another questions thread [gameplay restricted please]
 

post here your game rules questions, and exclude bugs, features you dont like or want to see, etc.

1- is it still in the game that units with defend cost half their upkeep?

2- what is the exact mechanism working when units have a swamp bonus, are in a swamp, and are lacking supply?

3- is the summon animal (the one giving 13 animals amongst bears, wolves and hawks) spell affected by luck scale?

Re: another questions thread [gameplay restricted please]
 

1 - units with sacred you mean? Or wait...defending units only took half upkeep? so sacred defenders took 1/4? never knew that

I'd also like details on how terrain affects random distribution of income/resources/special sites

[ October 30, 2003, 06:24: Message edited by: LordArioch ]

Re: another questions thread [gameplay restricted please]
 

Heh, I just posted the question 2 in another thread at the same time when you posted this. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

So, another thing I also posted there: what is the difference between stealth +5 and stealth +15? Yes, +15 means the unit is less likely to be discovered, but how exactly? What stat or effect is checked for this?

Re: another questions thread [gameplay restricted please]
 

Does the Flaming Weapons give the 8 AP damage to all weapons the unit has?

Re: another questions thread [gameplay restricted please]
 

Maybe this was in dom1, but what exactly does webbing do, when is it removed, etc...

Re: another questions thread [gameplay restricted please]
 

lets attribute unique ID to each questions, for easy answer from the devs :

so :

1- is it still in the game that units with defend cost half their upkeep?

2- what is the exact mechanism working when units have a swamp bonus, are in a swamp, and are lacking supply?

3- is the summon animal (the one giving 13 animals amongst bears, wolves and hawks) spell affected by luck scale?

4- what is the difference between stealth +5 and stealth +15? Yes, +15 means the unit is less likely to be discovered, but how exactly? What stat or effect is checked for this?

5 - Does the Flaming Weapons give the 8 AP damage to all weapons the unit has?

6 - Maybe this was in dom1, but what exactly does webbing do, when is it removed, etc...

Re: another questions thread [gameplay restricted please]
 

lets attribute unique ID to each questions, for easy answer from the devs :

so :

1- is it still in the game that units with defend cost half their upkeep?

2- what is the exact mechanism working when units have a swamp bonus, are in a swamp, and are lacking supply?

3- is the summon animal (the one giving 13 animals amongst bears, wolves and hawks) spell affected by luck scale?

4- what is the difference between stealth +5 and stealth +15? Yes, +15 means the unit is less likely to be discovered, but how exactly? What stat or effect is checked for this?

5 - Does the Flaming Weapons give the 8 AP damage to all weapons the unit has?

6 - Maybe this was in dom1, but what exactly does webbing do, when is it removed, etc...

7 - There are three movement speeds: basic, map movement and army map movement. What is the third one?

Re: another questions thread [gameplay restricted please]
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Guessing here:
The actual map speed of the army (i.e. one commander army) which is equal to the map speed of the slowest unit in it?

Re: another questions thread [gameplay restricted please]
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Guessing here:
The actual map speed of the army (i.e. one commander army) which is equal to the map speed of the slowest unit in it? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">*nods* Yes, unless I have really misunderstood things, army movement should be the map movement speed of the commander plus his group of squadrons.

Re: another questions thread [gameplay restricted please]
 

8 - What about the values for standards? I'm guessing that the value is added to the morale when doing morale checks. But also, what is the range of this in terms of the grid?

9 - What is the difference between strong poison and death poison? How are posions calculated in the first place?

[ October 31, 2003, 20:33: Message edited by: HJ ]

Re: another questions thread [gameplay restricted please]
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">8) The value is the area of the effect. Each turn all units in the area regains lost morale.

9) Weak poison: damage value 5, Strong: 15, Death 35. Poison damage is calculated as other damage, 2d6+strength vs 2d6(+no armor allowed). One tenth of this rounded up is dealt to the target each turn.

Re: another questions thread [gameplay restricted please]
 

9) Could you clarify how the poison damage is applied. If my C'tis slinger rolls an 11(+5) dmg and his opponent rolls a 7 is the damage:

a) .9 for the next ten turns.
b) 9 first round + .9 for the next ten turns.

Also is there a resistance check vs the damage, and is poison damage cumulative i.e. you get hit by 2 slingers?

Re: another questions thread [gameplay restricted please]
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">8) The value is the area of the effect. Each turn all units in the area regains lost morale.

9) Weak poison: damage value 5, Strong: 15, Death 35. Poison damage is calculated as other damage, 2d6+strength vs 2d6(+no armor allowed). One tenth of this rounded up is dealt to the target each turn. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">would you care to develop on how morale tests are made? From your answer on standard, you are telling us that units can recover morale?? Up to their maximum morale?

Re: another questions thread [gameplay restricted please]
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Poison slings automatically poisons anyone in the square, so I'll use an assassin instead.

Your assassin strikes and hits a commander of ulm. The poison dagger deals 3+10(strength)+2d6 damage vs 18(armor)+2d6. Your assassin is lucky and deals five points of dmg. The commander is poisoned.

The poison has a value of 2d6+5(poison strength)-2d6(+no armor). Lets say 9 points. Each turn the poison will cause the commander 1 point of dmg until it has caused 9 points of dmg.

If the poison value was 11 the commander would take 2 points of dmg the first turn and then take 1 each turn until all 11 points were dealt. As the commander was already damaged from the initial strike he will die after 5 turns if the commander had 12 HPs.

Re: another questions thread [gameplay restricted please]
 

is poison damage cumulative?


if you feel courageous, feel free to elaborate on this morale recovery rule. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: another questions thread [gameplay restricted please]
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Poison is cumulative.

Ugh! I'll try, but this is treacherous grounds. The lands of morale checks is ancient, dark and filled with sink holes. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif I do not believe there are any scouts left that know what lies hidden in that foreboding marsh.

When a unit is hit, repelled or if a squad-mate dies he is forced to make a morale check. This probably works in the same way as an attack/defence roll. Depending on the failure of the defending morale the unit is subjected to a morale loss of 1-3. This does not (IIRC) affect the actual morale of the unit. The sum of the morale losses are added. Each turn the total morale loss of the squad are compared with the number of units in the squad and the average morale (IIRC) of the squad. In ways I can't remember there are dice added and a resulting rout may occur.

Each turn a standard reduces the morale loss of all units it affects by one.

Sermon of Courage etc also reduces the morale loss of units affected. Not sure if this is limited to one point of morale loss. It might be more.

The sum of these checks are:
A cowardly unit in an otherwise brave squad will get morale losses as his friends die even though his brave friends don't. If he's chicken enough he will most likely cause the squad more harm by being a coward than the squad will gain from having him in the squad.

Larger armies rout less easily. They are also less affected by random chance. Larger armies needs more total morale losses to risk a rout. Thus a squad composed of five wardens might be unlucky if one of them is repelled, while a large squad of LI is unlikely to rout until several of their numbers are dead.

Mindless units might be useful to avoid routs as the rout check is based on average morale (IIRC), but in the case of soulless the sheer number of slain units in the squad might cause the living to rout regardless of the mindless units. The soulless will then dissolve.

Hope this clarifies something. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif I'm not clear myself (hello Hubbard http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif ) and I'm not likely to become any clearer. I have occasionally grasped the mechanics, but they seem to be elusive theories http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/confused.gif

Re: another questions thread [gameplay restricted please]
 

Thank you very much for taking the time to write the clarifications! I really appreciate it, and appreciate the game even more when I realise how cool and intricate its mechanisms are.

One question:
<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Does this mean that they will dissolve even though there are still undead leaders present? I thought that the mindless units work in the same way as berserkers do: if the rest of the squad routs, they will still hang on a continue to fight on their own. They do not? How about mixing berserkers with regulars then, will their 99 morale help with average morale as well, or is their "normal" morale taken into account in calculations?

[ November 03, 2003, 20:24: Message edited by: HJ ]

Re: another questions thread [gameplay restricted please]
 

Thank you very much Kristoffer. Many will appreciate the infos which were ungatherable by testbeds!

You comments on old code made me laugh. At work we have exactly the same feeling when we enter 5 years old code portions made by another team http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

some triggered questions :

i would have though that mindless units were not counted as in the morale average check, from my experience it is better to add ghouls and not mindless in a living squad. I must be wrong.

is fanatism better compared to sermon, or the reverse, when dealing with minimal morale loss? Sometime I see that level 4 priests will prefer sermon other fanatism, so I say to myself that the sermon effect is slightly more potent.

any idea on the radius of standard?

is the formula for rout like this :
morale losses > number of units + average morale, then rout (with dices or not)

can morale loss for a given unit superior to his base morale (milicia have 8 morale, can they have more than 8 penalty), that would create a sinkhole effect indeed, as they would fail often, and then get a big morale loss very detrimental to everybody.

Re: another questions thread [gameplay restricted please]
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Check out the first Kristoffer's post in this thread. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: another questions thread [gameplay restricted please]
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Check out the first Kristoffer's post in this thread. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">"the value is his area of effect".

I dont understand the answer. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

Re: another questions thread [gameplay restricted please]
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Check out the first Kristoffer's post in this thread. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">"the value is his area of effect".

I dont understand the answer. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I gather it means the value for Standard (say, +6) is the area of the effect for the bonus. (In this case, it would affect all units up to six sectors away) I don't recall if the value affects the strength of the effect as well though.

Re: another questions thread [gameplay restricted please]
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">That's my understanding as well. The only thing I don't know is whether the value is a "radius" in squares, or the squares themselves. Let me try to explain. Each square has 8 squares surrounding it:
000
0X0
000
where X is the square in question and 0 are the squares around it. But the "radius" is 1, i.e. only one square in each direction. "Radius" of 2 would look something like this:
00000
00000
00X00
00000
00000
So in other words, is the area of effect calculated as all other areas of effect, say for the spells, or is it the number of concentrical circles around the unit? If it's just the squares, then how is it decided which squares are under the influence of the banner if the value is, e.g. 6? Does it change from turn to turn? If so, the standard could be somewhat unreliable, since it could end up affecting the empty squares and not affecting the ones with the units.

[ November 04, 2003, 14:24: Message edited by: HJ ]

Re: another questions thread [gameplay restricted please]
 

The area is area like in spells. 15 area affects 15 squares and potentionally 45 size 2 units. It spreads somewhat erratically from the center so the area might 'lean' in one direction, once again much like with the spells. The area can as HJ suggested 'hit' empty squares.

[ November 04, 2003, 14:38: Message edited by: johan osterman ]

Re: another questions thread [gameplay restricted please]
 

I suppose it would have helped my understanding if I had checked that a value is now associated with the standard http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

I always believed that standard gave a +1 morale bonus, whereas it seems it acts like a mini continuous 'sermon of courage' spell, is that what you understand?

Re: another questions thread [gameplay restricted please]
 

Yes.

Edit: Although I think the morale recovery from the sermon of courage is greater than one.

[ November 04, 2003, 15:17: Message edited by: johan osterman ]

Re: another questions thread [gameplay restricted please]
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Don't be too certain there are many changes that neither me nor JK are aware of. It is not impossible that mindless do not count in the average.

Quote:

is fanatism better compared to sermon, or the reverse, when dealing with minimal morale loss? Sometime I see that level 4 priests will prefer sermon other fanatism, so I say to myself that the sermon effect is slightly more potent.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I'm not sure. It might be.

Quote:

is the formula for rout like this : morale losses > number of units + average morale, then rout (with dices or not)

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">No idea http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif Probably something like that.

Quote:

can morale loss for a given unit superior to his base morale (milicia have 8 morale, can they have more than 8 penalty), that would create a sinkhole effect indeed, as they would fail often, and then get a big morale loss very detrimental to everybody.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">They can have more morale loss than eight. Yes, they are horrible. Imagine starving militia together with your Wardens http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Re: another questions thread [gameplay restricted please]
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Don't be too certain there are many changes that neither me nor JK are aware of. It is not impossible that mindless do not count in the average.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">and as you are the only two coders I know of, I must conclude the code modify itself http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif