Mercenaries, Morale and Munchies
 

So in the interest of exploring the concepts a bit further:

Mercs: Why do they seem SO powerful early in the game? It almost feels like cheating to amass a few armies of mercs in an SP game and go stomping through the countryside. Do experienced players limit themselves to a single merc contract at any given time to keep the challenge up?

Also, in MP, how much do these guys go for? Double the asking price?

Morale: I seem to notice I lose a lot of combats I would win with a morale reinforcing priest. Are morale boosting items as good as having a priest along? Should you always try to send a priest with a merc army?

Munchies: How bad is the starvation effect? I've had it happen for a couple of turns but it didn't seem to have a big effect on my army. Is it worse the more you exceed the supply cap?

Thanks for the enlightenment!

~Aldin

Re: Mercenaries, Morale and Munchies
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I would agree that in the beginning too many mercenaries appear... plus the computer opponents don't offer any competition during the bidding. Even worse is the AI opponents will go and hire mercenaries which have only 2 men left out of 50... and still paying full price. AI design flaw


*****

Another issue about mercenaries is that usually by day_100 players don't see mercenaries anymore. Hopefully future patches will have new mercenaries appear late in the game for long games.

Re: Mercenaries, Morale and Munchies
 

Mercenaries are powerful early because they're experienced, frequently decently equipped, sometimes very numerous (pikemen formations, notably) or otherwise extra-spiffy (amphibious, for instance). You're also normally dealing with indies early, which aren't that powerful compared to late-game armies.
Getting those troops early on, often far faster than you could recruit equivalent national or indy troops, can boost your expansion prospects considerably.

Starvation can hurt badly: all starving units have a -4 morale. If their morale wasn't all that good already (e.g. Mictlan slaves, all sorts of militia) or other negative modifiers apply (e.g. Dark Skies) they'll be VERY brittle. Too much starvation can cause the (terminal) disease affliction. Sieging a long-held Dead Ermor citadel is Not Fun; bring your own supply items or pay the price.

Priests will help not only due to Sermon of Courage but also Blessing / Divine Blessing, at least if you have sacred troops. The morale-boosting standards also only operate in a radius around the commander, while prayers have long range.

[ December 19, 2003, 22:23: Message edited by: Taqwus ]

Re: Mercenaries, Morale and Munchies
 

In multiplayer games the mercs are popular but not as much as you might think. In a solo game ANY set of mercs are useful when you can get them at only a few gold above the asking price. Im MP games it depends on the mercs. Some nations badly need a strong front-line to add to the units they start with. Others have a strong front-line and badly need support units. Some need researchers and item makers more than others. And Pangaea is so penalized (the mercs demand much more) that they are willing to bid high on the few mercs that look on them with favor.

As for starvation, you can stand it for short periods. It will lower your fighting ability but you can come out of it quickly if the next province has enough food to feed you. But if you stay too long in a starving position I believe you will get the big red hearts showing more permanent afflictions.

Re: Mercenaries, Morale and Munchies
 

Great info as always gang! Boy am I starting to get the itch to try out MP. A few follow up questions if I might:

1) So starvation is a gradual thing, that explains why a turn or two never killed me. Does starvation apply to everyone in the province or only to a random selection of those 'above the cap'?

2) Do you see a lot of 'merc stealing' in MP?

3) Anyone ever give items to mercs?

4) Are the morale boosting items the equivalent of a priest spell (i.e. horn=sermon)?

~Aldin

Re: Mercenaries, Morale and Munchies
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Yes. You can check, if you want to spend the time, to see exactly who is hungry and who isn't. You can then send the hungry troops somewhere with food, if you want to take the time, and you have the spare commanders to do so.

Quote:

... 3) Anyone ever give items to mercs?

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I have done it a few times.

Quote:

4) Are the morale boosting items the equivalent of a priest spell (i.e. horn=sermon)? ...

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I don't think so. I think they give a bonus to the morale of nearby units. Priest spells restore lost morale, I think. So, for example, an item will help units before they start getting hurt, while priest spells can be cast repeatedly for more and more effect. At least, that's been my reading.

PvK

Re: Mercenaries, Morale and Munchies
 

In MP there is quite a bit of Merc stealing. I purposfully will kill off a merc company if I don't plan on using it so it's valueless. Or if I have a feeling they are going to try to outbid part of an army romping through their territory.

There is quite a bit of strategy when dealing with mercs in MP as opposed to SP. I would hope that in the near future they make more merc companies availiable in a staggered fashion, and of course fixed some of the irritations (like auto-bidding if you have them, or maybe a reminder the turn they are looking for more cash. Autoset at the 'half' price if you already own them etc)

Re: Mercenaries, Morale and Munchies
 

Maybe its jsut me but I find the information about re-bidding on mercs to be confusing. I read it as though it meant my bid counted as 3* the amount. That I could bid 40 and have it count as 120.

Re: Mercenaries, Morale and Munchies
 

Yeah it says something like your bid counts double, but when you rebid, your bid seems to be doubled already? But does it actually take that amount from your treasury if you win? Or just half?

It would be nice if the game would prompt you to rebid, or if there was an auto-rebid feature.

olaf

Re: Mercenaries, Morale and Munchies
 

I don't use mercenaries testing races single player in the early game. This makes it easier to get a feel for a particular nation and its challenges. Using mercanaries can make races play in a very similar fashion.

Morale is huge in Dom - negative and positive. Sermon of Courage is very good and Fanatacism is even better. Armies without morale support punch well under their weight. Ulm vs C'tis early could be a nightmare for Ulm with C'tis starting with Terror - and if C'tis has chosen the PoD with high Death . . . eeeck.

Don't go out of supply for more than one turn with troops you care about. Supply is another big issue in Dom and it is a large part of why HI/summonings armies are so powerful. Nature supply items are really important for offensive armies that want to maintain momentum.

Cheers

Keir

Re: Mercenaries, Morale and Munchies
 

If I were going to give up mercenaries, and especially if I believed that somebody else wanted them, and I had the gems, I might consider giving them items that would either make them a lot less useful (e.g. a berserk-causing item for a mage, or two eyes of aiming http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif to blind them). Or one might give 'em items that'll really hurt the buyer more, like Bane Venom Charms (which *would* be removable if the owner weren't a mercenary...).

As for rebids -- the game's default bid (if you choose to bid) is your original bid, but whatever number you use will be doubled in effect. Hence, if it's a mercenary team that normally wants a minimum of 240 gold, you could get away with bidding 120 if they're currently in your service and nobody else bids more than 240.

[ December 20, 2003, 20:40: Message edited by: Taqwus ]

Re: Mercenaries, Morale and Munchies
 

I have noticed that sometimes you need to bid more than exactly half on the re-bid. Previously, I would frequently have mercs leave, but not be taken by another. I check the math and upped my bids tiny bit, to cover rounding off errors. It helped, but once in a while they would still take off. Now I just put in ten or so gold pieces more (larger for more expensive Groups) and the problem seems solved.

Anyone else face this problem?

Re: Mercenaries, Morale and Munchies
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">There's little I find more irritating than losing a rebid so I always pour a bit of extra gold in to grease the wheels. I figure a dozen gold here or there ain't gonna break the bank.

~Aldin

Re: Mercenaries, Morale and Munchies
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I never bid for mercs in SP, at least early, because it bias completely your appraisal of the race you test. But thats because SP for me is always a preparation for MP.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">really depend. If you get the shambler company and you really want to wet your feet, then yes doubling what they want can (should in MP) be done. On the other hand, if its turn 30 and you just want mercs to renforce slightly one of your army, then you will not want to pay much above the regular price.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">morale boosting items can act like a standard, that is they suppress partly the morale penalty incurred by troops which already failed there morale loss check. I would think that the spells does somehow the same thing, and dont really boost the base morale.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">each supply point that you dont have will result in a starvation icon given randomly (I think!) to a unit. Starvation give -4 morale. Next turn, if you are still undersupplied, units which are already starving and get again a starvation pick can become diseased. And then they are generally doomed (loose 1 hp a turn, cant recuperate except by battle spells). You might not notice the problem but it can be a battle looser.

Re: Mercenaries, Morale and Munchies
 

Bump!

My old observation still stands. Over multiple re-hiring, the price of a mercenary seems to go up. If I stick at the offer of about 55% of their asking price, they will eventually leave. They do not go to another nation, they go back into the pool.

Have others noticed this or, as many would suggest, am I living in my own reality?

Re: Mercenaries, Morale and Munchies
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I have not noticed this. If I ever manage to find and hire, say, the Eternal Knights, I do my best to keep them forever or kill them off. And they always ask for 50 during rebidding time.

Since the original posters mentioned this, I would also like to add that it would be wonderful if computer-AI nations would either bid more competitively on mercs or that mercs would be less frequent and/or numerous in the early game. And they will actually ruin themselves by spending insane amounts of money on, say, Guiseppe IV who normally commands 100 men but now commands only 2 because I killed them all.

And one (tiny) bug (?): I purchased Guiseppe at some point in a SP and when I wanted to change some gems around, noticed that he had "-1" fire gems. How can he have negative gems?

Re: Mercenaries, Morale and Munchies
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Yep. Another thing that would help 'fix' mercenaries would be if they recruited when their strength was down. Possibly not while actively hired, but ... What mercenary captain, out of work and out of men, isn't going to recruit?

In MP, I've noticed there'll sometimes be 4 or 5 mercenary companies open for employment. Sadly, they're all combat companies, and they've been used and discarded, sometimes with no men, sometimes with 1 or 2 out of a full complement of 20-60. And still asking very near full price. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif