GIMP and maps
 

Im beginning to think Shrapnel could split the Illwinter forum as it has with other games. Game questions vs game development? Something like that? Are we working with GIMP? Most discussion could probably apply to any high-end paint program I guess. Should I move it to another forum? The problem there is that Id end up doing alot of discussion about the end result Im headed for.

For those who dont know GIMP (GNU Image Manipulation Program) is a fancy paint program that most programmers get into at some point. Its FREE and works on most systems (Windows, Linux, MAC OS-X, OS/2, Solaris, *BSD, HP-UX, IRIX). The drawbacks are that its not the kind of paint program that you use its the type of paint program that you learn. Also worth mentioning is that most of the conversation about GIMP including downloading, installing, directory structures and such, is spoken in UNIX (which is rather like an offshoot of klingon) so its rather hard to follow for those who only speak Windows or Mac.

www.gimp.org/win32
www.macgimp.org
www.gimp.org

[ December 04, 2003, 16:47: Message edited by: Gandalf Parker ]

Re: GIMP and maps
 

Now Ive seen mention that some appropriate brushes might be coming for use in Dom2 maps. Just clipping the trees and mountains and such might work. Im not sure if having a seperate picture file for each is good unless there is a way to keep them in a seperate menu or something so they dont all load every time I use gimp.

Maybe just a seperate jpg with those on it just far enough apart from each other to make it easy to clip-n-paste? Having 2 images up at once (template and map Im working on) seems less cluttered to me than 100 brushes.

And Im suspecting that one of the advantages of using gimp would be the layers feature? I could list a bunch of sites (probably should) where you can get things like satellite images, topographical maps, world maps, fantasy world maps. All of them would work as the initial image. Then Im thinking the cool thing is to work the borders and capital dots as an overlay image? Starting with an image and save it to a layer, then drop the colors immensley and do an edge detect to get some borders based on terrains. Save that to a layer, add more borders for provinces, add capital dots, overlay and save? Something like that?

Im about to tackle learning the layers thing if anyone has some hints.

-- WARNING: Flu symptoms have been detected. My Posts will begin to ramble and may result in garbage. Or feverish genius. Let me know which after I fully recover.
- Gandalf Parker

[ December 04, 2003, 17:18: Message edited by: Gandalf Parker ]

Re: GIMP and maps
 

SCRIPTs

Has anyone been working with the random generator scripts? (to get there do these)
Xtns
   Script-Fu
      Patterns
         Flatland
         Land
         Render Map

I love the tiling effect (makes it world-wrappable). Maybe we can come up with some numbers that get us maps closer to what we are used to. Id like to see less water. I prefer 1, 2, or 3 oceans rather than water all around islands. I suppose you could generate a really large one then crop a map from it that fits your needs but then it wouldnt be wrappable.

I suppose if we worked on the gradient we could get one that would fit our needs much more. Remove any use of 255,255,255 white (capital color) and shift the dark greens into grey which would make the higher elevations into mountains.

Re: GIMP and maps
 

I just noticed a neat script to make a twirling globe out of an image. That would be way cool with the world-wrappable maps. Not much use other than a neat thing to see on a web page of the maps I guess but I liked the idea. Probably work best with the original layer since it would distort province borders and not look as good.

[ December 04, 2003, 16:45: Message edited by: Gandalf Parker ]

Re: GIMP and maps
 

Anyone who has a GIMP from before Nov 24th....

Subject: ANNOUNCE: The GIMP 1.3.23
From: "Joao S. O. Bueno"
NewsGroups: comp.graphics.apps.gimp

[Gimp-developer] ANNOUNCE: The GIMP 1.3.23
Date: Today 09:58:50
From: David Neary
To: gimp-announce(at )lists.xcf.berkeley.edu
CC: gimp-user(at )lists.xcf.berkeley.edu

Hi all,

The next release in the development series of the GIMP, Version
1.3.23, is now available for download from

ftp://ftp.gimp.org/pub/gimp/v1.3/v1.3.23/

or from one of the mirrors listed at http://gimp.org/download.html

This is expected to be the final release before we enter a
pre-release cycle. A great deal of work has gone into stabilising
the plug-in API, and fixing a large number of outstanding issues
before the 2.0 release, so we think that this release of the GIMP
is the best yet. More than ever, we would like people to download
and build this release, and try to break it in new and
interesting ways.

Happy GIMPing,
Dave.


Overview of Changes in GIMP 1.3.23
==================================
- Color proof display filter using ICC profiles written by Banlu
Kemiyatorn
- New gimprc options to work around window management problems [Sven,
Brix]
- Fixes for using GIMP on Xinerama setups [Sven]
- Numerous libgimp* API cleanups [Mitch, Sven]
- Theme switching in the preferences dialog [Mitch]
- Added a small theme [Mitch]
- Cleanup and unification of message strings [Mitch]
- 64bit clean libgimp API [Yosh]
- New plug-in color selector using color-selector modules [Mitch]
- GimpCanvas drawing abstraction [Sven]
- Added DICOM file plug-in by Dov Grobgeld
- Imported new WMF plug-in from libwmf2 [Sven, Mitch]
- A session name can be given on the command-line [Sven]
- Allow to move image windows and docks between screens [Mitch, Sven]
- Fixed multi-head issues [Mitch]
- Allow to merge visible paths [Simon]
- Redone GimpDialog API [Mitch]
- Load GIMP brush format Version 3 [Sven]
- Allow to use GIMP without any fonts [Sven]
- Lots of bug fixes

Other contributors:
Ville PÃ?tsi, Eric Pierce, Tor Lillqvist, Henrik Brix Andersen,
Manish Singh, Dom Lachowicz, Francis James Franklin, Dave Neary,
Maurits Rijk, Joao S. O. Bueno, Michael Schumacher, Daniel Rogers,
Hans Breuer, Jakub Steiner

--
David Neary,
Lyon, France.
E-Mail: bolsh(at )gimp.org


--
David Neary,
Lyon, France
E-Mail: bolsh(at )gimp.org

Re: GIMP and maps
 

Hi,

I thought I'd reply so the echo doesn't get too much for you in here. <grin>

Are these scripts you're talking about strictly for GIMP? I'm very familiar with Paint Shop Pro and would prefer to use that to do maps rather than relearn how to paint, but I don't think PSP has anything like scripts.

OTH, I can clone surfaces and use them as textures/brushes, so it has occurred to me that I might be able to come up with maps without too much tinkering, once I understand what D2 needs.

Also, is GIMP a strictly UNIX prog? If so, I definitely wouldn't be running it, as I haven't done UNIX. (I have thought of building (rebuilding) an older system (P3 550) and making it a Linux box so I could see what it's like running D2 that way.


Now, Mr. Vastness, read the third line,
Does this look better? Or this?
V'ger gone

Re: GIMP and maps
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Thanks, I truly appreciate that.
<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I have a copy of PSP around somewhere (ver 6)
I think they are just gimp. They were written apprently in something called "scheme" though there are some perl module things. I doubt they would call PSP properly.
<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Creating a paintbrush set for maps would go a long way. Mountains, trees, volcano, snow, etc.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Nope there are Versions for most OS's including windows. http://www.gimp.org/~tml/gimp/win32/
Actually thats the one Im using. My linux is an internet server and I dont like clogging it with alot of gui graphical stuff.

Gimp is free so you can always run it just for the map gnerator and then use PSP to edit it. That seems kindof kludgy but it would work.

Something else you might do if you are a good googler is pick up on something I let drop. Print out one of the tga maps from the game and search the web for free map generators or paintbrush sets that are pretty close.

[ December 05, 2003, 02:54: Message edited by: Gandalf Parker ]

Re: GIMP and maps
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Scheme is a real programming language - not exactly C or C++ popular, but it existed before the Gimp.

Re: GIMP and maps
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Scheme is a real programming language - not exactly C or C++ popular, but it existed before the Gimp. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">True and its used as part of many projects. One of interest to me (and maybe Johan) is scsh which is a scheme shell for the unix environments (GNU HURD compliant). Im debating that since I do alot of trouble-shooting on other peoples machines. Ive tried not to get too attached to things I wont find on other systems.

It just reinforces something I say about GIMP. Its not the kindof paint program you use. Its the kindof paint program you learn.

[ December 05, 2003, 22:22: Message edited by: Gandalf Parker ]

Re: GIMP and maps
 

OK now that the DomMap project is creating playable maps for Dom2 I would like to clean up the ones Im auto-generating.
http://www.techno-mage.com/~dominion...s2/RandomMaps/

The maps look better blurred. Easier on the eyes. But that messes up the capitals.

My thinking is to capture or set aside the white dots, then blur/smear/smudge/despeckled the map, then paste the white-dots back down. Maybe something like copy all of a color (255/255/255) to a layer, blur, then mrge layers?

Better yet if it could be 3 colors, the white and the two borders. Best of all if it could be scripted.

Re: GIMP and maps
 

You needn't script it. At least, I dunno how to do that http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

It's a matter of a few seconds, anyhow.
Letme try to show how. Sorry if I don't get the menue item names right - I'm using the german Version and can't really remember the english labelling from the previous Version.


Right-click on the pic. Use "select", "per color" (or something like that, it's way down the list that pops up), turn "impreciseness" down to "0", klick on a white pixel.

open the layers menue.
right-click on the pic again, choose "selection", "floating"

in the layer menue there will appear a "floating selection" entry, already marked as active (blue)

hit "keep transparency", than the "new layer" button. the floating selection will be converted into a transparent, "floating layer".

you may rename it to "pixels" or something ...

Activate the backgraound layer, do any smoothing and anti-aliasing you wish.

Proceed similarly for other colors to generate borders etc.

If you add another layer for "objects", you may copy in trees, bushes, mountains etc. from another pic easily. You may even select them later again and move them around by dragging - as long as you keep them on a seperate, transparent layer.

When done, merge all layers.

hope this is helpful

A.

Re: GIMP and maps
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Yeah almost worth learning Scheme just to make a script-fu of it. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">OK thats great, and I will do it. But Im not going to do it to 30 files every day. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

Maybe if I find a really good one in one of the batches I will do this and then use it as a basis for one of my fun random things.

Maybe if I copy the steps to one of the gimp or scheme newsGroups I can get someone to script it out.
Thanks for the steps.

[ January 16, 2004, 02:26: Message edited by: Gandalf Parker ]

Re: GIMP and maps
 

WOW thanks Arralen! That worked SO WELL.
Here is a short Version I worked up for use with my Windows Version of GIMP

load .tga and open layers
Rclick image, select-> by color, choose color, Shft-Ctrl-L
go to layers, clik "keep transp", clik "new layer"
select original layer, repeat above for both border colors
after getting 3 transparent floating layers, select blur
Ctrl-M to merge all layers then save

Now if I could just get someone to autoscript it http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ January 16, 2004, 18:23: Message edited by: Gandalf Parker ]

Re: GIMP and maps
 

A note on the routine used to make the DomMap images alittle more pleasing to the eye. Ihave dicovered that using the SCATTER effect before doing the BLUR makes a much nicer result. Scatter basically takes large areas of a single color (green, blue, tan) and mixies it up abit with sight variations. If I use it at a setting of 8 then the green area becomes a mix of greens within 8 slight variations of the original shade. This works well for adding alittle visual variety to provinces that ended up a solid block of color. Especialy the water.

Re: GIMP and maps
 

GIMP 2.0 is OUT! Get it here... www.gimp.org

The first stable release to officially support unix, linux, windows and mac. Alot of nice additions. mostly visual and easier to use layouts. GIMP scripting, besides supporting scheme... now supports python, C, and PERL.

[ March 25, 2004, 16:15: Message edited by: Gandalf Parker ]

Re: GIMP and maps
 

Is anyone playing with the new GIMP? Ive had trouble getting it to run in Windows XP.

At first I got errors that now dont show up (wish Id written it down the first time) but the program doesnt load. Ive seen Messages in the GIMP newsgroup where others have problems and fix it with various old dll deletes or some fonts. Here is part of the conversation on that...

> 1) Do a search for ".fonts.Cache-1"
> 2) On Windows XP, you should find the file in the C:\Documents and
> Settings\username directory.
> 3) Open the file in notepad or wordpad.
> 4) Do a search for "profont.fon" in the file.
> 5) You should see 7 lines for this font. The Last two lines read as
> follows:
> "C:\\WINDOWS\\fonts\\profont.fon" 5 1035317746 "ProFontWindows
> "C:\\WINDOWS\\fonts\\profont.fon" 6 1035317746 "ProFontWindows
> 6) Immediately after the words ProFontWindows you should see some
> unreadable characters (and maybe even some readable ones that
> shouldn't be there). Delete them.
> 7) The beginning of the Last two lines should now look like this:
> "C:\\WINDOWS\\fonts\\profont.fon" 5 1035317746 "ProFontWindows:style
> "C:\\WINDOWS\\fonts\\profont.fon" 6 1035317746 "ProFontWindows:style

It worked for some but I dont find ProFonts in mine so I suspect its another font. I may have to set aside time to hack that file.

[ March 28, 2004, 14:37: Message edited by: Gandalf Parker ]

Re: GIMP and maps
 

OK I finally ironed out my problems with GIMP2. This is my post from the comp.graphics.apps.gimp newsgroup.

> Thank you for following up on this. I ran into these same problem,
> but your idea did not work for me as I didn't have profont for some
> reason.

Yep me too so Ive been waiting for a different sugestion.

> What I did do was rename ".fonts.Cache-1" Started gimp and it
> worked... It also rebuilt ".fonts.Cache-1" when it started..

Sounded good. I was hopeful. But not yet.

I did finally see the error window stick around long enugh to read it. It
said.......
> >(gimp-1.3.exe:1542): Glib-CRITICAL **:file gconvert.c: line 498
> >(g_convert): assertion 'str != NULL' failed
and an error report which wanted to be sent to microsoft about msvcrt.dll
(I have WinXP). I googled extensively for both in web and newsGroups. I
found them many times in relation to many programs, but no real answers. So
I will include them in this post to allow others to find this.

By now I was determined so here is what I did. I opened a window to C:
\windows\fonts. Then I created a c:\temp directory and opened a window to
that. I sized both windows so that I could see them side by side. Now I
went thru the fonts one at a time double-clicking them one at a time which
brought them up in "Windows Font Viewer". I had no idea what I was looking
for but most of the displays looked pretty much the same. Any that looked
different I dragged it over to the temp window then tried to open GIMP.

Finally, after moving a file called BBCWIN.FON gimp came up. I closed it
and moved back all the fonts but that Last one, then opened gimp again.
Then, just to be sure, I deleted the C:\Documents and Settings\Gandalf
\.fonts.Cache-1 file and opened gimp again which took longer while it
rebuilt the fonts file. YAY! I HAVE GIMP 2.0!

Thank you everyone here for the various hints, tips, bits and pieces. Feel
free to put these steps on some web page somewhere so it will web-google
for people also.

Gandalf Parker
-- I have often spent way too much money
because I GNU too little on a subject