Jotunheim
 

Hi All,

Had a quick glance at all the topics but could not spot any on Jotunheim. Would just like to start a thread to discuss issues with those interested in developing this race. I kinda like them hence the nick and all http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

So... first question to start the thread off.

Q: Can someone give me a good suggestion as to what to do with the hero that sits on a wolf? He's such a useless dude I haven't even bothered to remember his name.. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/confused.gif I mean he can lead a decent number of troops into battle... but dats about it. Sneak troops? Maybe... BUt any other suggestions out there?

Re: Jotunheim
 

I turned Sporsnjall into an assassin with the Black Heart. His high speed and defence eventually made him the most succesful "problem solver" I ever found in the game. It was well worth putting some higher tier items on this unit and even let him empower once in earth to allow him to cast Steelskin.

My turn. Anyone know of a good way to use the Jotun scouts? Being large burly sacred sneaking troops and all but they seem to go down pretty fast in pitched battle.

Re: Jotunheim
 

In both cases (wolf rider and scout) they work better than most nations scouts as being able to take advantage of an opporunity. NO, they dont work well against independents. But if you discover an AI then you might watch for unprotected provinces inside his domain and attack those.

You dont have to keep them. Crank the taxes to max and move on. You get gold, maybe drive the unrest too high fo him to use for gold/units even if he does get it back. Or put some defense into the place and see if you can hold it. 6 points on Jotun defence is worth twice that of any other nation.

Just those units can start a real nice hit-n-run conflict with some nation that doesnt even have a clue yet where you are to hit you back. Of course this works better with AI's than in multiplay since they WILL find you and they will start using defenses more. But pros and cons exist. In multi you seem to find back provinces undefended more often than against AI's. You just have to make use of it quicker since human players tend to learn faster http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ December 30, 2003, 14:04: Message edited by: Gandalf Parker ]

Re: Jotunheim
 

Great feedback... keep it comin'

Jotun actually has a good number of sacred troops under the Niefelhiem theme. Massing 9N for the beserker and regen on bless works well with Jotun sacreds. But man... Jotun troops are damn expensive to recruit. I've tried building an army which consisted of 80% leaders and a handful of Niefel Giants and have the Godes bless everybody. Worked pretty well except when trying to attack a province, I had to click like 20 times to get everyone to attack http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif . Bummer..

Re: Jotunheim
 

Niefelson: You can use ctrl and shift keys to group leaders together in Dom2 (the biggest improvement in addition to pooled research, imo). The Groups created stay over turns and can be activated by clicking on any of the members.

Re: Jotunheim
 

Spornsjall has a standard, which can be useful, especially early on.

Niefel Jarls are real killing machines with just quickness & breath of winter & wraith sword. Adding other stuff like ring of regen, that amulet that gives luck, etc. makes them even better. Works like a charm, at least until someone paralyzes them. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

Re: Jotunheim
 

You are right on focusing on the strong, bless-effect troops. If you crank out enough Herses early in the game many will get into the Hall of Fame and become quite legendary over time. At first I was using Water 9 for the defense and quickness, but now I think a Great Mother with Earth 4 Nature 9 really maximizes the units' strengths. Those giants have the hitpoints to get their money's worth from regeneration (especially if they're getting hacked up while berserk:) and reinvigoration can allow you to get away with Black Steel armor on the commanders (good thing it's one-size-fits-all..) If you can afford it, Earth 9 Nature 9 would be even better and might make those Woodsmen useful for a change. NJ's work great as a prophet - that mass-bless spell is indispensable when you're hauling around umpteen Niefel Giants and Herses. And if you're in a strong dominion he can be a great fighter (with Holy Avenger to boot).

I always get stuck though with Jotun magic - never know what to aim for, and the mages are so expensive (and poor searchers) that I end up falling behind. Should I focus on Blood, or what? And has anyone successfully pulled off an Illwinter? I'm curious to know do the Rimtursar actually ever arrive, or is it just there for the cold and unrest?

Re: Jotunheim
 

And another thing - if you can get them, Boots of the Behemoth are fantastic for your heroes!

Re: Jotunheim
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">That's true. But only for Jotunheim. I used to put BoB on Werewolves (size 3), and recently I played Pangaea to try out their War Minotaurs...

...and I think both are nearly worthless!! Trample on size 3 units is just no good. That's 6 ap damage (strength not added), and a size 3 trampler seems to only trample 1 square per turn, but gets a lot of fatigue for it.

Size 4 (like Jotuns), though, is much, much better... 8 ap damage on twice as many units.

Re: Jotunheim
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">What I like to do is focus on construction, all the way to level 4. This gets me several great toys for Jotunheim. First, Skull Mentors. I prefer the Iron Woods theme to Neifelheim, and once I can forge Skull Mentors, the cheap Vaetti Hags suddenly become research powerhouses. In fact, I often take drain with Jotun. Once you have the Mentors, you don't notice the research hit, and Jotun doesn't rely on battlefield magic for initial expansion. Second - Wraith Swords. The power of these in the hands of a giant is obvious. Now forging both these things requires death gems, so I horde them until I can spend them on the goodies above.

Next on the program for me is conjuration 2, for Dark Knowledge. I want more death gems so I can make still more mentors, and more swords, and Dark Knowledge is the fastest way to find death sites.

After that... well after that, what I go for will depend alot on the situation. Often more conjuration, to be able to spend nature gems on something like Pride of Lions. Sometimes Blood, if I feel like I have time on my side. I am usually aiming for Ice Devils, and those are a serious investment.

As a tactical tip, try using Herses almost as you would use cavalry - I've had good success with putting 2 - 3 of them way to the side with orders to hold a turn, attack rearmost. They do tend to get into the Hall of Fame, and the one who gets the most interesting HoF bonus gets that 1st Wraith Sword http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Jotunheim
 

[quote]Originally posted by Truper:

Quote:

As a tactical tip, try using Herses almost as you would use cavalry - I've had good success with putting 2 - 3 of them way to the side with orders to hold a turn, attack rearmost. They do tend to get into the Hall of Fame, and the one who gets the most interesting HoF bonus gets that 1st Wraith Sword http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Heh Heh... I wonder if they could design the game so that we have an interface where we can have a Executive Meeting with all the leaders before they go to war so that we can "incentify" them with Wraith Swords!!! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Re: Jotunheim
 

I think the scout is cheaper, stealthy but has worse equipment than Herse. BUT scouts have better stats than Herses... So, if you are putting equipment and remember to not sneak with them, they are better. I'm not sure about the stats part, but I recall something like that when I tried to find a use for them...

Re: Jotunheim
 

For Niefel I have used Earth Mother nature9 earth9.

Do a search for "Niefel" or "Niefelheim" for some discussion on this - can't remember the name of the thread.

You can get some very impressive results using Niefel Giants and Herses as your blessed monstrosities but there is not much you can do facing paralysis so you need to develop another string to your bow for figthing astral races. Undead perhaps? I haven't tried the race since the full game came out.

Cheers

Keir

Re: Jotunheim
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I was curious about the Illwinter spell too, so I finally tried it. I've had it up for about a dozen turns, and no sign of any Rimtursar. I guess the benefit is the cold - but I don't know if the effect is woth the effort...

Re: Jotunheim
 

I wonder if we search our homeland, will we find more gems of other types? I tried searching a couple of times with other types of mages, but have always come up with nothing.

Re: Jotunheim
 

It is my understanding that the home province is already completely searched in regards to magic sites, even though it does not appear so in the searched by a level X mage icons. I imagine it's to balance the nations.

Re: Jotunheim
 

In the maps that come with the game, there are no hidden sites in the starting provinces. The fact they aren't marked as searched, however, is deliberate as maps CAN be made with the potential for hidden sites in those provinces.