Thoughts on magic and adjusting the research cost
 

I have come ot a somewhat odd conclusion regarding Dom2 given Dom1 - I want to give playing with easy research a go.

In dom1 I wished for more expensive research as I found the transition ot powerful magic to fast. In Dom2 I'm finding strong mundane approaches overpowered - good HI, Centaur Warriors, Serpent Dancers etc.

So what I'm wondering is wether or not easy research will see magic come back into the game more.

I am still making good use of magic but I'm using a narrow range of spells in any given game and relying heavily on nations starting spells - terror and panic being beauties combined with eagle eyes. I'm not fielding many summons at all, except with death, and haven't made any use of magic higher than level 6.

So 25% off magic research (I think) plus I'll probably crank the sites percentage I play with up from 60 to 65 and hopefully I'll get some more summons and high level spells.

Cheers

Keir

ps. I play on smallish maps (MM issues) and this is a big part of why magic isn't a big presence.

Re: Thoughts on magic and adjusting the research cost
 

Play on larger maps, or longer games with more/better opponents, and higher indy settings.

If your games are so short that you aren't seeing the benefit of magics, then your games are too short.

Re: Thoughts on magic and adjusting the research cost
 

Grab the Poke-in-the-eye map. It makes for longer games. But be real careful attacking independent provinces >:-)
http://www.techno-mage.com/~dominion/Dominions2/

Re: Thoughts on magic and adjusting the research cost
 

With small maps set research to easy and magic sites to 75 http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif , then give your researchers all the items to speed research as you build up and conquer 3/4 of the map. At this point just kick back and play defense but don't get sloppy, the ai can make some nasty comebacks, and go in for the kill when your a Phd in whatever magic you've chosen. Don't worry, it's not cheating, the ai will usually have the "Mother of all Armies" waiting for you at the Capital http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif .It is especially rewarding to get Conjuration 9 or Construction 9 summons...Oh Yeah! Love this game! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Re: Thoughts on magic and adjusting the research cost
 

Newbie question: What is a "small map" versus a "large map"? What number of provinces?

Darryl

Re: Thoughts on magic and adjusting the research cost
 

Urgaia = small.
World War = large.

Keep in mind that the number of opponents has a large effect also.

For a tough game take all 17 nations, imp AI, on the map World War, with indy's set to 7.

Re: Thoughts on magic and adjusting the research cost
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I generally play on Desert Eye with 8-12 Impossible AI's (8 for Mictlan, 12 for C'tis), Indies 5.

Higher indies impacts too heavily on the ai's. Large maps/longer games mean vastly greater MM. I'm not as young as I used to be and I just don't play the monster games anymore. I remember me first few PBEM games - and then I learnt just how big a pain a big empire is on a big map in a long game. Sure some people love it but not me.

I like to be able to get a clean finish and I find setting victory of a dom of around 656, on the Desert Eye map, gives a nice finsih and avoids unnecassary cleanup.

By the end of the game I generally have powerful summons armies assembling and they may see a little action but in truth its the mundane troops who win the game for me. Death is the exception where I get to use alot more magic. Is death a fast magic path?

The best spell I have used so far is Mass Protection which allows strong mundane to troops to transition into the mid to late game as still being very powerful in numbers.

Anyway turns out that easy research is way cheaper than 25% and I'm actually finding it a bit much. Maybe its time to create a set starting positions map which sets the magic levels at 3 in all schools at the start and research to difficult?

The possilities are many.

Truth is I miss alot of the powerful magic from dom1. As I play a fast paced games late game magic abuse wasn't a big issue - although mid game Seasonal spirits where a bit much. Still doubling their cost seems a bit harsh. Blood was nicely balenced in this style of Dom1 game though grossly overpowered in longer games. I don't miss Air elementals but I'm suprised they made other elementals so much weaker as they weren't great in dom1 - they were ok.

Still I much prefer the overall play of dom2 so I don't want to sound like a kill joy. I'm just suffering from magic withdrawel symptoms.

cheers

Keir

Re: Thoughts on magic and adjusting the research cost
 

>I like to be able to get a clean finish and I find setting victory of a dom of around 656

That pretty much sums up why you are having fast games.

I suspect that most players opt for the standard victory scenario that requires them to play out the game.

I understand why you are choosing to go this way, but you really aren't going to get a strong game from the computer AI if playing for dominion.

Re: Thoughts on magic and adjusting the research cost
 

In my tests for viability it is standard victory with 6 Indeps, I find this is strong (or weak depending on how the AI is made) for Impossible AI's to hyperexpand and prove the hardest challenge for me. I usually play 1 under the maximum recommended of AI's for a map as it gives a little room but not very much so you will have fairly quick conflict or at least territory. I also avoid using cheeze diplomacy, as it negates some of the effects.

Re: Thoughts on magic and adjusting the research cost
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Err - why not? What have I missed?

I find the computers are capable of hitting the victory target before I do if I don't go to war with them and when I get there (they almost always have stronger dom than me for most of the game what with all their temple building) the game is over bar the mopping up. My forces generally vastly outgun the ai's by this stage and my magic is really kicking in. Also I find the more options available the weaker opponents the computers become and as the game goes on the amount of options are staggering.

Cheers

Keir

Re: Thoughts on magic and adjusting the research cost
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Good thought - how do the ai's go on this map Gandalf?

Cheers

Keir

Re: Thoughts on magic and adjusting the research cost
 

>Err - why not? What have I missed?

The computer doesn't understand "playing for dominion", it simple plays. It's equally poor with the vicory point condition. It builds and attacks the same way no matter what the goal of the game is. Since it doesn't account for victory loctations or dominion issues, it is easily defeated in such situations.

The AI is already weak in many ways. Adding in a victory condition that it doesn't understand just adds insult to injury.

Re: Thoughts on magic and adjusting the research cost
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I will crank the indies up one. The computer seems to expand well on 5 but if it still expands well on 6 then I'll go there.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Not sure what you are refering to. The main way I handle diplomacy in dominions is to show strength and leave my enighbours avenues for expansion - or not if I want war. High border defences and visible armies tell the enemy you are prepared for war and thus a bad target. This seems fair enough.

Is there another form of diplomatic manipulation I'm unaware of?

Do you consider the approach mentioned above cheesy? I'm happy with it though its a basic diplomatic model.

Its funny I'm happy to set the game up so I am disadvantaged, take a dodgy race or whatever but once I'm playing the focus comes in and I play as optimal as I can. Some people are happy to play without trying to maximise results and find it easy to handicap themselves during the game to get a better game. While I'm prepared to do this diplomatically playing PBEM, as diplomacy can ruin games if to effective, other than that I'm locked into the focus and there is not contemplation of that which does not serve the plan. I get drawn into the logic of the situation and any attempt to play in a sub-optimal fashion will destroy the focus and suddenly I'm surrounded by custard. Sure its ok to lose track of a few details as long as its clear in my head what the fundamentals are. Once I lose track of this I find everything becomes so much harder.

"Concentrate Luke, use the force" http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Anyway I'm off for some therapy with Utgard Jotun and my new approach to Jotun as a bless effects race. *rubs hands with glee* Muhahahahaha

cheers

Keir