tactic vs underwater
 

since i'm mostly playing ulm (have to, i live there http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif ), i have a problem when facing underwater nations (espacially r'lyeh). i can repel their attacks, throw them back into the sea if they conquer one of my provinces.

but i want to take the battle to them. ulm (at least with my setup) isn't that good at magic. i usually go with earth and fire magic, which gives some good items, and fire magic helps in land battles. underwater of course it's nearly useless.

conquering an amphibian inhabited province seems the best way so far. i'm curious whether there are better ways. would empowering work? give a commander or spellcasting mercenary water magic?

Re: tactic vs underwater
 

If your Ulm and fighting an enemy from underwater then I suggest you invest in either Air, Water or Death magic. These magics will allow ways for you to fight back... either by creating items or casting spells.

conquering an amphibian inhabited province will take many turns to raise an army.

[ December 16, 2003, 14:35: Message edited by: NTJedi ]

Re: tactic vs underwater
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Crusher and the Clockwork Horror should be amphibian though they might fight well enough.

Re: tactic vs underwater
 

Most water units fight badly (if at all) on land. And land units tend to fight badly in water. What I tend to do is build an army that can go into the water (constructs, undead, shamblers, whatever) and when a water-capable set of mercs come up I let that decide my timing.

I try to take one out of the way spot so I can start building up WATER units there. Dont keep marching forward and spread yourself too thin. It works best to try and take water provinces with water units.

Remember that any mage with a water magic skill can enter the water. If it has more than one water magic it can take another ait-breather (1 for each water point) with him.

Re: tactic vs underwater
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I think illithids would disagree with this statement. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: tactic vs underwater
 

Golems do very well against the Squiddies, investing in a few of those to get a foothold works very well. Remember when fighting Squiddies; it's the numbers that really matter. If they can mind bLast 50 'elite' units and you only have 75, you are fairly bad off. However, if they can mind bLast 50 and you have 200 trash units, you'll win nearly every time.

Re: tactic vs underwater
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Golem is good - obviously.

Golem needs Astral. Something that a "magically poor" Ulm doesn't usually have. It also needs Construction 7, comparing to Crusher and Clockwork Horrors at Construction 5. And also, Golem is susceptible to Mind Duel of R'lyeh. It's fine versus computer but could be dangerous if it's against human.

Re: tactic vs underwater
 

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Yes, the reason I said Golem is because they are 'little SC's vs Squiddies and when taking on any underwater any nation you will have alot of provinces that can attack your coastal lands and you can attack as well.

Also Golem is a Commander, so it does not need a commander to drive him around; which is one issue that you will find with armies of Crushers and Clockworks; if their mage commander(s) die (because he's the only thing with a mind, so all the Squids target them) they all die too http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

Re: tactic vs underwater
 

great input!

hadn't really thought of constructs / golems. shows how much i still have to learn. (only got the game yesterday)


<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">does this include empowered spies? one scuba-diving scout should help determine where to attack with the rest of the army. the construct approach sounds good since i'm researching construction anyway, but i think i'll go with masses of shamblers. never really had a gold problem, and they cost only 1 resource per unit. should be enough to form the bridgehead. (or whatever they call it underwater http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif )

and, yes, this is vs. AI.

Re: tactic vs underwater
 

Reverend,

Empowerment costs 50 gems for the first level of skill.

It might be better to empower another mage if you have no one skilled in water...and then just give shambler skin armor to your spy.

I like the armor for unarmored units because it gives a bit of protection and costs the same as a water breathing ring. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif Not that protection will help your scout much if he's discovered.

Re: tactic vs underwater
 

There's also Water Cult, but since it only helps sacred units it's not necessarily the best choice for Ulm...

Re: tactic vs underwater
 

As YWL said, but IMHO didn't really emphasize enough, Golems suck against R'lyeh. Sure, it's immune to Mind BLast, but some Teleporting Starspawn will just spank you with Magic Duel, as a Golem only has Astral 2.

-Jasper

Re: tactic vs underwater
 

You can always equip the golem with Slave Collar... You need one blood, but you can hunt the slaves for empowerment even without any blood income or mages.

Re: tactic vs underwater
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">why slave collar? It only boosts morale IIRC.

Re: tactic vs underwater
 

It makes the wearer feebleminded, not sure if that helps though. Does feeblemind make you lose all magic skills or just unable to cast spells?

Re: tactic vs underwater
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I think illithids would disagree with this statement. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Let them disagree with my longbow regiments. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: tactic vs underwater
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">does this include empowered spies? one scuba-diving scout should help determine where to attack with the rest of the army. the construct approach sounds good since i'm researching construction anyway, but i think i'll go with masses of shamblers. never really had a gold problem, and they cost only 1 resource per unit. should be enough to form the bridgehead. (or whatever they call it underwater http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif )

and, yes, this is vs. AI. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">If you got enough water gems income, it's cheaper to empower *one* mage to Water one and have him forge "Ring of Water Breathing" (5 gems, Construction 2) or as another person said, Shambler Skin Armor (also 5 gems, Construction 2). There are other items to get you into the water but they're probably out of easy reach for Ulm.

Re: tactic vs underwater
 

This is not my experience at all! Illithids eat my Niefel Giants alive & the top Altantean heavy infantry are tough.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">

Re: tactic vs underwater
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I understand that. Its why I put the word "most" into the statement.