Nation/Race Guide
 

I have briefly scanned the newbie guide, but I was hoping to find a more consice source of data of the various races/nations. In particular I am interested in the hidden effects each race has, such as Ulm's incredible money generation. Happened to play a long hot-seat game with my brother-in-law over the Thanksgiving Holiday, was shocked at the amount of income that Ulm generates.

I am curious if the more experienced community members could state what some of the other hidden benefits are. In particular what does Marignon's Inquisition allow you to do and how does one take advantage of the extra defences created by T'ien C'hi with an increased order scale? I noticed in the hot-seat game as Marignon I never had the unrest problems as my brother-in-law's Ulmish. I know for a fact that he did not raise taxes.

Re: Nation/Race Guide
 

Very hefty request. This game is a great game for the reason that everything in it can generate pages and pages of discussion on its pros and cons. Check the threads here. Single nations have generated pages, much less trying to discuss all 17 of them, AND the various theme which can add half a dozen completely new set of pros and cons to a nation.

I dont mean to put you off but any answer is likely to generate a flood of different answers. If you dont mind a suggestion Id say try playing them all. Seriously. Have fun discovering little advantages and disadvantages. If anything seems to be either "automatically good" or "automatically a rotten choice" then come back and ask about it. those are fun discussions. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Nation/Race Guide
 

I don't know if there is any specific racial 'specials' outside of their units, starting magic sites and preference for scales.

Income is AFAIK only affected by provinces, scales, castle admin, and alchemy.

I don't know your scales; but I do know that Ulm do not have as much of an issue with money as other races, as most of their units are heavily resource dependant and not gold. They also have with an initial income of 5 Earth gems, to Alchemy early if they ever do run into that situation.

Most of the information is on a unit basis. Like the Inquisitors of Marignon are especially good at repressing enemy dominion.

I believe Sunraybe's site has the working mechanics of a Race by Race graph. It is located here http://www.freewebs.com/sunray_dom2/

I do not know if he has had time to update it or need more information from other people.

Hope that gives some insight.

Re: Nation/Race Guide
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I will admit it is a hefty request, probably too big. However, having played many games, losing the majority to the AI, it seems that I must be doing something wrong. Primarily I play as Marignon and it seems to be extremely difficult to win as this nation, which is part of the fun http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif .

However, it seems to me that the more humanistic races, i.e. Pythium, Marignon, Man, have a serious disadvantage, unless like Ulm they can tolerate having a negative dominion scale. It seems that Abyssia, Emor, Jotunheim, et al. have big advantages by being able to take large negative scales, especially Emor, without having to suffer any of the consequences.

So if anyone out there wants to advice me on how to set up a winning Pythium, Marignon, or Man I am ready to listen.

[ December 01, 2003, 22:45: Message edited by: Aetius ]

Re: Nation/Race Guide
 

Aetius,

The best would be to discover for yourself, as it opens your eyes to different possibilities with all the other races. But in the spirit of help and friendliness there are a few points I'd hope to help you with.

A good number of the "Human" races are among the most powerful. Man, Pithium and Arco are all among the top all around contenders, though they don't all play the same.

Most of what I'll be saying are some tips to utilize in your own personal playstyle and game situation.

Man:

Knights and KoA. Pricy, strong troops that move fast and can be used to break an enemy or hold back a line or fight those summons along with their Longbow backup.

Longbows. Cheap, effective, good precision, fast to build. Longbows also make very effective Indy killers and sacrificial troops. Also forces opponents to use counters (Storm spell effects, Arrow Fend, etc) for them, otherwise they will be at a disadvantage. Able to pierce heavy armor fairly well especially with the number of troops you can produce.

Crones. A cheap way to make a disposable army. Crones have access to Air and Nature magic. Nature 3 in Fact, which will allow them to summon Vine Ogres (3 Nature, 1 Nature Gem). Equip 4 or 5 crones (Or more!) with Ivy Crowns, and later, Treelord Staff's and set them to monthly ritual of Vine Ogres and you have yourself the heavy disposable troops to use in tandem with your longbowmen. You can field incredible, mobile armies with Vine Ogres with minimal gem usage. Very valuable. Then for combat they have access to Air and Nature making them highly precise (Eagle Eyes) have good spells like River of Life, Orb Lightning, Regeneration, Haste, etc. For a variety of uses to cripple and kill your opponent while buffing your own troops.

Wardens, Monks, Bards, Mothers of Avalon. Ever wanted a stealth army? Covert ops and behind the line fighting more your style? Welcome to Man, only matched by Pangaea for the availiability of good stealth units and commanders. Proper use of these types of troops are invaluable and can turn the tide of a war easily.

Last but not least, Bards (again). Bards are highly stealthy, can instill uprising, have valuable songs, cheap (75 Gold), research, 1 Nature, can move 2 and are buildable outside of the capital. These guys are great for support and intel.

That is just Man, and that is only in one playstyle, there are a variety that work and one of the best things, is the ability to adapt.

Re: Nation/Race Guide
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Ignoring Marignon the answer is something like order3, misfortune3, prod3, +growth as much as you can afford, castle or wizards tower and build lots of HI and more castles/towers for more HI. With Pythium some of your HI even gets a strat move of 2. With Arco you get Hopilites and Elephants can gobble up your spare gold and be fun to learn to use - as long as you don't mind getting trampled a bit along the way. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Don't forget sermons of courage and when you can get it Fanatacism as morale decides battles - all my armies have a morale booster along and if its a big one they better be able to do Fanatacism or I better have a few.

Magic is really cool and dandy and you can do wonderful things with but its actually somewhat optional until the mid-to-late game. It can be a distraction from getting out there and conquering. I say this partly as both Arco and Pythiums magic, while v.powerfil is fairly diverse and/or complicated so you may not want to pay it to much mind initially. Drain scales can work fine and both races are so strong that they should be able to out-Ulm Ulm early plus get magic later.

Marignon is another matter and more complicated an answer. Similar sort of scales to above. I would suggest for the start trying defensive army deployments using alot of Xbow, some men-at-arms a bit to the fore on hold-and-atack as pin cushions, Greatswords (H-a-A)if you want strike infantry and Knights etc when you can afford. You can build some GM's early and use them for holy pyre and morale boosting and they will get on the hall of fame. All in all very shooty early on and can be fun.

Enjoy,

Keir

[ December 02, 2003, 05:15: Message edited by: Keir Maxwell ]

Re: Nation/Race Guide
 

If you are feeling inspired Aetius you might want to try Pythium with the Prince of Death with death9. Build up you mage force and then send it into a insignificant battle, blessed, deployed beside a Hydra hatchling which moves off leaving the poisononed mages to die and return as soulless mages with no upkeep.

And the PoD is great for fast expansion.

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Keir

[ December 02, 2003, 05:14: Message edited by: Keir Maxwell ]

Re: Nation/Race Guide
 

I've only played the demo so far (come on xmas), but why should you start with your pretender as a level 9 in any magic? by the time the magic level maters, wouldn't you have the gem income to empower? wouldn't those points be better spent on the dominion scales?

Re: Nation/Race Guide
 

Bless effects.

And you get one nasty support mage too! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: Nation/Race Guide
 

But as a support mage, you are still limited to spells you have researched. By the time you have gotten those upper level spells researched, you should have enough gems coming in to empower your pretender high enough to cast them.

(I am looking at it as you can not affect the way your scales are set once the game begins but you can change the level of magic for your pretender, or anyone else for that matter)

Are bless effects really that good?

Re: Nation/Race Guide
 

The death 9 bless effect means that when you are blessed and die you come back as Soulless - not much use for a warrior but handy for a mage as undead have no upkeep.

The Prince of Death is primarily deadly for his fear effect which increases with his level in death magic - both in area of effect and in nastiness.

If you are playing Ctis you start with the spell Terror whihc goes up in strength based on Death power. Its worthwhile making up a PoD death9 Ctis race just to watch those clouds of billowing black terror driving the enemy from the field.

Cheers

Keir

[ December 02, 2003, 07:52: Message edited by: Keir Maxwell ]

Re: Nation/Race Guide
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Think Jhotun Niefelheim theme using Mother Nature with Earth9, Nature9 for turning Niefel Giants into monstrosities. Yum, Yum. Can't remember what the thread on that was called but a search on Niefelheim should find it.

Do a search for a thread called "Dancers of Death" for a handy Ctis water9 death6 race which can be tweaked or altered in many ways and still provide some impressive results. I have not found the "best" Version yet and when I come with mine I promise not to tell. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Its a case of looking for sacred troops that can become much better given some of the sacred effects and then trying to squeeze enough points out of dominion to afford it.

Are bless effect races the "way to go"? No - but they are fun and they weren't in Dom1. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

cheers

Keir

Re: Nation/Race Guide
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Yes, I'm working on short "nation guides" too. So far I've only prepared something for Jotunheim Iron Woods : http://www.freewebs.com/sunray_dom2/jotun.html

That takes a *lot* of time. I'm still working on a complete list of magic sites, and trying to harmonize the units DB.

You should check my dom1 site, since 90% of the information is still useful for dom2 IMO
http://www.freewebs.com/sunraybe

Cheers

Re: Nation/Race Guide
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Yes, I'm working on short "nation guides" too. So far I've only prepared something for Jotunheim Iron Woods : http://www.freewebs.com/sunray_dom2/jotun.html

That takes a *lot* of time. I'm still working on a complete list of magic sites, and trying to harmonize the units DB.

You should check my dom1 site, since 90% of the information is still useful for dom2 IMO
http://www.freewebs.com/sunraybe

Cheers </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Sunray, I have visited your site before, good work thus far. To the others that have posted, thank you for the information, I will have to give some of these other strategies a try.

On my own I have experimented and found that with Marignon early you need an army with a large number of crossbows and a thin shield of HI. I have frequently captured independent provinces without any losses. Lastly to the community members thanks again for all of the input.

Re: Nation/Race Guide
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Jotun is strong. But Ermor and Abysia have their own problems. Pythium, Man and Marignon are all strong nations - somebody might disagree on the Marignon bit.

The key is to keep it simple. You can go for the lot of varieties when you're more comfortable with the game. Keir Maxwell gave some good examples. Though personally, I never like unluck.

To beat AIs, you can use the simplest pretender, a Wyrm or a low magic dragon. Use the other points on good scales and a decent castle. Spend all you income on simple Heavy Infantries. Go out and conqueror. You would be the largest nations before turn 20. Then just crush the AI one by one when they declare war on you. It works even for Marignon. The only trick you need to know is which indie to attack first.

Actually, I think the same strategy work equally well with human players. There are troop killing spells and super-combatants to handle. But still, gold and resource matter the most in many cases.

P.S. Marignon's crossbow is wonderful. But because of their slow firing rate, you need a larger number to be effective. Your expansion won't be as fast.

Re: Nation/Race Guide
 

Yes! Sunray's nation guides are my number one favorite resource for Dominions. Please, please, please cover every nation and theme this time (it was annoying in Dom1 when I'd pick a race and not have anything but a few Usenet threads to back me up).

Re: Nation/Race Guide
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Thanks for your support. Covering every nation and theme of dom2 is a hell of a lot of work! I did not covered every nation of dom1 because... I never played them all (even after 2 years).
If you have anything to contribute, please LMK.
Rather than write guides, I keep the units DB as my priority.
Cheers

[ December 04, 2003, 12:22: Message edited by: Sunray_be ]