Hoburg Alliance Special Edition, now complete with hoburg heroes
 

A new release of my modded Hoburg mod, includes (as in new units not found in Illwinter's original Hoburg mod) 2 sacred units, one mage, and replacements for all 4 Ulm heroes.

Available at Illwinter's site.

[ January 24, 2004, 11:54: Message edited by: Teraswaerto ]

Re: Hoburg Alliance Special Edition, now complete with hoburg heroes
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">What? No sneaky little halfling assassins? Or even spies?
How about my favorite tactic from DnD. Give them all amulets of barkskin and poisoned daggers. Then load them onto catapults. "You hear a strange screaming which is coming closer and Closer and CLOSER.. IT'S ABOVE YOU!"

--
If you cant beat 'em, join 'em.
If you cant beat em or join em,
then at least try to surprise them.

[ January 18, 2004, 18:30: Message edited by: Gandalf Parker ]

Re: Hoburg Alliance Special Edition, now complete with hoburg heroes
 

Great work, Teraswaerto. Outstanding concepts for the heroes.

One idea could be to make an assasin priest for the short folks. Thus giving them one very good reason for a strong bless effect.

Could be Hoburg Restmakers. Created by the lack of punch these little people got against the undead of Ermor. Take out the undead leaders and the whole hord falls. That they work well against mundane enemies are just a nice bonus. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[ January 18, 2004, 18:36: Message edited by: Wauthan ]

Re: Hoburg Alliance Special Edition, now complete with hoburg heroes
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">They were planned, trust me. However there are no commands listed with which to add spying or assassination ability, and I didn't want to mess with units that can be used by other nations. After the next patch, I hope.
<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Thanks!

[ January 18, 2004, 18:57: Message edited by: Teraswaerto ]

Re: Hoburg Alliance Special Edition, now complete with hoburg heroes
 

Can't get the file, link is broken/File Not Found ... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif
Can you host it again - or send it via email (cf my profile) ?
Thx

Re: Hoburg Alliance Special Edition, now complete with hoburg heroes
 

Great mod! I had loads of fun with it. Would like to see 1 leader with a strategic move of 2.

Leadman

Re: Hoburg Alliance Special Edition, now complete with hoburg heroes
 

Hmm, the link is broken for me too. Does Illwinter have the latest Version?

As for strat move 2: Umm. Their legs are roughly a foot long=) Unless there's a mounted leader, I wouldn't expect strat-move 2... but then, I can't try the mod until I know where to get the latest Version...

Re: Hoburg Alliance Special Edition, now complete with hoburg heroes
 

The one on the Illwinter site is late latest Version. There's no mention there of it having been updated, but it has.

The Tierfreunds know how to find secred paths and forgotten roads, so they can travel faster than the average hoburg. If they were size 2 I'd give them map move 3. Maybe a (recruitable) Tierfreund leader might be in order, though there kinda is one already: Rhianne the Wandering Dream-Trickster. The Starving Hoburg (though I'd give him leadership 0 if it only were possible) and The Glory of Dreams also have map move 2.

[ January 24, 2004, 06:59: Message edited by: Teraswaerto ]

Re: Hoburg Alliance Special Edition, now complete with hoburg heroes
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I've been having a lot of fun this past week conquering a small world with Hobb... er... Hoburgs, but that's probably because I like missile troops so much. Not much variety in those armies, it was hordes of crossbows, backed by a few "heavy" hobbits, with the Burgmeisters and "big" mages - later, Fire then Air mages for Flaming Arrows and Wind Guide, but by then I was buying 3-resource indy Archers instead http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

When I explained this to (non-Dom2 playing) friends, they all agreed: Hobbits kick ***, anyway. Look what they did to those poor Witch-King and Sauron.

Re: Hoburg Alliance Special Edition, now complete with hoburg heroes
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I hope that you will add the recruitable Tierfreund leader. A recruitable Hog Knight leader would also be nice. The addition of a heavy pikeman (really a long spear and no shield)would add a little more tactical variety. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif Thanks again!

Leadman

Re: Hoburg Alliance Special Edition, now complete with hoburg heroes
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I wish there were indy archers with 2 strat move. Well, there are those Woodsmen, but I mean semi-armored ones - ringmail is about as low as you can go and have a decent chance of surviving a flock of arrows.

Once again, I'm impressed by the indy plate cuirass archers... resource expensive... but wow, they're practically immune to enemy shortbows. I never buy indy res-3 archers unless I have no other choice.

Re: Hoburg Alliance Special Edition, now complete with hoburg heroes
 

I'm curious, is anyone using the sacred units? They are fairly cheap (perhaps too cheap even, not really sure), aren't capitol only, and can be pretty effective too with the right blessing(s).

Re: Hoburg Alliance Special Edition, now complete with hoburg heroes
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">The "heavy" archers take forever to recruit; what I like in the res-3 archers is that you can make a dozen or more of them in a turn in a decent province. Instant army in a pinch, and with decent numbers, the enemy only gets one volley at them before routing... (caveat: I'm talking about SP here. Real players may tend to not let themselves get slaughtered according to plan)

Re: Hoburg Alliance Special Edition, now complete with hoburg heroes
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I'm using the Volkfreund. They're not bad with the right blessings. I don't think that they're too cheap because the hit points are so low. I haven't used the Tierfreund because of a lack of a strategic move 2 leader (hint http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif ).

Leadman

Re: Hoburg Alliance Special Edition, now complete with hoburg heroes
 

Wish granted! A new stealthy strat move 2 commander added, as well as a few minor typo fixes. Should be available on the Illwinter site soon.

Re: Hoburg Alliance Special Edition, now complete with hoburg heroes
 

Also available at this link.

http://personal.inet.fi/surf/leila.p...AllianceSE.zip

Re: Hoburg Alliance Special Edition, now complete with hoburg heroes
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Great! Many thanks! As soon as I finish my current game, I'll give it a run and let you know how it worked. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Leadman

Re: Hoburg Alliance Special Edition, now complete with hoburg heroes
 

Ooooh, hoburgs!

Now there just needs to be a nation-spesific hoburgh commander?

A pint size enchanter, or an arch-mage mounted on a shaggy pony? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Hoburg Alliance Special Edition, now complete with hoburg heroes
 

You mean a pretender? I'd do one (or two http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif ), but Ulm doesn't have any pretenders available only to them. I guess I could make the mod replace some other nation that has a pretender available only to them, but I think I'll rather wait 'till the mod tools are more complete, since that isn't the only thing that needs changing, and it's thematically appropriate for the Hoburg Alliance to replace Ulm.

edit:
On second thought, is the Master Alchemist Ulm only?

[ January 30, 2004, 14:39: Message edited by: Teraswaerto ]

Re: Hoburg Alliance Special Edition, now complete with hoburg heroes
 

Master Alchemist is indeed Ulm only. Hit him with the "get short" stick!

Re: Hoburg Alliance Special Edition, now complete with hoburg heroes
 

Just downloaded the mod. Still haven't gotten to try it out. I was just wondering about traditional hobb... half... uh, hoburgh lore.

The traditional weapons, of course, are the sling and the shortsword. (Cue nostalgic Master of Magic musings about murderous hobbit-slingers). It would be neat to have _usable_ slingers in the world of Dominions.

Hoburgh slingers with accurasy 14 or 15 could actually make the weapon work. A leather cuirass and a shortsword would round up a sling unit nicely.

--

"Mum! The hurthling is scaring me!"*

Re: Hoburg Alliance Special Edition, now complete with hoburg heroes
 

Since the hoburg crossbows are so good, there would be very little incentive to use slingers.

[ January 31, 2004, 06:41: Message edited by: Teraswaerto ]

Re: Hoburg Alliance Special Edition, now complete with hoburg heroes
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Just give them the MOM halfling slings that do 200 damage at range 50=) Seriously, though, slings are 0 resources, so I can certainly see a use for 5 gold, 1 resource hoburgs with a dagger, sling, and leather cuirass. With Flaming Arrows... they'd be better than crossbows, as they fire every turn.

However, I think hobugs need wristbows, like in Deus Ex. Oooh... hoburg mini-wrist-xbow assassins... and maybe some primitive tanks, too, with gatling slings. They really need a Hoburg Wagon that can hold 10 burgers and give them strat-move 2. Transports! Yes! That's what Dominions is missing... the flying carpet needs to be genericized.

Re: Hoburg Alliance Special Edition, now complete with hoburg heroes
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Just give them the MOM halfling slings that do 200 damage at range 50=) Seriously, though, slings are 0 resources, so I can certainly see a use for 5 gold, 1 resource hoburgs with a dagger, sling, and leather cuirass. With Flaming Arrows... they'd be better than crossbows, as they fire every turn.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I've been trying the Hoburgs at about the same time I discovered the beauty of Flaming Arrows and Wind Guide... but, to tell the truth, it takes some work to have the Hoburgs develop enough magic for this. I just happened to find a site that allows for the recruitment of Astral/Fire mages, so that made the trick...

Re: Hoburg Alliance Special Edition, now complete with hoburg heroes
 

The Obstgaertner has 1 random elemental, so 1 out of 4 has fire 1, and a fire 1 mage can cast phoenix power with a gem, and then cast Flaming Arrows with 2 gems. Should work, though it's a bit of a hassle.

*edit*
Though the fatigue is probably too much... maybe if another mage casts Relief a few times.

[ January 31, 2004, 12:07: Message edited by: Teraswaerto ]

Re: Hoburg Alliance Special Edition, now complete with hoburg heroes
 

Ip! Feeling silly.

How does one install and use these mods? A small instruction file in the .zip pack wouldn't hurt parhaps?

Re: Hoburg Alliance Special Edition, now complete with hoburg heroes
 

Download the Zip. Unzip the files into the .../Dominions2/mod/ directory (wherever it is). Start your game and go to preferences, mod preferences and enable/disable the mods.

Re: Hoburg Alliance Special Edition, now complete with hoburg heroes
 

Aaaaaaaaargh! Enable mods.

Thank you. Didn't make me feel any smarter though... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Hoburg Alliance Special Edition, now complete with hoburg heroes
 

I'm having fun with the mod. The starving hoburg hero is especially brilliant. Reminded me of the Warhammer halflings and their obsession with food. Also the actual myth is scary and grim (and food oriented). Genius! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

I'd like to change something though. The hog knights should have a strategic move of 2 and the little fellows would need a commander for them. One can create such with the gift of reason, but I think a mounted commander (small pony or a hog) would be nice.

The fact that the hogs are only big enough to trample hoburgs is an amusing touch. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Hoburg Alliance Special Edition, now complete with hoburg heroes
 

Another thing, the priest is not sacred. Isn't he supposed to be?

Re: Hoburg Alliance Special Edition, now complete with hoburg heroes
 

Anyone with levels in holy is automatically sacred.

There is a commander for the Hog Knights - Barthulf the Hog Meister, a hero. Maybe a recruitable one could be added, but I'm not sure it would really contribute anything important to the mod. Strat move 1 seems appropriate for a pig carrying a fat, armored, hoburg on it's back.

Re: Hoburg Alliance Special Edition, now complete with hoburg heroes
 

I don't think that's right. About the strat move. A mounted unit should be able to get the srat move 2. It's not like that cavalry speed yet. And for that they need a move 2 commander.

Othervice, the faction plays nicely. I think I'll try them out for our next multiplay game. Just need that tiny alchemist (possibly on a siz 3 hog like the knight hero) and an upped move for the knights.

Re: Hoburg Alliance Special Edition, now complete with hoburg heroes
 

A small strangeness in the unit descriptions. The Hoburg champion is described as weilding a mace, though he actually has a shortsword.

I hope he get's to keep the shortsword. For some reason the mace has _both_ less damage and no attack or defence bonus.

I think a mace is supposed to be a rather heavy weapon. Used by knights to bash at other knights.

Re: Hoburg Alliance Special Edition, now complete with hoburg heroes
 

The Erdefreund is map move 2, though he is a bit expensive since he has other abilities too. I guess giving the Hog Knights map move 2 might be good after all, since at the moment they seem fairly weak for the cost.

The alchemist-->hoburg conVersion is pretty much done, but I'm not happy with the graphics. Might fiddle with it a bit more.

Re: Hoburg Alliance Special Edition, now complete with hoburg heroes
 

Marvelous. I'll be looking forward to it.

[I'm fooling around with your clever mod a bit to find out how these things work (just for local use of course). I've tried out the strat move 2 hog-knights and that makes the hoburg nation much more playable. I'm going to try making a Hog-knight commander for them next.]

Found the third hero yesterday. Having played a hobbit-trickster for many years in a tabletop RPG, I really enjoyed your ideas on such.

Re: Hoburg Alliance Special Edition, now complete with hoburg heroes
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Just give them the MOM halfling slings that do 200 damage at range 50=) Seriously, though, slings are 0 resources, so I can certainly see a use for 5 gold, 1 resource hoburgs with a dagger, sling, and leather cuirass. With Flaming Arrows... they'd be better than crossbows, as they fire every turn.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I've been trying the Hoburgs at about the same time I discovered the beauty of Flaming Arrows and Wind Guide... but, to tell the truth, it takes some work to have the Hoburgs develop enough magic for this. I just happened to find a site that allows for the recruitment of Astral/Fire mages, so that made the trick... </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Just use a Moloch with 9 Fire to do the trick. The Fire blessing to those cheap holy units is also a big plus. Though it's strange but it's thematically, marginally possible that the hobbit, no holburg got tamed by the dark side. Also, to win, who care http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif .

The mod seems to be a little bit overpower to me - I'm serious. I think I can use it to beat quite a lot of the regular nations, might be even in an MP game.

The holy units need to be capital only but there's probably no way to mod it in right now. Volkfriend is too cheap, though you can argue it's similar to the Sun Warriors of Mictlan with less hp and higher protection. The mass-crossbow is devastating but that's rightfully a characteristics of horburg nation. 100 gold for a 3 magic horticulturist is a little bit too low IMHO. 120 or 150 would be more appropriate. Also, why are most priests and mages have 25 leadership? Most of the other nations, except for Marignon, usually have only 10. For horburg slingers, it's thematic to just give the weapon to the militia.

Re: Hoburg Alliance Special Edition, now complete with hoburg heroes
 

I'd rather make the Volkfreund weaker and leave it non-capitol restricted, and make the Tierfreund capitol only, possibly with a slight boost if appropriate.

Machakan Witch Doctors, for example, have 3 paths at 1 for only 90 gold, so I don't think the Horticulturist is too cheap. The Obstgaertner will be capitol only, BTW, once that becomes possible (and I'll add a Verehrt Obstgaertner as another capitol only mage).

Any new commander has 25 leadership, that can't be affected, as far as I know.

Great idea about giving the militia slings.

Re: Hoburg Alliance Special Edition, now complete with hoburg heroes
 

The tierfreund is not powerful enough to be capital only (I think anyway). Nor does the volkfreund seem overpowered.

Heck, it's very hard to be overpowered with strength ~ 5 and armed with a shorsword.

Surprisingly enough the hoburgs can sometimes manage to take on normal heavy infantry, but they do need 2 - 3 times their number.

Re: Hoburg Alliance Special Edition, now complete with hoburg heroes
 

The Tierfreund is supposed to have 10+ or perhaps 15+ stealth, but that isn't possible yet. They are weak, frail, and virtually unarmored, but still quite deadly in battle due to the poisonous magic weapon, and a defense of 15 (without any blessings).

Re: Hoburg Alliance Special Edition, now complete with hoburg heroes
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">With Fire 9 blessing, I had a 48 Volkfreunds plus Burgmeister Guards army routing a 24 Heavy Cavalry (8 of them killed) + Light Cavalry, Light Infantry indie (70 units total). It's not easy for any other nations I played.

With their low cost, lack of capital-restriction, I can easily field a 100+ Volkfreunds by turn 10-12. Horburg also has access to cheap Nature 1 mage and thus the spell "Protection" (Alteration 3 only), which add another 7 protection to the units. That's a mighty army.

Re: Hoburg Alliance Special Edition, now complete with hoburg heroes
 

BTW, I'm picking on the game balance because I like Hoburg and think that this mod would be fun to play against other nations in an MP game http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif .

For SP, it's more than fine enough.

Re: Hoburg Alliance Special Edition, now complete with hoburg heroes
 

Interesting reading ywf. I must say I hadn't noticed that.

Since I play multiplay with three other RPG enthusiasts, our games tend to be more thematic and minimaxed.

What you said does check out, so those guys seem to be rather dangerous. The low damage (and weak poison) still limits their punch, however.

Re: Hoburg Alliance Special Edition, now complete with hoburg heroes
 

Volkfreunds currently have slightly better "physical" stats than other hoburgs. Strenght and hit points are 7 instead of 5. If they had a gold cost of 20, instead of the current 18, and 6 strenght and hp, would they still, in your opinion, be overpowered?

I don't want to make them capitol only, since it wouldn't be thematic, and I've always thought more nations should have access to holy troops beyond what can be produced in one province.

[ February 05, 2004, 16:47: Message edited by: Teraswaerto ]

Re: Hoburg Alliance Special Edition, now complete with hoburg heroes
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Volkfreund - not the Tierfreund.

Re: Hoburg Alliance Special Edition, now complete with hoburg heroes
 

Hmm... I have to say hoburg alliance with a fire 9 pretender sounds very strange to me. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Then again, it may not sound so strange to others, and there of course musn't be easily exploitable loopholes in any mod. But doesn't the fire 9 blessing make monsters out of any holy unit?

Re: Hoburg Alliance Special Edition, now complete with hoburg heroes
 

Not really. What makes it so good with the Volkfreund is that they can be recruited in great numbers from any castle.

Re: Hoburg Alliance Special Edition, now complete with hoburg heroes
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I'm not claiming Volkfreunds being overpowered, which requires more people to test it. I've just found one particular way to make them very powerful. I haven't really tested that much for Dom 2 but Volkfreunds are strong only in number with Fire bless effects. Most other bless effects probably won't help them too much. Individually, they're just some nice, cute, little infantries.

It's very hard to compare with the other regular nations since the only non-capital holy units (as far as I can remember) is Marignon's Flagellants, which are weak versus missles.

So, I guess to make than less powerful, the better way is to give them less protection, 10 or less will be more appropriate. But, even with that, spells like "Protection" or "Mass Protection", which is accessible by this mod, can easily increase their protection by 7. "Legions of Steel" and "Strength of Giant", both requires only Earth 3, are also available.

If I were to choose, I'll definitely make them capital only. If you check around in the newsgroup and Posts, one idea to explain building national units in the castles is because their administration and infrastructure help equiping your national units. It is *not* because your natives have moved to the new castle - not a colony. If we follow this line of thought, restricting Volkfreunds to capital, or at least to non-Hoburg provinces, is reasonable.

If not, I'll probably take out the holy bit, increase the hitpoint and strength to 8, increase the gold a little bit as they're rare.

Alternatively, if I want to keep the holy bit, I'd increase the gold to 40, resource to 28 (similar to Man's Wardens). Keep the original stats. But even that, for agreesive, physical players, 40 golds is not unaffordable.

Re: Hoburg Alliance Special Edition, now complete with hoburg heroes
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">It's strange http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif but sometimes the game is played like a competitive strategic game. Or we can image that the Hoburgs are enslaved and driven by a Moloch or Fire Dragon. Possible? For game balancewise, we can take Moloch out of the pretender list but it'll be kind of odd as every land nations, even Caelum has it.

Flagellants would be a nice candidate for Fire blessing but they could be slaughtered by missle. A Fire 9/Air ? pretender for Marignon could cover this vulnerability but it'd be expensive. A Marignon army with an Air mage casting "Arrow Fend" is a strategy yelling "try me". I guess we'll need MP players who've seen it to describe their experience.

Re: Hoburg Alliance Special Edition, now complete with hoburg heroes
 

I think you overestimate their power. 7 is pretty low as far as hitpoints are concerned.

Re: Hoburg Alliance Special Edition, now complete with hoburg heroes
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Could be.

That's why I stressed that it's only some rough impression of a single person http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif . More veteran players need to test and get a feeling of it.

But on the other hand, Flagellants have only 9 hitpoints, 0 protection and lower attack and defense skills - though they're in fact cheaper and require less resource.

But in my testing, I haven't put the Boots of the Behemoth, Ring of Regeneration and Fire Shield on my Moloch and use him as a super-combatant yet. Even without the super-combatant, it was already expanding faster than what I could with the best of my other regular nations.