes the questions is determining strongly the results of the poll.

In the one previously mentioned the outcome was obvious:

Graphics, music & UI had seriously improved from Dom I, and it is too early to judge balance (and this was pretty correct in Dom I, while some nations & designs were stronger all nations were playable)...this only left AI.

No offense meant to the guys that enjoy launching polls, but their use to support a personal PoV is debatable at the very least. I much rather prefer an argumented post.

A simple example:
Do you prefer to pay a) 80% taxes to the Government or b) 60% taxes?. Voters will rationally opt for b), but you cannot conclude from that that voters _want_ to pay 60% taxes.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">On that note if anyone put forward one of these and thinks it could be stated more clearly, please feel free to suggest a better way to articulate it.

MythicalMino October 29th, 2003 05:32 PM

Re: Impartial MASTER LIST of issues/problems
 
research point locks for magic school research in the lab

Mortifer October 29th, 2003 05:49 PM

Re: Impartial MASTER LIST of issues/problems
 
Quote:

Originally posted by st.patrik:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Originally posted by MStavros:
Nice list.
patrik, Mortifer's Poll is sorta about that.

What should IW improve in Dominions II.?

GFX 4% (2)
Music & SFX 2% (1)
AI 67% (32)
Game balance 10% (5)
UI (User Interface) 35% (17)


32 had voted for the AI.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Thanks http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

And you're right, Mortifer's Poll was something like this. It just didn't have all the things people have since then mentioned. Also some of the things on his list haven't been raised as major concerns by anyone (at least as far as I know) - I'm thinking here of GFX and SFX particularly. So I guess I figured an update was ok - no offense intended at all to you, Mortifer, if you're reading this.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Its all cool man, we do need polls. That is the best way for the Devs to know that what the players want. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif

st.patrik October 29th, 2003 05:56 PM

Re: Impartial MASTER LIST of issues/problems
 
Quote:

Originally posted by cpbeller:
research point locks for magic school research in the lab
<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I forgot that one. And I also added starting with a "nation" in the sense of more than one province, which is being talked about here. Here's the updated list:

• Strategic AI
• SP diplomacy
• Increased battle replay functionality (various speeds, etc.)
• Castle battle results
• More than one god for each nation
• Darker colours/textures in unit displays
• Bug fixes
• Moddability
• Alignment of stats in unit info screens
• Less focus on supercombatants
• More regrowth possibilities / less emphasis on population death
• Ability to search for items on commanders
• '?' accessible on main menu
• Newbie demo 'get started' guide (& perhaps quick start game?)
• End/quit/save/host button remake
• research point 'lock' for schools of magic
• Enhanced start (more than one province)

Any more? Post 'em here.

[ October 29, 2003, 16:01: Message edited by: st.patrik ]

st.patrik October 29th, 2003 06:07 PM

Re: Impartial MASTER LIST of issues/problems
 
Kristoffer, I'm thinking that it may be helpful to divide this list into a 'Major feature addition' list [read "lots of work"] and a 'Minor tweak' list [read "less work"]. What do you think? And if you think this would be helpful, maybe you could help say which are which?

Mortifer October 29th, 2003 06:13 PM

Re: Impartial MASTER LIST of issues/problems
 
Quote:

Originally posted by st.patrik:
Kristoffer, I'm thinking that it may be helpful to divide this list into a 'Major feature addition' list [read "lots of work"] and a 'Minor tweak' list [read "less work"]. What do you think? And if you think this would be helpful, maybe you could help say which are which?
<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I second this.

However I think that everyone have their own answers. [Propably we know what is the most important thing anyways.]

[ October 29, 2003, 16:15: Message edited by: Mortifer ]

Wendigo October 29th, 2003 06:23 PM

Re: Impartial MASTER LIST of issues/problems
 
Leave it as it is, even sorting the list in 2 Groups would reflect a personal bias.

Rather let the devs decide from the input in other threads whether something needs to be tweaked, (or not) & how much...just leave it at a list of issues raised by fans.

Something that some old timers miss from Dom I:

Renaming (or tags) for roleplay/MM reduction.

Kristoffer O October 29th, 2003 06:25 PM

Re: Impartial MASTER LIST of issues/problems
 
The list can be sorted later, but no harm if you do it now.

* map and scenario triggers
* was several gods included before ?
* jumpstart game
* premade gods


I'll leave now. Se you sunday http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Saber Cherry October 29th, 2003 08:02 PM

Re: Impartial MASTER LIST of issues/problems
 
Bless bonuses should be listed in the "Create God / Choose Magic" screen. This should be in the magic path's description.

It would be nice to see this info in-game, too - for example, when right-clicking for the description of "Bless". Ideally, the "Bless" text would be tailored to your God, but at a minimum, it should have a complete description of all bless effects, rather than just "For example". Another good place for the info would be on the right-click sacred symbol info on a unit description.

Also, the EXACT, NUMERIC effects of the scales should be in the "Create God / Dominion" screen. In other words, "Growth" description should include "+ .038% population per province per growth scale" or something like that, but more clear. The text description is nice, and should stay - but the fact that there is no hard data makes people feel lost, spinning dials with no known effect.

-Cherry

[ October 29, 2003, 18:06: Message edited by: Saber Cherry ]

HJ October 29th, 2003 08:22 PM

Re: Impartial MASTER LIST of issues/problems
 
Quote:

Originally posted by st.patrik:


Any more? Post 'em here.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Assigning only number of AIs without specifying who they are. Let's say, I choose to play a game with 5 AI opponents, but they get randomly assigned the nation and everything else.

Does the weapon-armour system qualify?

[ October 29, 2003, 18:26: Message edited by: HJ ]

st.patrik October 29th, 2003 09:04 PM

Re: Impartial MASTER LIST of issues/problems
 
Ok, lots more good stuff. Here's the list so far:

• Strategic AI
• SP diplomacy
• Increased battle replay functionality (various speeds, etc.)
• Castle battle results
• More than one god for each nation
• Darker colours/textures in unit displays
• Bug fixes
• Moddability
• Alignment of stats in unit info screens
• Less focus on supercombatants
• More regrowth possibilities / less emphasis on population death
• Ability to search for items on commanders
• '?' accessible on main menu
• Pre-made Gods for New players
• Newbie 'get started' guide
• Quick start game for Newbies
- I think this is what Kristoffer was referring to with 'jumpstart game'
or maybe he was referring to this:
• Enhanced start (starting with more than one province)
• End/quit/save/host button remake
• Research point 'lock' for schools of magic
• Random nation AI opponents
• Map and Scenario triggers
[not sure where this was mentioned]
• Ability to rename, or at least add epithets to commanders
• Bless effects more prominently displayed when creating a God's magic
• Actual effects of scales explained when creating a pretender's scales


Saber, I'm not sure if I understood all of what you were saying.

Let me know if I missed something important.

As far as dividing this into two lists, I was thinking primarily in reference to the upcoming poll. So, for example, you could vote for 5 minor tweaks (that wouldn't take that many man-hours to implement) and 1 or 2 major additions/changes (things that would take many man hours). I don't think that this biases it at all really.

Any more additions to the list? The guideline you should probably keep in mind (so that we don't get dozens of minute tweaks) is that if it would come in your top 5 things you'd want changed, then post here and I'll add it, otherwise save it for another day.

As soon as there's a significant break from new things being posted I'll make a poll.

[ October 29, 2003, 19:12: Message edited by: st.patrik ]

Pocus October 29th, 2003 09:11 PM

Re: Impartial MASTER LIST of issues/problems
 
strengthening the effect of dominions candles (eg : rising the cost of overland army destruction spells in a province with an enemy dominion)

st.patrik October 29th, 2003 09:14 PM

Re: Impartial MASTER LIST of issues/problems
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Pocus:
strengthening the effect of dominions candles (eg : rising the cost of overland army destruction spells in a province with an enemy dominion)
<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I'm not sure if I understand what you mean... Is there a thread talking about this? or can you explain a little more?

[ October 29, 2003, 19:14: Message edited by: st.patrik ]

Windreaper October 29th, 2003 10:35 PM

Re: Impartial MASTER LIST of issues/problems
 
I'm not sure if this has been mentioned, but I'd love to be able to tell AI _not_ to use certain spells. Something like having little checkboxes next to the list of available spells. For example, I don't want my machakan sorceresses to cast stuff like fire flies/raise skeletons when they got other spells available and within range.

Casting some spells is also rather dangerous for the caster (and everyone else around him/her). I'd love to tell them stop using them too. But on the other hand, casting AI represents some sort of "random" factor in the combat system even if they don't make sense to me. Oh well, mages have always been the weird bunch of people to me http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

st.patrik October 29th, 2003 10:49 PM

Re: Impartial MASTER LIST of issues/problems
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Windreaper:
I'm not sure if this has been mentioned, but I'd love to be able to tell AI _not_ to use certain spells. Something like having little checkboxes next to the list of available spells. For example, I don't want my machakan sorceresses to cast stuff like fire flies/raise skeletons when they got other spells available and within range.

Casting some spells is also rather dangerous for the caster (and everyone else around him/her). I'd love to tell them stop using them too. But on the other hand, casting AI represents some sort of "random" factor in the combat system even if they don't make sense to me. Oh well, mages have always been the weird bunch of people to me http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">You mean a kind of 'negative scripting' for mages: "I don't care what spell you cast, just don't cast these ones"? Is this what you mean?

Zerger October 29th, 2003 10:59 PM

Re: Impartial MASTER LIST of issues/problems
 
Holy! long list heh. As I see the list begins with the most important things. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

st.patrik October 29th, 2003 11:06 PM

Re: Impartial MASTER LIST of issues/problems
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Zerger:
Holy! long list heh. As I see the list begins with the most important things. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif
<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Actually it's intended to be impartial, and therefore the order is merely the order things were added in - no implication of importance should be taken from the order whatsoever.

Anyway, when I make the poll you will all get the chance to speak out about what you think is most important. Until then, lets avoid talking about which are more/less important.

st.patrik October 29th, 2003 11:20 PM

Re: Impartial MASTER LIST of issues/problems
 
Here's the updated list, broken up into 4 categories:
1. Tweaks/Easy things to add
2. Additions of relatively minor features
3. Additions of relatively major features
4. Balance considerations.

1. Tweaks/Easy things to add
• Darker colours/textures in unit displays
• Alignment of stats in unit info screens
• Pre-made Gods for New players
• Newbie 'get started' guide
• Quick start game for Newbies
• End/quit/save/host button remake
• Bless effects more prominently displayed when creating a God's magic
• Actual effects of scales explained when creating a pretender's scales

2. Additions of relatively minor features
• Castle battle results
• '?' accessible on main menu
• Research point 'lock' for schools of magic
• Random nation AI opponents
• Map and Scenario triggers [not sure where this was mentioned]
• Ability to rename, or at least add epithets to commanders
• Negative scripting for mages (i.e. telling them what you *don't* want them to cast)

3. Additions of relatively major features
• SP diplomacy
• Increased battle replay functionality (various speeds, etc.)
• More than one god for each nation
• Moddability
• Ability to search for items on commanders
• Enhanced start (starting with more than one province)

4. Balance considerations
• Improve Strategic AI
• Bug fixes
• Less focus on supercombatants
• More regrowth possibilities / less emphasis on population death

Additions? Comments?

licker October 29th, 2003 11:26 PM

Re: Impartial MASTER LIST of issues/problems
 
Strategic AI should probably go in #3.

I don't really understand the difference between #s 1 and 2 and why you broke out what you did into them, but since they are all 'minor' issues I don't think it matters that much.

Bugs should be their own catagory or not even in these lists, bugs should be fixed as a top priority in all cases (yes BUGS not FEATURES http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif )

Windreaper October 29th, 2003 11:41 PM

Re: Impartial MASTER LIST of issues/problems
 
Quote:

Originally posted by st.patrik:
You mean a kind of 'negative scripting' for mages: "I don't care what spell you cast, just don't cast these ones"? Is this what you mean?
<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Sort of. But it'd work both ways.
Let me make a poor example here. Checked spells are the ones that the mage is allowed to cast. Unchecked ones would be the ones that won't be casted. All spells would start checked.
.
.
.
[_]Flying Shard
[_]Fire Flies
[x]Magma Bolts
.
.
.
[select all][clear all] <-- important buttons

Saber Cherry October 29th, 2003 11:46 PM

Re: Impartial MASTER LIST of issues/problems
 
Oh, I mentioned this in another thread. For Category 1):

Line up numeric unit stats. So instead of like this:

Strength 10
Attack Skill 10
Defense Skill 10
Precision 11

It looks more like this:

Strength ......... 10
Attack Skill .... 10
Defense Skill . 10
Precision ....... 11

-Cherry

P.S. I hate cross-posting, but:

I don't like scrolling down a menu to find the exit button. Every exitable menu should have a big "X in a Square" in the upper-right corner, where you click to exit... just like in MS-ish standardized programs. Or at a minimum, never have to scroll to the bottom to exit (like in the spell lists).

[ October 29, 2003, 21:50: Message edited by: Saber Cherry ]

Gandalf Parker October 29th, 2003 11:46 PM

Re: Impartial MASTER LIST of issues/problems
 
Quote:

Originally posted by licker:
Strategic AI should probably go in #3.
I don't really understand the difference between #s 1 and 2 and why you broke out what you did into them, but since they are all 'minor' issues I don't think it matters that much.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I thought it was a good breakdown (without personal knowledge of the game code) of what seems easy fix and what seems like it would mean coding for abit.

PhilD October 30th, 2003 12:32 AM

Re: Impartial MASTER LIST of issues/problems
 
I'll add a few, because apparently some of you experts don't remember what it is to discover this game and its hundreds of unit types...

Unit names together with icons (in recruitment screen, and in army screen; maybe just where it says "12 units" it should say "10 Heavy Infantries, 2 Light Infantries")

More detailed lists of losses in battle reports, again with the list of unit names (at least for the units you lost)

Bring back the battle simulator, and make it more tweakable. OK, maybe only when there's a way to speed up battle replays, but still.

Short list of troops under a given commander when you right-click on him.

I'm pretty sure there are other UI issues, but I'm forgetting them. Someone mentioned they'd like the Exit button to always be available in scrollable lists; that, and right-clicking out of the list (when something is supposed to be selected) should close the list.

Sammual October 30th, 2003 12:54 AM

Re: Impartial MASTER LIST of issues/problems
 
What about beefing up the Bless effects by starting them off at level 3 and 6 not 4 and 8?

Sammual

st.patrik October 30th, 2003 02:45 AM

Re: Impartial MASTER LIST of issues/problems
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Windreaper:
Let me make a poor example here. Checked spells are the ones that the mage is allowed to cast. Unchecked ones would be the ones that won't be casted. All spells would start checked.
.
.
.
[_]Flying Shard
[_]Fire Flies
[x]Magma Bolts
.
.
.
[select all][clear all] <-- important buttons

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I think I get the picture. Maybe this should be summarized as "enabling/disabling spells" - though that's not incredibly informative. Can you think of a better way to put it?

st.patrik October 30th, 2003 02:46 AM

Re: Impartial MASTER LIST of issues/problems
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Saber Cherry:
Oh, I mentioned this in another thread. For Category 1):

Line up numeric unit stats. So instead of like this:

Strength 10
Attack Skill 10
Defense Skill 10
Precision 11

It looks more like this:

Strength ......... 10
Attack Skill .... 10
Defense Skill . 10
Precision ....... 11

-Cherry

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I have this on the list, as "alignment of stats in unit info screens." Your post is a better explanation though. Is there a way to better summarize what you're getting at?

Quote:

Originally posted by Saber Cherry:
I don't like scrolling down a menu to find the exit button. Every exitable menu should have a big "X in a Square" in the upper-right corner, where you click to exit... just like in MS-ish standardized programs. Or at a minimum, never have to scroll to the bottom to exit (like in the spell lists).
<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I'll add this one

st.patrik October 30th, 2003 02:46 AM

Re: Impartial MASTER LIST of issues/problems
 
Quote:

Originally posted by PhilD:
I'll add a few, because apparently some of you experts don't remember what it is to discover this game and its hundreds of unit types...

Unit names together with icons (in recruitment screen, and in army screen; maybe just where it says "12 units" it should say "10 Heavy Infantries, 2 Light Infantries")

More detailed lists of losses in battle reports, again with the list of unit names (at least for the units you lost)

Bring back the battle simulator, and make it more tweakable. OK, maybe only when there's a way to speed up battle replays, but still.

Short list of troops under a given commander when you right-click on him.

I'm pretty sure there are other UI issues, but I'm forgetting them. Someone mentioned they'd like the Exit button to always be available in scrollable lists; that, and right-clicking out of the list (when something is supposed to be selected) should close the list.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Adding:
• Unit names with icons/detailed breakdown of mixed squads
• Detailed lists of losses (most importantly commanders)
• Battle Sim
• Right-clicking commander gives you list of troops under his command

Good input. The list is growing...

st.patrik October 30th, 2003 02:46 AM

Re: Impartial MASTER LIST of issues/problems
 
1. Tweaks/Easy changes to implement
• Darker colours/textures in unit displays
• Alignment of stats in unit info screens
• Pre-made Gods for New players
• Newbie 'get started' guide
• Quick start game for Newbies
• End/quit/save/host button remake
• Bless effects more prominently displayed when creating a God's magic
• Actual effects of scales explained when creating a pretender's scales
• Line between commanders and regular units in recruitment screen & Titles to for each

2. Additions of relatively minor features
• Castle battle results
• '?' accessible on main menu
• Research point 'lock' for schools of magic
• Random nation AI opponents
• Map and Scenario triggers [not sure where this was mentioned]
• Ability to rename, or at least add epithets to commanders
• Enhanced start (starting with more than one province)
• Closing dialogues without having to scroll down or press 'esc'
• Unit names with icons/detailed breakdown of mixed squads
• Detailed lists of losses (most importantly commanders)
• Right-clicking commander gives you list of troops under his command
• Build queue for commanders
• Shift-click to add higher multiples of units [e.g. 5 at a time] in recruitment screen

3. Additions of relatively major features
• SP diplomacy
• Increased battle replay functionality (various speeds, etc.)
• More than one god for each nation
• Moddability
• Ability to search for items on commanders
• Battle Sim
• Enabling/disabling spells (see Windreaper's post in this thread for details)

4. Balance considerations
• Improve Strategic AI
• Bug fixes
• Less focus on supercombatants
• More regrowth possibilities / less emphasis on population death
• Greater 'bless' effects (perhaps starting at an earlier level)

Any more additions? Anything in the list that needs to be explained/re-articulated?

Licker: for now the AI stays in #4, primarily because it doesn't fit in any of the other categories - it is neither a trivial change (aka tweak), nor an addition, either small or large - isn't it is continued development of something already in the game. The difference between #1 and #2 is that things in #1 are very minor changes of things already existing, by and large; whereas things in #2 are new features, albeit new feature that aren't very large/wouldn't require too much coding to implement (on my best guess)

*edit: added some stuff, moved some stuff.

[ October 30, 2003, 01:31: Message edited by: st.patrik ]

Saber Cherry October 30th, 2003 03:00 AM

Re: Impartial MASTER LIST of issues/problems
 
In the recruitment screen: an obvious border (e.g., a line) between regular units and commanders. This should be labeled "Commanders" below the line, and something like "Normal Units" (that sounds dumb, but what are they called?) above the line.

Ideally, a commander queue in the production screen would be nice, even though you'd still be limited to 1 commander/province/turn.

-Cherry

HJ October 30th, 2003 03:11 AM

Re: Impartial MASTER LIST of issues/problems
 
Ability to shift click (or something similar) to add or subtract more than one unit to the production queue, say 5 units of the chosen type per shift-click.

[ October 30, 2003, 01:14: Message edited by: HJ ]

st.patrik October 30th, 2003 03:24 AM

Re: Impartial MASTER LIST of issues/problems
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Saber Cherry:
In the recruitment screen: an obvious border (e.g., a line) between regular units and commanders. This should be labeled "Commanders" below the line, and something like "Normal Units" (that sounds dumb, but what are they called?) above the line.

Ideally, a commander queue in the production screen would be nice, even though you'd still be limited to 1 commander/province/turn.

-Cherry

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Edited in - see below.

st.patrik October 30th, 2003 03:29 AM

Re: Impartial MASTER LIST of issues/problems
 
Quote:

Originally posted by HJ:
Ability to shift click (or something similar) to add or subtract more than one unit to the production queue, say 5 units of the chosen type per shift-click.
<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">edited into the post below.

Keep them coming http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

st.patrik October 30th, 2003 03:44 AM

Re: Impartial MASTER LIST of issues/problems
 
Re-posted just to keep it at the top http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

1. Tweaks/Easy changes to implement
• Darker colours/textures in unit displays
• Alignment of stats in unit info screens
• Pre-made Gods for New players
• Newbie 'get started' guide
• Quick start game for Newbies
• End/quit/save/host button remake
• Bless effects more prominently displayed when creating a God's magic
• Actual effects of scales explained when creating a pretender's scales
• Line between commanders and regular units in recruitment screen & titles for each

2. Additions of relatively minor features
• Castle battle results
• '?' accessible on main menu
• Research point 'lock' for schools of magic
• Random nation AI opponents
• Map and Scenario triggers [not sure where this was mentioned]
• Ability to rename, or at least add epithets to commanders
• Enhanced start (starting with more than one province)
• Closing dialogues without having to scroll down or press 'esc'
• Unit names with icons/detailed breakdown of mixed squads
• Detailed lists of losses (most importantly commanders)
• Right-clicking commander gives you list of troops under his command
• Build queue for commanders
• Shift-click to add higher multiples of units [e.g. 5 at a time] in recruitment screen

3. Additions of relatively major features
• SP diplomacy
• Increased battle replay functionality (various speeds, etc.)
• More than one god for each nation
• Moddability
• Ability to search for items on commanders
• Battle Sim
• Enabling/disabling spells (see Windreaper's post in this thread for details)

4. Balance considerations
• Improve Strategic AI
• Bug fixes
• Less focus on supercombatants
• More regrowth possibilities / less emphasis on population death
• Greater 'bless' effects (perhaps starting at an earlier level)

Comments/Additions?

[ October 30, 2003, 01:46: Message edited by: st.patrik ]

HJ October 30th, 2003 08:22 AM

Re: Impartial MASTER LIST of issues/problems
 
This is something that hasn't been mentioned before, but it crossed my mind while playing, so if you feel it's a worthy addition, add it to the list. Otherwise, we can discuss it in some other thread.
I noticed that some spells and abilities show the exact value of the effect: for example fire shield clearly stated that it inflicts 7ap damage, or fear effect shows the exact modifier. Would it be possible to add the same amount of detail to other effects from spells and skills? For example, instead of saying that chill makes units more tired, to have an exact number available during the battle when you right-click the ability, since the formula has to be applied anyway and has to take into account the climate as well; it just remains invisible, but it's running in the background. Or instead of saying that survival decreases chance of starvation to actually say by what amount. So, I guess this can be summed up as more detailed effect descriptions.

Pocus October 30th, 2003 09:01 AM

Re: Impartial MASTER LIST of issues/problems
 
Quote:

Originally posted by st.patrik:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Originally posted by Pocus:
strengthening the effect of dominions candles (eg : rising the cost of overland army destruction spells in a province with an enemy dominion)

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I'm not sure if I understand what you mean... Is there a thread talking about this? or can you explain a little more? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">there was a quite raging thread about how the army destruction spells (overland, not in tac battle) were felt by the players. Most people speaking in the thread were vets of doms I, and their opinion varied from 'I find then a bit too potent' to 'they must be seriously toned down'.

So one of the solution would be to reduce their effectivness if you cast them in an enemy dominions, or increase their cost (you have to cast a major ritual into another god land, so you play more magical resources).

Aristoteles October 30th, 2003 03:00 PM

Re: Impartial MASTER LIST of issues/problems
 
patrik, you should fire up that new poll. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

st.patrik October 30th, 2003 03:14 PM

Re: Impartial MASTER LIST of issues/problems
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Pocus:
there was a quite raging thread about how the army destruction spells (overland, not in tac battle) were felt by the players. Most people speaking in the thread were vets of doms I, and their opinion varied from 'I find then a bit too potent' to 'they must be seriously toned down'.

So one of the solution would be to reduce their effectivness if you cast them in an enemy dominions, or increase their cost (you have to cast a major ritual into another god land, so you play more magical resources).

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Ok. So this would be something like "reducing the effectiveness of artillery-like spells in hostile dominion"? How is that?

I'll add this one, and HJ's one

Aristoteles: Maybe soon; it seems that people are still adding things, and I want to make sure everyone's had a chance to add their suggestions. Having said that, it's been a day, so maybe later today I'll fire it up.

Jasper October 30th, 2003 03:18 PM

Re: Impartial MASTER LIST of issues/problems
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Pocus:
there was a quite raging thread about how the army destruction spells (overland, not in tac battle) were felt by the players. Most people speaking in the thread were vets of doms I, and their opinion varied from 'I find then a bit too potent' to 'they must be seriously toned down'.
<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I didn't get quite that impression out of the thread, more that people just didn't like them.

I myself am not so sure they're unbalanced per se (provided you're prepared for them), but I don't like the way they dominate the game, forcing one towards a guerilla strategy, and away from large battles.

Jasper October 30th, 2003 03:23 PM

Re: Impartial MASTER LIST of issues/problems
 
Quote:

Originally posted by st.patrik:
Ok. So this would be something like "reducing the effectiveness of artillery-like spells in hostile dominion"? How is that?
<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I'm not sure that would really stop the nastiest effects of it, which basically limit the offensive use of anything not resistant -- strongly favoring Super Combatants.

What about expensive wards, that stay with the caster when he moves? Or perhaps items with a simimlar effect? My real problem with these spells is the complete lack of a counter.

PDF October 30th, 2003 03:34 PM

Re: Impartial MASTER LIST of issues/problems
 
While we're at asking changes, one thing that bothers me in Dom is that you have to pay "cash" all the builds in a queue, even if the units are only build X turns later.
In the end this means you should build only one turn worth of units and change the queue each turn, unless you like spending money earlier.

A welcome change would be that costs be calculated on a per-turn basis, so on one turn you only pay what you get (and this is how nearly all others strat games work BTW http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif )
.
This is maybe not that simple, cause in this case the program will have to keep track of funds to find if you can afford a build you've queued earlier, then "kills" queued builds if you can't, but it'll be cool nonetheless http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

st.patrik October 30th, 2003 03:54 PM

Re: Impartial MASTER LIST of issues/problems
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Jasper:
My real problem with these spells is the complete lack of a counter.
<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I think that is fairly summarized by "reduce effectiveness of artillery-like spells" - whether it be by introducing counters or by making them weaker, you are still making them less potent.

st.patrik October 30th, 2003 03:55 PM

Re: Impartial MASTER LIST of issues/problems
 
Updated list. People who posted suggestions, check to make sure I got it, and got it right.

1. Tweaks/Easy changes to implement
• Darker colours/textures in unit displays
• Alignment of stats in unit info screens
• Pre-made Gods for New players
• Newbie 'get started' guide
• Quick start game for Newbies
• End/quit/save/host button remake
• Bless effects more prominently displayed when creating a God's magic
• Actual effects of scales explained when creating a pretender's scales
• Line between commanders and regular units in recruitment screen & titles for each
• More details on exactly what different effects mean (e.g. exact benefits of mountain/forest/swamp survival, etc.)

2. Additions of relatively minor features
• Castle battle results
• '?' accessible on main menu
• Research point 'lock' for schools of magic
• Random nation AI opponents
• Map and Scenario triggers [not sure where this was mentioned]
• Ability to rename, or at least add epithets to commanders
• Enhanced start (starting with more than one province)
• Closing dialogues without having to scroll down or press 'esc'
• Unit names with icons/detailed breakdown of mixed squads
• Detailed lists of losses (most importantly commanders)
• Right-clicking commander gives you list of troops under his command
• Build queue for commanders
• Shift-click to add higher multiples of units [e.g. 5 at a time] in recruitment screen
• Build queue doesn't charge you for units which won't be built that turn

3. Additions of relatively major features
• SP diplomacy
• Increased battle replay functionality (various speeds, etc.)
• More than one god for each nation
• Moddability
• Ability to search for items on commanders
• Battle Sim
• Enabling/disabling spells (see Windreaper's post in this thread for details)

4. Balance considerations
• Improve Strategic AI
• Bug fixes
• Less focus on supercombatants
• More regrowth possibilities / less emphasis on population death
• Greater 'bless' effects (starting at an earlier level/increasing exponentially rather than by addition/magic cheaper in general, etc.)
• reduce effectiveness of artillery-like spells (esp. in hostile dominion)

Any more? As soon as it slows down I'll make a poll.

[ October 30, 2003, 14:03: Message edited by: st.patrik ]

Pocus October 30th, 2003 04:16 PM

Re: Impartial MASTER LIST of issues/problems
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Jasper:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Originally posted by Pocus:
there was a quite raging thread about how the army destruction spells (overland, not in tac battle) were felt by the players. Most people speaking in the thread were vets of doms I, and their opinion varied from 'I find then a bit too potent' to 'they must be seriously toned down'.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I didn't get quite that impression out of the thread, more that people just didn't like them.

I myself am not so sure they're unbalanced per se (provided you're prepared for them), but I don't like the way they dominate the game, forcing one towards a guerilla strategy, and away from large battles.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">basically the opinion was that people wanted something to be changed, either reducing their effectivness, or having real counter, and not poor work arounds, or something like that. I gave my solution, but others are ok too.

Saber Cherry October 30th, 2003 08:02 PM

Re: Impartial MASTER LIST of issues/problems
 
From the list,

"Closing dialogues without having to scroll down or press 'esc'"

...might be a little more clear if rephrased to:

"Standardized mouse interface for closing windows, without scrolling: an "X" in the upper corner."

Also, I'd like to see:

"Standardized keyboard exit command: 'Esc' should exit battles."

-Cherry

[ October 30, 2003, 18:08: Message edited by: Saber Cherry ]


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