patch 2.06 out
 

In case you haven't visited the shrapnel front page, the patch 2.06 is out. Make sure all players participating in MP's update the same turn or the host will crash.

Re: patch 2.06 out
 

Thanks for the tip. My only bookmark is this forum so I would propably have been clueless until the Posts started mentioning the patch. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Re: patch 2.06 out
 

thanks a lot!!!

copy of the readme :

New Features / Game Balance Changes:

Modding possible for monsters, nations and scales.
New theme for Marignon, Conquerors of the Sea.
New theme for Ulm, Black Forest.
Master password.
Two new gods, Divine Glyph and Carrion Dragon.
(Mis)fortune affects event frequency with 5% per step.
Order/Turmoil affects event frequency with 5% per step.
New Divine Titles.
New magic sites.
Pressing 'I' on unit info shows monster/weapon/armor numbers.
Fires of the Faith is more powerful against enemy dominions.
Num Pad can be used to enter numbers too.
Symbol for recuperation.
Map screen speedup.
Three new independent sea provinces.
Bonus resources for the difficult AIs now depends on the game richness setting.
Master Alchemist -> 50 DP
Black Bone -> pirate captain
Improved cheat detection
Pangaea has different start units.
New environment variables for maps and mods directories (DOM2_MAPS & DOM2_MODS).
Can now hold 5 times as many maps.
Added one more resolution setting.
New Sauromancer for desert tombs nature-> fire
Warning before deleting server game.
Fatal error Messages are sent to stderr.
Queen of the Lake can no longer summon allies.



Bug Fixes:

Bug left the highest resolutions permanently greyed out.
Crystal Heart never expired.
It was possible to appoint the god as prophet.
Some afflictions couldn't heal when recalling god.
Fires from Afar affected too many targets.
-p works properly now.
Send Horror works properly now.
Fire susceptibility wasn't displayed correctly.
Fixed temp file error with long (>500) temp dir path.
One Comander of Ulm, strat move 1 -> 2.
Error message if old Dominions I file is present in maps folder.
When casting wish you didn't see what you typed.
Niefelheim could recruit Gygjas in underwater forts.
Fixed minor network memory leak.
Serpent King snake form was sacred.
Knight of avalon, hoof -> alicorn.
Arch Censor doesn't eat any longer.
Twin spear has serpent kryss stats, fixed.
No more random hill forts in the sea.
No longer possible to drown mercs by recruiting then in underwater provinces.
Incorrect stealth value was displayed sometimes.
Couldn't be immune to bog beast poison.
Arcane Domination is now an alteration spell.
Carrion Reanimation didn't work correctly.
Raven Feast didn't bring any death gems.
Some humanbreds had wrong equipment and movement rate.
It was possible to bid a negative amount of money on mercs, fixed.
Revenant no longer eats.
Sharks had too many item slots.
Dancing Trident resulted in attack skill reduction.
Naga had wrong path cost.
Fixed an error when changing victory condition.
Fixed potential memory screw up.
Some popups were wrong when under siege.
Routed unit has -4 def after combat, fixed.
Black Sorcerer doesn't change back if hit by global, fixed.
New Era Pan had wrong weapon.
Many typos corrected

Re: patch 2.06 out
 

does the AI logic has been improved in some ways? (thinking mostly of more castles and less light units)

Re: patch 2.06 out
 

That means that Order 1 -5% Events, Turmoil 1 +5 Events.

And Fortune, Misfortune affect +5% per scale.

So now if you take Order 3, Misfortune 3, you will even out to the standard.

While if you take Turmoil 3, Fortune 3, you will have 30% Increase in events, with 80% of the time them being good.

Whether or not this 'balances' out Order/Turmoil we'll have to see. I didn't see anything about changing the weight of the events, but I actually haven't seen a bad event with Order/Misfortune 3 yet with Black Forest, but that may be because of the fortune tellers.

Re: patch 2.06 out
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">No, but the resource boost on high difficulty should result in a greater proportion heavily armored and hometown units when those difficulties are used.

[ January 12, 2004, 13:53: Message edited by: johan osterman ]

Re: patch 2.06 out
 

ok, I hope that I will get an excruciatingly (sp?) painful and slow death from the hands of impossible AI in the game I just launched http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: patch 2.06 out
 

Damn. Now I'll get nothing done all week. ;-(

Re: patch 2.06 out
 

Are the demos in the Shrapnel's site 2.02 or 2.06? Will they be updated? If yes, when are Version 2.06 demos coming out?

Re: patch 2.06 out
 

Questions now that I have looked at the patch:

#1 Ulm [Black Forest] produces death gems and has an undead troop. Yet has no death mage. Only one mage with blood-1 (undead leadership-5). I get the feeling there is supposed to be a death mage, otherwise how are we supposed to use the death gems or lead the ghoul troops? Am I missing something?

#2 In the MOD tools - Is there a way to allow units to create/summon allies? Or produce gems?

#3 In the MOD tools - Is there a way to add/remove the "allies in combat" ability? Lets say for example (heh...) I wanted to take the free imps away from the Moloch.

#4 In the MOD tools - I see how I can edit a nation. What if I wanted to leave the nation, but add a theme? Can we make or even edit themes?

#5 In the MOD tools - If I wanted to do work on pretender units, how would I designate the costs of magic paths (such as: Fire:3 Air:2 costs 30 to start a new path).

Re: patch 2.06 out
 

Oh yeah..

#6 In the MOD tools - I see a command to clear national heros, but how do I add in/designate new ones?

Re: patch 2.06 out
 

1. They start with a blood/death spell to summon a vampire count. Otherwise use the blood mages, you can go quite far with 5 ghoul guardians.

2. If it's not in the modding manual then those abilities have been forgotten. Next patch!

3. Use the #clear command and then add the abilities you want him to retain.

4. No

5. That's for the next patch.

6. Not possible yet

Re: patch 2.06 out
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">The Sanguine Heritage spell has no description available when you look under the casting information.

Re: patch 2.06 out
 

Thanks for the fast reply.

>1. They start with a blood/death spell to summon a vampire count.


The Vamp Count requires Blood-3 and Death-3 plus 44 slaves. That's a pretty steep cost for a nation that has Blood-1 and Death-0. Basically you must cultivate your pretender as a blood/death mage to use this aspect of the theme. You probably should have given players some clue about this in the description. I'd never have figured it out myself.

There is still no real way to use the death gems. Until you get a random pick in death or use the pretender.

I'm not too keen on giving nations abilities, but not the mages to use them.


>Otherwise use the blood mages, you can go quite far with 5 ghoul guardians.


Not if I have to hire a mage to lead every 5 of them. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif


>3. Use the #clear command and then add the abilities you want him to retain.

Except we have no commands to add those types of abilities back in...


>4. No

No ability to affect/create themes?

That's a MODing disaster as the themes are a large portion of the game.

In fact this forces me to muck with the nations main theme, which is something I really wanted to avoid.

I do not want to be forced to remove a main nation just to add in a mod. This defeats the whole point of modding, which is to ADD to a game.


[gigantic sigh] Until mods don't subtract main themes, and until the battle replay speed is fixed, I'm going to stay out of Modding. This isn't some sort of threat. It's just too frustrating to have almost what you need, but not quite enough. When the MOD tools are up to spec, I'll do a massive and fun MOD. Until then I'm watching from the sidelines.

[ January 12, 2004, 15:34: Message edited by: apoger ]

Re: patch 2.06 out
 

Since I didn't see it mentioned in Pocus's post...

Any word on the renaming (or tagging) of commanders? I thought that the devs were looking into this a while back.

Re: patch 2.06 out
 

lets keep things positive. I too am a bit disappointed by the unability to add themes, but I think it would be rather harsh to greet a patch from our prefered devs with only frowned faces.

So despite the fact that the patch is not the bringer of all that we waited for, congrats!! I'm sure that a new one will be out before March http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: patch 2.06 out
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">If the national heroes are specific to nation you are swapping out then possibly the mod file can alter the old ones to what you wanted? Kludgy but might work.

Re: patch 2.06 out
 

>lets keep things positive.

I'll be the first one standing up and applauding when it's done right.

Until then I'll call it like I see it.

Re: patch 2.06 out
 

>If the national heroes are specific to nation you are swapping out then possibly the mod file can alter the old ones to what you wanted? Kludgy but might work.


Yeah, but this change will propagate down to the nations other themes, which may not be appropriate.

This is why I'm out until I can work with the themes rather than cutting into the main nation.

Re: patch 2.06 out
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">If the national heroes are specific to nation you are swapping out then possibly the mod file can alter the old ones to what you wanted? Kludgy but might work. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Isn't it so that we can only create new units, but not modify old ones?

[ January 12, 2004, 15:55: Message edited by: Teraswaerto ]

Re: patch 2.06 out
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">It is very easy to enable/disable a mod. So you won't remove anything from the game by making a modified pythium. Just enable that mod when you want that variety of pythium. And I believe the point of modding is to modify the game.

Re: patch 2.06 out
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">To remove then the #clear would work though its the long way around.

To add.....
The old unused units that has summons are still in there. Maybe using somethng like the number for the old Lord of Night. You should be able to change him without affecting the new one.

edit: Wait, new thought. it might take editing the unit he summons. That would affect all Fiends of Darkness in the game. Is there an old unit which summons a unit which is also an old unit? Not sure if Im explaining that correctly. Might have to look for myself.... I wish there was a way to see unit number in use. There are a bunch of wolves but its a pain to figure out which unit number is actually the one being summoned.

Edit Again: THEY DID. Kewl. Bring up the unit and hit Shft-I

Re: patch 2.06 out
 

It isn't listed among the changes but there is also a new lvl 3 priests spell: smite demon.

Re: patch 2.06 out
 

>So you won't remove anything from the game by making a modified pythium. Just enable that mod when you want that variety of pythium.


A bunch of players get together and want to play. They decide to use the "apoger" mod.
This mod offers an alternate theme for every nation.
No player will then have access to ANY standard nation since they have all be replaced by my mod.


What I want, and I don't think this is out of line is;


A bunch of players get together and want to play.
They decide to use the "apoger" mod.
This mod offers an alternate theme for every nation.
The players that choose to utilize one of my new themes simply takes it from the theme menu when making their nation.
Players that don't want to use one of the extra themes just ignore it and play what they want.


This is a HUGE difference.

Re: patch 2.06 out
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I dont't see it in the priest spell list.

Re: patch 2.06 out
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I dont't see it in the priest spell list. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I saw it there just an hour ago, if by priest spell list you mean the spells selectable as a battle spell order. It is after the others in the list.

[ January 12, 2004, 16:52: Message edited by: johan osterman ]

Re: patch 2.06 out
 

Are the scale effects now modable? Because I am in a long hard solo game with order 3 misfortune 3 and I will probably get slammed to heck if I use the patch in that game.

On the other hand I'm also in a MP game that will probably require me to patch.

Re: patch 2.06 out
 

>Originally posted by apoger:
>You probably should have given players some clue about this in the description. I'd never have figured it out myself.

Rrright you are!

>There is still no real way to use the death gems. Until you get a random pick in death or use the pretender.

>I'm not too keen on giving nations abilities, but not the mages to use them.

My intention was not to give them abilities but to give them death gems. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

>>Otherwise use the blood mages, you can go quite far with 5 ghoul guardians.

>Not if I have to hire a mage to lead every 5 of them. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

Vs independents they are awesome even if led by a powerful mage http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: patch 2.06 out
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Just make several APOGER MODs. A general one for scales and one for each nation to mod. The secrecy is lost, but you can at least choose which nations to mod.

Re: patch 2.06 out
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Scales are moddable so if you want to keep the scale effects of 2.02 in MP games you must make a '2.02-scale-mod'. Not sure if mods can be activated in games that have already begun though.

Re: patch 2.06 out
 

Is there a way to enforce scales in a mod similar to a theme? Like make it mandatory to have +3 scale magic to with the modded nation?

Is the ability to edit or create new magic sites planned to be included?

[ January 13, 2004, 15:30: Message edited by: Teraswaerto ]

Re: patch 2.06 out
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I dont't see it in the priest spell list. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I saw it there just an hour ago, if by priest spell list you mean the spells selectable as a battle spell order. It is after the others in the list. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Apparently it's only available in games created with 2.06.

Re: patch 2.06 out
 

Kristoffer,

Thanks for the prompt response.

If I patch, will a game begun in 2.02 keep the scales of 2.02, which is what I think most folks would like, or will it "update" the scales automatically with no way to reverse the update, which is what I understand your comments to indicate is what will happen?

Thanks.

Re: patch 2.06 out
 

Concerning Smite Demon,

It says "Magic Resistance Negates". Is there any penetration bonus? With the normal penetration of 11, smiting a mere imp (MR=13) would only work 37% of the time, and a devil (MR=17) would be 14%... and this from expensive level 3 priests! I would think a penetration of 15 would be minimal, and 16 or 17 about right, considering that demons tend to have very high magic resistance...

[ January 12, 2004, 17:23: Message edited by: Saber Cherry ]

Re: patch 2.06 out
 

Turning Ulm into a stealthy, undead nations...

Somebody must have a sick sense of humour http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif ...

Re: patch 2.06 out
 

>Just make several APOGER MODs. A general one for scales and one for each nation to mod. The secrecy is lost, but you can at least choose which nations to mod.


C'mon, when Illwinter makes a new theme it does not replace the main theme, it's simply an option that's selectable. Why make mods ridiculously clunky when you already have a method of adding in content?

Until we have the ability to add/edit/remove any theme, the mod tools are nothing more than a kludge (IMHO).

Re: patch 2.06 out
 

A couple bugs...

Marignon:

1) Missionaries can go over seas without taking units, but are not stealthy! I think they're supposed to be stealthy, because otherwise they are worse than priests (cost 60).

2) Marignon's ocean theme starts with a Friar commander, which is unavailable - should be a captain.

3) "Chartmaker" spelled "Cartmaker" in description.

4) Not a bug, but... they no longer have a cheap commander unit! Cheapest commander has cost 75, more expensive even than Abysia, Rlyeh, and Jotunheim. (P.S. I suggest a "Retired Sea Dog" - his sailing days are over but his pension is too small, so he comes out of retirement to use his commanding presence, though he stays on land only. Starts with 2 random afflictions, usually "lost an eye" and "limp").

Ulm:

1) Commander is shown with a sword & shield, but equipped with a pike and shield (3 hands).

2) Master Alchemist cannot do alchemy without magic picks. Seems a bit odd... =) (P.S. At 50 points, I'd expect him to start with 1 magic level, like the 55 point human mages. Fire or earth would be thematic for an alchemist.)

-Cherry

[ January 12, 2004, 18:01: Message edited by: Saber Cherry ]

Re: patch 2.06 out
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Penetration on the level you suggest with the spells 15 armor negating damage and 100 precision would be a bit much, I think. As it is it is worse than dom1 banishment used to be againt imps but better than banishment against small numbers of powerful demons.

Re: patch 2.06 out
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Because our way of adding it is WAY more clunky than the stuff you have. Adding a new theme requires me to make sprites and add them in one file, statistics in one file, magic in another, the units for the theme in one place, colours in another place, etc.

You have everything in one text file. Therefore the current solution. It might very well be changed without too much difficulties.

Neither of us at Illwinter have ever played modded games, so we're quite new to the concept. This is the first try. I like it, but it can be improved.

Re: patch 2.06 out
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Yes, the scales will be "updated".

Re: patch 2.06 out
 

Thanks to Illwinter for recuperation!

Now I love my White Bull even more http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Re: patch 2.06 out
 

Thanks, Kristoffer. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: patch 2.06 out
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">So maybe each mod, individually, shouldn't make too big changes - maybe you need an apoger-Abysia mod, and an apoger-Ulm, etc, plus maybe apoger-basic. Make each individual mod be activable separately from each other, and each player can choose whether he wants his own mod or not for the special theme.

I agree that it would be better to ALSO have the ability to add themes, but I believe the current setup will still let you do things. And will encourage modularity, which is a good thing. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: patch 2.06 out
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Penetration on the level you suggest with the spells 15 armor negating damage and 100 precision would be a bit much, I think. As it is it is worse than dom1 banishment used to be againt imps but better than banishment against small numbers of powerful demons. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I agree with Johan. If (even level-3) priests had a very effective anti-demon spell, it'd be overly hard on demons, which already take a lot to get. Seems to me it's good if demons remain hard to get rid of - seems "thematic" for demons http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif and good for balance.

PvK

Re: patch 2.06 out
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">From IW's earlier comments on what'd be in the first patch, I only expected a kludge for the new mod tools. It's their first step into moddability. Good to point out what else we'd like and expect, and I agree with your points in that way. I just wouldn't expect more for the first mod patch, and don't think we should give them a hard time about it.

PvK

Re: patch 2.06 out
 

Just my humble opinion but I consider themes to be internal to the game. I dont especially like the idea of Users crossing that line. For purposes of quality assurance I would rather that themes stay in the area of Illwinter, and Mods be user territory (not saying Illwinter cant do a few).
If things can be done to make mods more capable toward theme abilitys thats ok but I like having them easily recognizeable as seperate things.

Re: patch 2.06 out
 

>Neither of us at Illwinter have ever played modded games, so we're quite new to the concept. This is the first try. I like it, but it can be improved.

I can accept that.

Kudos on a first try, and here's hoping that there will be improvements.

I'll just have to wait for those improvements before messing with the nations, which I was looking forward to doing. In the meantime I'll see if I can do a general mod involving the universal modifiers.

Re: patch 2.06 out
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Why not mess with nations. I can't imagine that it will be difficult to change a nation mod into a theme mod when it becomes available.

Re: patch 2.06 out
 

I'm curious, if everybody can chose his own mod to use in a multiplayer game, what should stop me to create some uber kickass nation?

Or did I get this wrong?

Re: patch 2.06 out
 

Prinz,

I think in MP all players must agree on the mod or you will end up with default theme sent from the hosted computer.

I think very few mods will end up being used in MP by folks who want to have a real chance at winning because they will have to have passed a rough balance test.