Network CD-Keys
 

Wouldn't it be possible to sell additional CD-Keys for MP games? Illwinter could even disable the single player option and maybe sell it for $19.99. What do you guys think? Wouldn't this be great?

Re: Network CD-Keys
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">That decision rests in the hands of shrapnelgames, and they say that their experience with selling codes and downloads only is negative.

Re: Network CD-Keys
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">A check if the turn was submited from on of these IP-Ranges does the trick:
10.0.0.0 - 10.255.255.255 (10/8 prefix)
172.16.0.0 - 172.31.255.255 (172.16/12 prefix)
192.168.0.0 - 192.168.255.255 (192.168/16 prefix)

This isn't a technical problem. It's politics as well...

Re: Network CD-Keys
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Or checking for a network name. Or using pings and traceroutes. There are alot of ways. Some are easier to spoof than others. Everything has its pros and cons. This just seems to be an area which Illwinter decided not to tackle.

The easiest thing might just be for a user to setup a shared directory PBEM game so that it looks HotSeat. I wont foolproof (script or batch file) this method until Im more sure of Illwinters or Shrapnels standing on such info.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">

[ January 18, 2004, 13:41: Message edited by: Gandalf Parker ]

Re: Network CD-Keys
 

But come on, people won't go as far as spoofing their IP. They would just download a key generator or a cracked exe or something.

I'm talking about the honest players here. I think it would be fair to allow the people who actually bought the game to play a MP-Game without spending a truckload of money. Limit it to 3 or 4 players. I would even applaud a limit of 2 players.

Allowing free LAN games or selling additional MP-Keys would be a great way to reward the honest players.

Re: Network CD-Keys
 

Bleh. You've been given your answer and a method and now you arguing not with the ones who control it, but the ones who deal with the policies in place. Perhaps you should Email these points to Shrapnel. I'm sure it would prove much more beneficial to whatever you are trying to accomplish.

Edit: Never underestimate those willing to find ways not to pay for legitimate services. It's a long proud human tradition.

[ January 18, 2004, 14:05: Message edited by: Zen ]

Re: Network CD-Keys
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I dont think anyone, not even the two companys involved, is arguing that point.

Re: Network CD-Keys
 

I think the easiest way to allow multiplayer games is to remove the turn-limitation of the demo...

I know I played a lot of them before my full copy of Dom I arrived. The research cap (and the fact I loved the game dearly) were enough for me to purchase it for good after a week intense playing.

I'd love to show around Dom on one of our bimonthly LAN sessions as well, but I can't afford to purchase the five to eight copies required for that. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Network CD-Keys
 

I recently attended a LAN party and showed the game to my friends. I didn't know that it isn't possible to play a LAN game with just one key and played some single player on a video beamer. I tried to get some people to remember our old paper PBEM days and get a game going. After the intial enthusiasm the appeal of Dominions soon faded when we noticed that we couldn't even try the game in MP. They resumed to play Starcraft.

That kept me wondering why people are still playing Starcraft with so many RTS-Games out there. I really think that it's the multiplayer spawn installation. You can play a 4 player game with a single copy. But you know what? Nobody was playing with a spawned installation. After playing Starcraft for years everybody bought his own copy.

We even checked out the Online store to see if you can buy and download Dominions Online. I could imagine that some folks would have bought a cheap MP-Key. And some of them (I am sure) would have loved the game and probably would have come back to get the full Version as well.

I know that the comparison between Starcraft and Dominions isn't really fair. Nonetheless would it be nice to have the possibility to somehow play a MP-Game without a full Version for every player. Heck, I can't even play a network game with my girlfriend (who has her computer in the same room as me) without buying a second copy.

I understand this is Shrapnel Games' decision and I can see their point. But from a player's perspective it sucks.

Re: Network CD-Keys
 

[ January 18, 2004, 12:50: Message edited by: Zen ]

Re: Network CD-Keys
 

The game supports multiple machines playing together as long as each machine has a unique CD-key.

The game supports multiple people on one machine (hotseat) allowing them to play all on the same CD-key.

But LAN would require multiple machines all having the same CD-key and some way of recognizing that its on a lan. Not as easy as the other 2. Illwinter has not tried to program that in.

The idea that there is a cost break by not printing a CD and manual in order to provide a cheap CD-key Online (maybe $20) is not a programming question. Its not in Illwinteres territory but is in Shrapnels territory to decide that. Apparently their experience says NO.

Re: Network CD-Keys
 

Actually, I think the comparison between Starcraft and Dom2 is fairly apt. The reason people are still playing Starcraft six years after its original release isn't because their are free multiplayer installs, it's because the game-play still hasn't been completely eclipsed by a comparable game.

Sure there have been a truckload of RTS games with better graphics and incremental innovations, but these are trivial at best and interfere with the game at worst.

People still play Starcraft because they can look past the dated graphics and see the superbly balanced game underneath. It helps, of course, that Starcraft was polished to a glossy sheen before release and the interface is still very intuitive.

Re: Network CD-Keys
 

What Gandalf said. LAN play with just one key isn't possible. I recently thought about playing a MP-Game in which every player plays 2 nations. Even that doesn't work...

Re: Network CD-Keys
 

Yes http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif Gandalf is correct.

Free Multi-player would be great, but I can see the business reasoning and profit margining behind this particular way. I hope that in the near future they would be able to sell just CD Keys (whether or not they are sold Online or not, is another issue) for a diminished price. But I don't get my hopes up. That may be because I'm of the opinion that Dom2 is worth every penny of the $50.00 I spent on it. The same I did for Starcraft years ago, and even bought another copy when I lost the CD a year or two later when I could have just as easily burned or downloaded a new copy.

Either way, you'd have to try to send a petition to Shrapnel and not IW for it.

Re: Network CD-Keys
 

I've the same problem with my friends : currently the only way is to use demo Version. But I have 12+ people that could be interested in a pbem, and there are only seven playable nations !

Maybe selling keys and downloads is a risky business, although for example Stardock (makers of GalCiv) was successful with that.
However, I can't see any strong argument for not allowing non-registered copies to join Online/LAN games (only). Combat Mission for example allows that (there's no key but CD is required to play).
Given the game "potential audience" and the fact that Online Dom2 games aren't that friendly (how many Dom2 owners play it ?), I can't think of this "robbing" the publisher from paying customers.
People introduced to the game this way will either quit or buy it if they're hooked...

Re: Network CD-Keys
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I have some problem with this view. The Online multiplayer mode is the purpose for the game. It would be a walk down a long path to convince the devs to treat it differently, no matter if it was true or not.

[ January 20, 2004, 16:38: Message edited by: Gandalf Parker ]

Re: Network CD-Keys
 

Starcraft is one game allowing multiple installs from the same CD, Half Life/Counterstrike is another. It is also a game which has had massive success, even though it has long been eclipsed by other FPS. One reason, which is important to me, is being able to install on a LAN. I have five machines in the house and a single disc made a big difference in my game of choice. I also second the opinion that the game then gets bought by other Users. All of my friends now have the game, except Cyrus. His girlfriend won’t let him play games at home!

To be fair, I do not think many people are going to play DOM on a LAN, so I do not think it is a big deal. I just wanted to throw in that for me, as a consumer, I feel that I should buy one copy of the game and use it in my house as I please. I have paid for the game, fair and square, so let me use it.

Re: Network CD-Keys
 

A lot of games don't do CD Key verification when you play via lan, checking only when playing on the internet. I hate buying multiple copies of a game so my wife can play it for a week and then quit.

BTW, did I understand that you said if you used those IP's you were able to play via LAN?

Re: Network CD-Keys
 

No the game does not do LAN IP recognition. And it does not do any other LAN recognition. It does PBEM or TCP/IP games and each player coming from a different IP must have a different CD-key.
For now that covers most multiplayer games and even allows for solo hotseat play.