Enemy movement (turn-based)
 

Anyone else wish you could see where the fsck your enemies ships went? I can't tell you the number of times I've see an enemy fleet three spaces into a system, I click end turn and they are gone. I have no idea by which WP they left, or if he self-destructed the entire fleet.

Hey MM, any hope of getting movement lines for ships whose movement you observed? Especially important against humans with ducking in and out of WPs. You almost have to use mines at WPs just so you know when someone peeks at your system.

Re: Enemy movement (turn-based)
 

Yeah, a sensor log kind of thing that reports in the turn log that ship this and that from empire yonder sailed through system hither. Would you like to see the sensor data?

Yes takes you to the system and replays what happened. No and nothing happens.

Re: Enemy movement (turn-based)
 

Yes, yes, a thousand times yes. I was going to post something on this as well. In most other games like this you can see the enemy ship movements when they are within your sensor range. I had a dozen Phong ships pop into one of my systems and threaten my planets there. As I was hustling to intercept with a fleet 2 systems away, bam, they just vanished. I still don't know where they went.

I sure hope they add this as an option even if it does slow the enemy turns down. Worth it.

Re: Enemy movement (turn-based)
 

Sorry but I disagree.
If you could trace the movement of the enemy ships, there would be no more (useful)possibility to hide in a storm! I like it much better with this uncertainty.

Re: Enemy movement (turn-based)
 

My thoughts exactly Q.

Re: Enemy movement (turn-based)
 

Logically, you can't hide in a storm if somebody is watching when you enter it. You could make a hard-coded change that combat in a storm is not possible because ships inside can't see each other to fight, but if you have something that can see a ship enter you are going to know it is in there.

Re: Enemy movement (turn-based)
 

Then they should perhaps make the storms larger than one hex in size.

Logically, are you are telling me that if a massive fleet of ships enters your home system intending no good, you (with high technology at your disposal) are just going to lose track of where they all are within spitting distance of your homeworld? I don't think so. Maybe you see them enter a large storm and lose track of where they are in there, sure, I'll buy that. If the storm was, say, 6 hexes in size, then you could go poking around in there trying to locate them. Maybe they could evade you.

Now, perhaps this is one of those things people are used to from playing SE3, I don't know. As a newcomer to SE, I'm just having a little trouble with it.

Re: Enemy movement (turn-based)
 

Think of it as "The fog of war".

Re: Enemy movement (turn-based)
 

Actually, you know, after thinking about it some more, if I was just able to get an additonal log message somethng like "Phong fleet of 12 ships exited system via Jinook warp point", then I could easily live with it as it is. I like fog of war but with cloaked ships, storms, etcetera entering into it as well, it sure makes a mess for tracking enemy movements without at least some point of reference entering and leaving a system.

In fact, I think adding a new cloaked "sensor base" that you could build on warp points that would give you the above log message would be pretty cool and add something to the game. Maybe MM envisions the drones doing something functionally similar eventually in scouting out enemy positions, I don't know. As any good general knows, without good, fairly recent intelligence on the positions of enemy forces, you're dead meat. And I worry about these things. http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Enemy movement (turn-based)
 

I kinda like the larger storms idea. Log Messages would work for me. Especially log anything wierd, like "Phong fleet of 12 ships self-destructed in Yoshi system". Would be annoying to have a fleet disappear and get no log message. I'd be thinking, "I thought he didn't have cloaking?"

BTW, anyone else wish you could tell your ships to "block" your so-called "allies"? I had a ship on a WP and a Trade Alliance with the Phong and he slipped a Colony ship past me and grab a world. Pissed me off. I don't want to fight him, just not let him past. And don't suggest diplomacy, I'd already had him agree to forgo his claim on the system, but since the ship was already enroute, it ignored the agreement. *grrr*

Re: Enemy movement (turn-based)
 

I agree you should have some info as to where the other side went. "Igo-ugo" is an abstraction but in "real life" you would know where they were when they dropped off your radar. That was the gist of my comment - that if you saw them enter a storm & didn't see them come out, you would know they're in there (asuming they didn't cloak & come then out or something like that). So, the only way you could "hide in a storm" to the extent nobody knows you are in there is if you went in when nobody was there to see.

I totally agree on the "allies" thing. This is probbly my #1 pet pieve about SE4 as it exists today (and about SE3 before it). "Allies" should not be able to claim or colonize in a system you already claim, unless it was already "contested" at the time the treaty was signed. You should be allowed to fight in that sort of contested system, regardless of what treaty applies elsewhere.

Re: Enemy movement (turn-based)
 

You can demand that your allies declare war against the enemy. Often they will. They also often appear to be able to ignore you totally if they so wish. In my own experience, they will declare war but do very little actual fighting. Just as I would in their place. http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/ima...ons/icon12.gif

[This message has been edited by ColdSteel (edited 07 February 2001).]

Re: Enemy movement (turn-based)
 

Speaking of allies, will they fight on your side in a battle?

Re: Enemy movement (turn-based)
 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ColdSteel:
....

In fact, I think adding a new cloaked "sensor base" that you could build on warp points that would give you the above log message would be pretty cool and add something to the game....<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I currently use cloaked sat's for this function, but I do agree with everyone on the idea of logging enemy movements between turs - at least when its a "now you see 'em, now you don't" kinda' thing. I like the method of "Phrong fleet exited System Xy at Warp Point 6,6" or something like that - maybe using the "Go To" button or something...

Re: Enemy movement (turn-based)
 

I am a newcomer to the SE series and have played only the SEIV demo for several hours (BTW I did purchase the game since I absolutely LOVED the demo but I haven't played the full Version yet). One of the first things that I noticed with the SEIV demo was the inability to view enemy movement during the enemy's turn. At first I thought that this was a bug or that there must be an option somewhere to turn it on, but after reading this thread apparently not! My history with turn-based games is Heroes of Might and Magic 3(HOMM3), and more recently Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri(SMAC). Both of these turn-based games allow you to see enemy movement. Reading this thread and thinking about the pros/cons of displaying enemy movement I think a good solution would be to display enemy movement that is within a certain range of your ships/planets/etc. That way even single square storms would still be useful if an enemy ship entered them out of range of your units. I really like the way that in SMAC you can still see all of the areas of the map that you have uncovered but cannot see past the sensor range of your units and bases (i.e. you can see the terrain but it is displayed dimmed). So if this were implemented in SEIV, once you enter a system the whole system would be revealed except that you would not be able to view enemy ship movement beyond the "sensor" range of your ships/planets/etc. Taking a quick look at the SEIV HTML help on sight I notice that there are 5 types of sensors used in SEIV. Forgive my "newbieness" but why not just display the movement of enemy ships when they are within range of your sensors?

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Nethog

Re: Enemy movement (turn-based)
 

Good questions, Nethog. I think this would be a very good solution to the problems we've discussed here. Especially since sensor range is pretty limited. Even more so early in the game.

With this idea, if you put a sensor satellite on a warp point you could watch enemy movements in and out of a system but not much else. You could still hide in storms that are out of sensor range. It adds more strategy to the game too.

I really like it. http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/ima...ons/icon10.gif

Re: Enemy movement (turn-based)
 

Anybody else got a take on Nethogs suggestion?