Storming Castles
 

I have finally beseiged Ry'leh. After killing their pretender twice. This nation is really, really annoying (since I started by the sea).


I am about to storm a castle for the very first time in my gaming history. It's exciting.

The fortress in question is one of those kelp structures with minimal defense. There don't appear to be very many defenders. None that I can see at least. Probably some star children.

When I storm the castle, what kind of losses am I in for? Assume minimal army inside.

Also, I'm very worried that my character with the sea king's goblet and the manual of water breathing may be assassinated. I have 8 commanders down there to make this less likely.

If he gets killed, they all drown? Or do I have one turn to move them ashore?

Hehe. This game is so amazing.

Re: Storming Castles
 

Storm with something cheap, like a scout. Just to get an idea of whats inside. Set him way to the back of the battlefield as a formation, and tell him to hold, hold, retreat. That will give you time to pause the battle and examine what you are up against. Note their positions, whether there are lots of flyers. Yes water troops have flyers. They are actualy swimmers as oppossed to bottom-crawlers. How many mages? What spells do they like to cast first?

If it seems like he might be able to get the province back from you then make it suck for him. Set the taxes to 200%, capture blood slaves, pillage. If the unrest is over 100 then he cant recruit anything even if he does get it back. Not until he patrols it down under 100 unrest.

If it looks like you can hold it easier than take it, maybe you should wait. Tax it to death (not like you could build much there anyway if you arent a water nation). Provide preachers and try to preach him to death. Or maybe lots of troops and starve him.

remember he still gets to cast summons so if it looks like he is willing to boost his army with summoned creatures then it might be worth a rush to take out some mages even if it doesnt get you the castle.

Re: Storming Castles
 

Ry'leh is a pain that's for sure, just wait until you get double declared by them and Ermor (with about 2000 troops along my boarder http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif ) in a span of three turns. I had just knocked Ry'leh back into the seas, and was ready to tackle him there when Ermor (whos waaaaaay ahead in the game) decides to pounce on me. Since I'm Marignon I figure I can retreat strategically to pull together enough holy men to start smacking Ermor, but if I do that then Ry'leh is off the hook, and he'll start messing with me again... sigh...

Anyway, to keep this on topic, I sent all my water capeable forces (such as they are, but at least my pretender is there...) to seige Ry'lehs home province, hoping I can hold his forces there long enough to solidify my crumbling boarder with Ermor. I'm probably happy to just tax and pillage Ry'leh rather than risk the loses from storming the citadel, but if I can I'll knock him out. The problem is that most of my fire magic won't work underwater, though I can likely astral duel his mages, but that's gonna be risky as all hell. Otherwise just keep on sending in hoards of tritons (assuming you have a sea province or two to recruit them from) and hope you can evenually overwhelm his defenses by weight of sheer numbers.

Re: Storming Castles
 

I have a mass of heavey infantry (about 75) there and about 3 good magi, 4 cruddy magi, and some uberpriests.

If there are no units in the castle or very few, what losses will I sustain trying to storm?

Let me clarify...on the overland map I don't even see any army inside the castle. Is that a quick, swift, automatic victory?

Also, can I be assassinated while storming?

Re: Storming Castles
 

During the turns spent merely sieging, the defender can try to assassinate the besiegers (if he has any assassins... and star children are cheap) while the besieger cannot. A storm is a single battle, 'tho, and assassins are just like any other unit if they participate.
The defender's troops are also not known (would a Stone Sphere work? Probably. Don't otherwise go Astral Probing R'lyeh 'tho.), hence the suggestion of a suicide scout.
If you have Earth Attack available, that will work even underwater and during a siege. That's pretty high up 'tho. Mind Hunt would work, except that you'll probably end up with feebleminded mages because R'lyeh is astrally proficient.
Tritons are a good idea; if you don't have scads of mindless or high-MR troops, another counter for mind-bLasting is having numerous cheap, incredibly mobile troops that spend a minimum time getting paralyzed before they even reach the illithids.

Re: Storming Castles
 

I don't think you can see the army while storming, it's hidden. At least I've checked and seen the 'no hostile military units' stormed, and met up with resistance beyond the handful of commanders you assume are there.

With that much HI you might be able to take it, but the mind burn slowing your advance through the gate my be problamatic. I'd really try to get some tritons in there (if you can) to swim in and create some trouble while your slow HI advance through the gate.

Do you have any spells that will work underwater?

Re: Storming Castles
 

Survivalist, if you want to know what's left inside recruit a cheapo triton lord in the next sea & pull Gandalf's trick or alternatively cast Astral Window on the province.

Re: Storming Castles
 

If my commander with the water breathing gear gets assassinated, do all my troops die, or do they have a turn under alternative leadership to swim ashore?

If the former, I will storm immediately. If the latter, I will send in that el cheapo triton lord.

I don't yet have that orb that lets you probe, but one would be nice. How much information does it give you? Can you see the spheres on the mage commanders?

Re: Storming Castles
 

(bump)

Apologies if this is inappropriate.

Re: Storming Castles
 

If your units will not survive in water or can go with another commander; they drown.

Re: Storming Castles
 

Hmmm. That sounds very dangerous. Last turn, there were 2 successful assassination attempts against my commanders in nearby provinces by those bLasted star children. They beat the heck out of empoisoners as assassins, or maybe I just don't use empoisoners right.

If you had 75 HI down there...and known assassins nearby...likely more assassins in their fortress...would you storm it? My guess is yes. On the army size screen, they hardly have an army and just have one other province and their capital is all.

When I read on fortresses in the manual, there is something about shots per tower and such. Are these actual defenders or just what will be happening to my troops as I advance? I'm trying to figure out my losses. But I'm guessing 75 HI will be adequate backed by mage power.

Re: Storming Castles
 

Just preach them out, make sure each of your mages have a guard of 5, make sure they have minds so the star children will not only be able to mind burn your commander. Or if they have stellar cascades you are pretty screwed unless you script your commander with something that will kill the star child first.

Re: Storming Castles
 

They have stellar cascades. My commanders are sauromancers, shamen, and serpent kings (those 4 holy priest serpent guys).

Re: Storming Castles
 

Starchilds are arguably the best assasins in the game. Paralysing attack with 50 range and astral magic, whats not to like?

Re: Storming Castles
 

They have powerful dominion (like 5 or 6) in the only 2 provinces they have left. But their wyrm-god is dead for the second time.

He started with some very high magic skills. It has been amusing to watch them drop 2 every time I kill him.

Re: Storming Castles
 

Also, I can't give my magi a guard of 5 since I don't have tritons there at the moment and my army has to be under the command of the guy with the water breathing items or it can't be underwater at all.

Re: Storming Castles
 

I'd pull out the 75 HI and put them on land where they belong, relieving them with tritons or whatever underwater units I had. I haven't assaulted a Ry'leh nor a kelp fortress before, so I don't know what if any active defenses they have built-in. On land, good fortresses tend to have missile units on the walls which are part of the fort, not part of the army, and which in many cases can cause massive casualties, particularly if the defending mages and/or troops can hold off the attackers for a while.

However kelp fortresses might not have any such defenses.

Sometimes you get a report of no enemy presence in a castle because your scouts have failed, but when you show up there's a tough garrison there. Spies can sometimes show you what's there, but sending in a scout attack is a way to actually see what's there.

PvK

Re: Storming Castles
 

Are the forces it lists under "tower" the total forces present? Or are there multiple towers per fortress?

I am going by pp. 10-11 of the manual. 4 shortbows and 1 mind bLast doesn't sound all that bad.

Re: Storming Castles
 

Multiple towers per fortress, based on fortress type. The shortbows wouldn't apply under water. Also I think Kelp Fortresses may not have any towers - there's another thread here somewhere with a list of tower numbers, I think...

PvK

Re: Storming Castles
 

Ok, I found it HERE.

It says kelp forts don't have any missiles, so you know whom to blame if they get ten mind bLast attacks per turn. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

PvK

Re: Storming Castles
 

Thanks, PvK. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

I stormed it before I saw your message. Only units I lost were 2 swamp guards and 3 shamen.

I was really unlucky with the shamen. The star child astral dueled me 3 times and won all three times. I guess the attacker has an advantage? Or a castle defender has an advantage? Maybe the shamen are at a disadvantage underwater? Or maybe I was just unlucky?

I absolutely love this game. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif Now to take Ry'leh's Last poorly defended sea province and destroy them forever!!! (Well...for this game at least.) I think I will send some shamen over to farm their void and see what I find. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Storming Castles
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Thats me, was the information accurate then ? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

Re: Storming Castles
 

The information was very accurate. And very much appreciated.

By the way...any strategy tips for those hill fortresses? They sound pretty brutal. I guess ULM has a decent advantage in seiges with respect to what's coming at them from the towers. Especially when it's shortbows. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

After doing the reading, while the 40-admin castle might be easy to breach with only 100 defense, it doesn't sound that easy to storm.

Re: Storming Castles
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">C'Tis towers are brutal against Ulm though, as the poison is very dangerous to them.