Pacifist / paralysing mines
 

Apologies in advance for not posting this as an attachment. Blowing up enemy ships becoming a drag? Why not vary their fate with these new warheads from Magitech inc.?
For more varied mine fun in components.txt add:
I have not tested these yet, so feel free to flame me if they don't work.


Name := Ion Pulse Mine Warhead I
Description := Large warhead which disables enemy ships.
Pic Num := 185
Tonnage Space Taken := 5
Tonnage Structure := 5
Cost Minerals := 500
Cost Organics := 0
Cost Radioactives := 200
Vehicle Type := Mine
Supply Amount Used := 5
Restrictions := None
General Group := Weapons
Family := 2026
Roman Numeral := 1
Custom Group := 0
Number of Tech Req := 2
Tech Area Req 1 := Explosive Warheads
Tech Level Req 1 := 1
Tech Area Req 2 := Engine Overloading Weapons
Tech Level Req 1 := 6
Number of Abilities := 0
Weapon Type := Warhead
Weapon Target := Ships\Planets\Ftr\Sat
Weapon Damage At Rng := 100 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Weapon Damage Type := Only Engines
Weapon Reload Rate := 0
Weapon Display Type := Torp
Weapon Display := 0
Weapon Modifier := 0
Weapon Sound := iondisp.wav
Weapon Family := 24


Or

Name := Tachyon Pulse Mine Warhead I
Description := Large warhead which disables enemy weapons.
Pic Num := 185
Tonnage Space Taken := 5
Tonnage Structure := 5
Cost Minerals := 500
Cost Organics := 0
Cost Radioactives := 200
Vehicle Type := Mine
Supply Amount Used := 5
Restrictions := None
General Group := Weapons
Family := 2026
Roman Numeral := 1
Custom Group := 0
Number of Tech Req := 2
Tech Area Req 1 := Explosive Warheads
Tech Level Req 1 := 1
Tech Area Req 2 := Weapon Overloading Weapons
Tech Level Req 1 := 1
Number of Abilities := 0
Weapon Type := Warhead
Weapon Target := Ships\Planets\Ftr\Sat
Weapon Damage At Rng := 100 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Weapon Damage Type := Only Weapons
Weapon Reload Rate := 0
Weapon Display Type := Torp
Weapon Display := 0
Weapon Modifier := 0
Weapon Sound := tpc.wav
Weapon Family := 24

Re: Pacifist / paralysing mines
 

I guess I just like the look of my own text...
Anyhow, the weapon destroying mines become a counterbalance to minesweepers as they knock out the PD cannon / sweepers. They're expensive but they leave the ships alive (for capture, muwhahaha etc.)

More happy thoughts from me :
Could the sight obscuration - system ability be added to a facility? Leading to a system wide jamming of all scanning of the system (making it appear empty) while allowing combat if units move to the same sector?

Re: Pacifist / paralysing mines
 

Sorry to break it to you, but your mines won't work. Someone else tried that in the murky past and discovered that all the sepcific damage mines will just keep going off until there are no mines left since the targeted ship will never get destroyed. The reason for this is that mines go boom until there is no more mines left or no more enemy ships to go boom on. So mines that only destroy a specific part on an enemy ship will keep going boom until they are all gone even it's just against a pitiful little escort because the pitiful little escort will never die.

Re: Pacifist / paralysing mines
 

Curses. Foiled again. I really should have thought about that.

How about mines with 2 warheads. One kills shields, the other does normal damage?

Re: Pacifist / paralysing mines
 

Like the idea of a building capable of jamming.
How about one that scans for cloaking ships and one for scans to see inside enemy ships as well fopr the netire system.
Put it into INTEL buildings, a new tech branch.

Re: Pacifist / paralysing mines
 

The only problem with building shield-busting mines is that shields are only on during combat. So shield-depleting mines would be useless (outside of combat). If, however, you use mines that destroy shield GENERATORS, they would be as useful as other special-damage mines. Speaking of which, you may want to try combos of engine-damaging, weapon-damaging and normal damage mines. That way, if the enemy sends enough ships through to survive a full minefield, the surviving ships will probably have lost engines and/or weapons...

Re: Pacifist / paralysing mines
 

I am fairly sure that mines take damage from the shields. I've had enemy ships waltz through my somewhat heavy minefields and take no internal hits whatsoever (not organic races). The ships had about 1500 shields, I thought they were taking the hits...

OK, if shields aren't active in minefields, how about armour skipping mines... muwhahahaha. I'd have to make them REAL expensive or big, or both.

Re: Pacifist / paralysing mines
 

I said before and I'll say it again, special damage mines do not work regardless of what damage you make them do. Since the ship will not be destroyed by them the mines will just keep going boom until they are no more. The reason for this is that mines go boom until there is no more mines left or no more enemy ships to go boom on. So mines that only destroy a specific part on an enemy ship will keep going boom until they are all gone even if it's just against a pitiful little escort because the pitiful little escort will never die.

Re: Pacifist / paralysing mines
 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by jimbob55:
I am fairly sure that mines take damage from the shields. I've had enemy ships waltz through my somewhat heavy minefields and take no internal hits whatsoever (not organic races). The ships had about 1500 shields, I thought they were taking the hits...

OK, if shields aren't active in minefields, how about armour skipping mines... muwhahahaha. I'd have to make them REAL expensive or big, or both.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Now that might work. It's not an 'exclusive' damage type like ionic disperser, it WILL destroy the ship -- and faster than normal mines! The way to test it, I guess, is to put just one or two mines with this warhead in a sector and run a ship with enough organic armor to take the hits through it, if it's destroyed -- or at least some internal components are damaged -- you know the armor was skipped.

This w ould be a logical tech for crystalline races. Hmm, I wonder if there's a good component picture for a 'shard warhead' in the components directory...

Re: Pacifist / paralysing mines
 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jubala:
I said before and I'll say it again, special damage mines do not work regardless of what damage you make them do. ...mines that only destroy a specific part on an enemy ship will keep going boom until they are all gone...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Yeah, but supposing you were willing to live with that limitation, would they work at all? I mean, if you mined your entire system with just a few in each sector, would you keep taking out one enemy ship's engines each time his fleet moved? So he'd either have to leave a trail of crippled ships or else stop and repair them? Sounds like a nice delaying tactic to me, and would be immune to heavily shielded "minefield busters" which take out entire regular minefields.

Re: Pacifist / paralysing mines
 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by DirectorTsaarx:
The only problem with building shield-busting mines is that shields are only on during combat. So shield-depleting mines would be useless (outside of combat).<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Are you sure about that? Somebody else posted (on another topic, fairly recently) that a great "cheat" for busting through minefields is to make a ship with enough shields to handle the bLast from a single mine. He claimed that the shields regenerated after each mine, so such a ship could take out an entire minefield.

Re: Pacifist / paralysing mines
 

OK, my idea was a warhead that did shield only damage or skipped armour. You can mount 4 warheads on a large mine, so make it 3 heavy shield killers and one regular warhead.

Or 2 regular warhead + 2 armour skipping warheads. With the damage FAQ somewhere the damage to the armour should get stored up until it either does more than 150 damage (to destroy the armour) or it just disappears..not sure.

Engine damage mines could be deployed in every sector of a system. This would wittle (sp?) down a fleet. If the armour + shield skipping mines were used at the warp point you could reduce or eliminate the minsweepers capacity to make the rest of the smaller mine fields effective....
A trail of immobilised vessels mark a path through your outer systems just waiting to be captured.....

[This message has been edited by jimbob55 (edited 06 February 2001).]

Re: Pacifist / paralysing mines
 

IMX, your shields are at full strength for each mine hit. I *believe* you also get all your OA regenerated (haven't been organic in awhile). But it is certainly true that any extra damage (damage from a single mine that does not kill a component) is lost between mine hits.

So, if you had 155 shields and a single piece of stealth armor (150 damage resistance), you can get hit by unlimited 300 damage mines (only 145 gets through, which can't kill your armor).

On the plus side, Crystalline Armor gives you no special protection against mines. Since its ability only effects the second and subsequent hits in combat, it acts as just plain 150 damage resistant armor against mines.

Re: Pacifist / paralysing mines
 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Zanthis:
IMX, your shields are at full strength for each mine hit. I *believe* you also get all your OA regenerated (haven't been organic in awhile). But it is certainly true that any extra damage (damage from a single mine that does not kill a component) is lost between mine hits.

So, if you had 155 shields and a single piece of stealth armor (150 damage resistance), you can get hit by unlimited 300 damage mines (only 145 gets through, which can't kill your armor).

On the plus side, Crystalline Armor gives you no special protection against mines. Since its ability only effects the second and subsequent hits in combat, it acts as just plain 150 damage resistant armor against mines.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

If that was true then you could sweep an entire minefield of small mines with lvl 3 warheads (600 damage each) with just 1 destroyer that is equipped with 2 lvl 5 shields (600 damage resistance). That IMX is not the case.

Re: Pacifist / paralysing mines
 

Well, I haven't hit very many large minefields, since I play against the computer. Guess I'll just have to test out minefields next http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif .

Re: Pacifist / paralysing mines
 

I found this line of modding interesting, since way early in the beta testing I put in a request to have "special" mines based on various tech tree weapons.

To wit, I just tried it. I creatd an allegance subverter warhead. Here are the data lines:

Name := Allegiance SubVersion Warhead I
Description := Warhead containing a psychically charged explosive which mentally conquers the crew of a ship (no damaged upon failure). Triggered by contact with a ship.
Pic Num := 183
Tonnage Space Taken := 5
Tonnage Structure := 5
Cost Minerals := 500
Cost Organics := 0
Cost Radioactives := 100
Vehicle Type := Mine
Supply Amount Used := 5
Restrictions := None
General Group := Weapons
Family := 2026
Roman Numeral := 1
Custom Group := 0
Number of Tech Req := 1
Tech Area Req 1 := Explosive Warheads
Tech Level Req 1 := 1
Tech Area Req 1 := Psychic Weapons
Tech Level Req 1 := 4
Number of Abilities := 0
Weapon Type := Warhead
Weapon Target := Ships
Weapon Damage At Rng := 75 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Weapon Damage Type := Crew ConVersion
Weapon Reload Rate := 0
Weapon Display Type := Torp
Weapon Display := 30
Weapon Modifier := 0
Weapon Sound := neutbomb.wav
Weapon Family := 24

Now, while I haven't tested it in battle, it at least *appears* when I have researched the appropriate tech levels. Now for the "but".

But, when I design a mine, there is NO EXPLOSIVE WARHEAD available! Only the allegance converter warhead.

Someone please tell me what I did wrong while I go sew these things around...

?

John

Re: Pacifist / paralysing mines
 

Lerchey, you need to put new warhead in their own 'Family' and 'Weapon Family' group. You are using the one for the explosive warheads and that may cause the problem.

[This message has been edited by Daynarr (edited 07 February 2001).]

Re: Pacifist / paralysing mines
 

If you click off the only latest button you will see the explosive warheads. You created the alegience subverter at the top of the tech tree for explosive warheads so its assumed to be just the latest explosive warhead.

Re: Pacifist / paralysing mines
 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Lerchey:
I found this line of modding interesting, since way early in the beta testing I put in a request to have "special" mines based on various tech tree weapons.

To wit, I just tried it. I creatd an allegance subverter warhead. Here are the data lines:<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

thats really cool. anyone know if this works? i cant try it right now, but i am anxious to know before tonight. you probably cant make a weapon that has the random event power of teleporting your ship to a random spot in the quadrant, but that would also be a cool mine ability. it would also be useful on friendly ships: "Engage the infinite probability drive!"

Re: Pacifist / paralysing mines
 

Hrm. I'd like to see "mines" that actually attach themselves as tracking devices, but the coding for that (and balancing it) would be *nasty*.

On teleportation... is the ability "Random target movement" strategic or tactical? I've never bothered with warp weapons, but they've got that ability.

------------------
-- The thing that goes bump in the night

Re: Pacifist / paralysing mines
 

I knew there had to be a good idea in there somewhere.
Thanks for creating it Lerchey, my feeble brain wasn't up to the task. If it works it would be a little too much advantage for the psychics....
We send ships, they never report back. We know there's some sort of minefield in there....we send in minesweepers and they join the enemy....hmmmm.

I believe that warp weapons random move ability only works on the tactical map (I have been known to be wrong...quite regularly in fact)

Re: Pacifist / paralysing mines
 

All,

Thanks!

I knew I was overlooking something... I just didn't know what.

I'll do a more thorough test tomorrow and will let y'all know if it works. If it does, I plan to do a bunch of more interesting mines, which I'll make available.

John

Re: Pacifist / paralysing mines
 

Ok. Well, I still did something wrong. I tested the mines today and instead of attempting to capture ships, they blew them up! And they had ONLY my Allegiance Converted Warheads on them. Back to the ol' drawing board.

John

Re: Pacifist / paralysing mines
 

I looked over your codes there but I can't see anything wrong with them, not that that's saying much considering that I only got my copy of SEIV in the Last week or so... http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

Does anyone have any idea why the Allegiance Subverter weapon has a damage rating? For instance, here is the setting for the level 1 weapon:

Weapon Damage At Rng := 50 40 30 20 10 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0

What is the point of that? Why "50 40 30 20 10" if it doesn't cause any damage? Why not just not "1 1 1 1 1"? Do these things sometimes fail if they are fired at long range? I thought that the WDAR rating was just because this weapon needed the setting set to something or it wouldn't have any range at all.

Re: Pacifist / paralysing mines
 

The allegiance subverter has a damage rating in order to "damage" the crew, and thus subvert them. Eg, at long range, it has a value of 20kt. A crew quarters component has a value of 10kt. That gives the subverter a damned good shot at "killing" the crew of a ship with only one crew quarters component. OTOH, if a ship had 4 crew quarters, the subverter would need to convert 40kt of crew with a 20kt damage weapon, which gives the ship a much better chance of surviving the attack.

But I still don't understand why my subVersion mines did actual damage to the ship. http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon9.gif

John

Re: Pacifist / paralysing mines
 

Allegence converters probably only work in combat. Mine attacks may not be considered combat in the terms of the game engine so it may not work. The "damage" is probably the only thing that is working. I don't know this for sure but that is what it sounds like is happening.

Re: Pacifist / paralysing mines
 

I'm thinking that you may just be right. I'll go ahead and get to work on some of the other, somewhat more standard mine conVersions I wanted to try. http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

Thanks!

John