Theme Wars (Race/Theme Balance)
 

As has been stated before; certain themes/races need balance. As a player in a multiplayer enviroment with now the full game; I hope we can better improve or diversify this already excellent game by pointing out flaws, both subtle and blatent. This is only for Race/Theme balance and not GUI, Crafting, Technical, Spell balancing; though those may in some way have an impact on the balance of Race/Themes.

I'll start it off with the most obvious. Maybe Dev's and Players can have their input heard or ways in which to address these concerns.

Abysian (Default)
Abysian (Blood of Humans Theme)

Total difference of the race base to the Theme:

BoH = Scale Heat 2 Maximum.
Aby = Scale Heat 3 Maximum.

BoH loses -40 DPoints. This may be argued that having a lower scale heat is better when trying to expand your domain; but all the BoH infantry still gain Strength by being in Heat so they effectively lose -1 STR.

BoH = Smouldercone +4 Fire Gems
Aby = Smouldercone +5 Fire Gems

They also lose 1 Fire Gem a turn and don't gain anything in the process. Overall weaker.

BoH = Theme Only Commander/Units.

Abysian Commander - Vanilla low ranking commander. Less powerful than the Warlord except with a Shield.

Newt - 90 Gold, 2 Resources, 1 Fire, 2 Priest Research 3, Sacred

Guardian of the Pyre - Gold 55, Resources 30, Sacred, Heat, 100 Fire Resistant, Heat, Survival

Abys = Theme only Commander/Units.

Beast Trainer - Commander for Magical Beings

Warlord - Vanilla Commander of troops, ambi with axes.

Demonbred - 260 Gold, 6 Resources, Flying, Sacred, 2 Fire, 2 Blood, Heat, Priest 3, 6 Research.

Units:

Salamander - Armor piercing unit. One of the few Abysian units that has 2 Overland movement.

Lava Warrior - 55 Gold, 30 Resources. Compared to the Guardian of the Pyre it has -3 Precision, -3 Protection, +1 Magic Resistance, +6 Encumberance, +3 Berserk, and Ambi Morningstars.

Conclusions:

BoH doesn't change the concept of Abysia at all. It only provides them with losing some of their versitility (in the Demonbred and Salamander), DPoints, Inability to Choose Desert Sun in order to retain your high heat Dominion, less innate gem income and a low end researcher that is recruitable everywhere in the Newt.

There was no change to resource costs of the Abysian infantry or added blood involvement. Thus overall weakening the entire race.

How do fix it? Suggestions?

Re: Theme Wars (Race/Theme Balance)
 

Well, I've suggested that humanbred costs be reduced more (maybe to 10), the theme cost negative points (like -50), and the lost fire gem be replaced by a couple blood slaves or some other gem. They would also be helped by a new Humanbred national mage, recruitable anywhere, with more paths - possibly blood and 2 random. And *gasp* maybe even with a precision of 10=)

Some sacred humanbred troops would be very interesting, too. "Blood Warriors", annointed with the blood of their comrades - inexpensive, sacred shield-and-axe fireproof medium infantry would be an interesting addition to Dominions.

-Cherry

P.S. I hope these changes get patched in, but otherwise, look for them in "Cherrymod" =)

Re: Theme Wars (Race/Theme Balance)
 

I'd suggest lower costs to the gold/resouces of the Humanbred (it's the whole point of the theme). Plus give the Humanbred an archer or crossbow troop. Now the the troops aren't quite as hot, let them hold a usefull weapon. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: Theme Wars (Race/Theme Balance)
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Actually it's not, but it is the effect of the point. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: Theme Wars (Race/Theme Balance)
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Actually it's not, but it is the effect of the point. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">If Humanbred are not the whole point of the theme, then what is? The dilution of the Pure Abysian blood and less reliance on blood/fire magic as well as demons? If so; that would mean that there are more and plentiful humans to go around and abuse (for the warlocks and blood rites).

Re: Theme Wars (Race/Theme Balance)
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Humanbreds and the dilution of the blood is the point of the theme (not the fact that humanbreds are cheaper). I was just bugging Alex.
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: Theme Wars (Race/Theme Balance)
 

How much work is a new theme? Can we suggest some? I rather owe someone to make an effort to try and slip in a "hobbit" nation. I was thinking of Ulm. Something along the line of "Bree" in the books (humans and halflings living together). I could do it with a map but a theme would be better.

Re: Theme Wars (Race/Theme Balance)
 

When Dominions becomes moddable you should be able to add a proper tolkien nation with hobbits and whatnot.

Re: Theme Wars (Race/Theme Balance)
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">THe correct plural of "Hobbit" is "Hobbitses"... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Re: Theme Wars (Race/Theme Balance)
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Fantastic news! Suberb, wonderful, yeehaa!

This makes so much possible for a long term roleplayer/wargamer like me. It will allow me to bring in pre-existing campaigns etc into a Dominion format and carry them on in the new form.

I think you could do a pretty good War of the Rings using the Dominions engine - with the Ring, Mount Doom, Gandalf, the Balrog and all. Though you would have to remove most of the magic from Dominions or it would make a nonsense of game balence.

What where my plans for the summer holidays again?

Cheers

Keir

[ November 18, 2003, 22:53: Message edited by: Keir Maxwell ]

Re: Theme Wars (Race/Theme Balance)
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Oh? I thought it was "Hobbitkabob".

PvK

Re: Theme Wars (Race/Theme Balance)
 

Speaking of hobbitses... I think a wonderful and brilliant idea would be adding an "Elf" and "Orc" race! I can't believe nobody has thought of it; the devs must be really uncreative. Well, on to more serious matters http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Does anyone else agree that the absolute best indy archers in the game are Hoburg Crossbows? Cheap, tiny, cute, high precision... wow! I love those things! The fact that they fit 5 to a square allows easier battlfield positioning and a tighter arrow spread, too.

However... I think it is HIGHLY odd that hoburgers (which, in itself, sounds odd) have stealth troops and no stealth leader. Too bad, or I'd actually build their militia.

For a hobbit theme to be a serious contender, though, I think supply needs to be rescaled. I've been giving it a lot of thought, and come up with a few possibilites for troop supply usage...

1) Supply = size * 5
2) Supply = HP
3) Supply = HP + Encumbrance
4) Supply = HP * Encumbrance
5) Supply = HP + Resources/2

In most of these, the supply usage would be about 10 for a normal human light infantry (rather than the current 1). For most of them (the ones based mainly on HP) mounted units should multiply supply usage by 2, or add 10, or something... or else mount supply usage could be calculated separately and summed, for units like Black Hunters where there actually are independant stats for the riders and beasts.

Yes, I admit, it's off topic, but it is highly relevant to hobbit themes=)

-Cherry

Re: Theme Wars (Race/Theme Balance)
 

The sidhe that were added to Man as a theme are elves though it matches sources other than tolkien/DnD for its paramaeters. And at my house the race with the spiders gets referred to as Drow.

Re: Theme Wars (Race/Theme Balance)
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">They are at least absolute best indy crossbows(like you would have much to pick from http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif ), but Longbowmen have precision of 12(not sure what HCB's have), faster rate of fire than crossbows have and they can skewer anything that lacks heavy armor.


And i see very litle connection between Drows and Machaka(apart from dark skin color and spiders). Someone care to elaborate? Other than "they both have spiders"?