Possible bug?
 

In a R'yleh game I'm playing (with Luck 2) I got a Vastness sometime just shy of turn 20. A few turns later I gave it the Gift of Reason. It's now 50 turns later and I have yet to summon another one (my current skill is 36). I have summoned over 2 dozen Greater Othernesses (usually I get a pair), but no more Vastnesses. In other games in which I had not done the Gift I would be getting a mix of Vastnesses and Greater Othernesses.

Is the game rigged (for play balance) so you cannot summon more of a creature of the type that's been Gifted? Is it not possible to Gift more than one of a given creature type? If so, then the spell description should tell you this. (I would have waited to get a few more before Gifting one of them.)

[ January 22, 2004, 11:08: Message edited by: Arryn ]

Re: Possible bug?
 

Above a certain summoning skill level the probability of a vastness decreases and multiple GO's are more common. The vastness should only disappear entirely when you have a ridicously high summoning skill (yes, 36 is ridicously high http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif )

Ridicously, ridiculously, ridicule ??? Bah. Francophonetics. Sillily, silliously high? Damn language!

Löjligt höga värden!!! Speak Swedish for a better tomorrow http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif

Re: Possible bug?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Thanks!

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Thank you, but I like English just fine. Just content yourself in the knowledge that Sweden is world-famous for 4 very good things: Volvo cars & trucks, Nobel prizes, jet fighter aircraft, and turn-based strategy games (Illwinter and Paradox, to name two companies).

Re: Possible bug?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Upon further reflection, I have one question: why?

It makes little sense to be "penalized" for getting good. And the Vastness is certainly a better summon than even 2 GOs. IMO. Please reconsider the "logic" of making what is arguably the best summon in the game so awkward to get. If you want to make them rare, then skew the chances so that you need higher skill to get them. Not the current system where you only need skill 9-14 or so (which isn't that hard to do), and then after that you lose the ability to get what you've earned. The Vastness should be a reward for luck and diligence. Personally, I'd gladly trade a dozen-plus of my GOs for another one.

Re: Possible bug?
 

Leave it how it is , because I dont want somebody massing vastnessies

Re: Possible bug?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I wouldn't mind a restriction of 1 vastness at a time, even. A vastness can take out most armies I've seen...

Alternately, if every vastness alive decreased the vastness summoning chances (1/2, 1/3, 1/4, 1/5, ...) that would work just as well.

If high summoning skill let you mass vastnessess... Rlyeh would generally win at around turn 50, if it could simply survive that long, without even expanding. And was lucky.

Re: Possible bug?
 

I would second the 1 Vastness at a time scenario.

It would be a waiting game. Greater Othernesses are just fine for elite troops IMO and piles of those are more than enough for the risk of losing a cheap illithid priest.

Re: Possible bug?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">They're "only" good for chomping armies of about 20-30 normal troops (non-Jots). Solo, that is. They are much more effective if given a little support. I use mine, without support, to wreak havoc in the AI's rear areas.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">That would be okay. It's reasonable and doesn't sound disbalancing.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">A bit of an exaggeration. At least if you play as I do on large maps like Orania, and with indies set to 7+. On smaller maps and/or with normal (ie: weak) indies, yes, I can see how Vastnesses can rule.

Re: Possible bug?
 

Of course, depending on the Victory Conditions it could/couldnot be as exploitive. Especially if you are playing on a larger map, because it gives the R'lyeh more time. A Vastness can take out most anything, including magical attacks (like Ashen Angels and Earth Attacks) and with a movement of 10, they can just jump with impunity wherever they want and you can't touch them.

There is a limit to things like Demon Lords (or is supposed to be, I've been able to get multiples, but I'm sure this is a bug), why not Vastnesses?

Perfectly acceptable considering they can get them any turn after 15+ or switch in and out summoners in order to try to 'maximize' the Vastness summoning.

Edit: A properly used Vastness can take out 80-100 Troops without much danger to themselves. But, as it's been said before, it's all in the equipment. Blood Vengance is a killer.

[ January 23, 2004, 07:35: Message edited by: Zen ]

Re: Possible bug?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Eh? My Vastness has only a slot for gems. They'd be really abusive if they had equipment slots too.

Re: Possible bug?
 

Must be a Doom Horror. My mistake.

I just tested the Vastness. He is more than capable of taking out 50-60 Hardened Troops. And still takes out all the Manifestations, Earth Attacks, he did die to a Pale Riders though. But I think it was just the sheer number of lances and being undead.

I'd hope a Level 9 Spell would take him out before he can jump to another province.

Re: Possible bug?
 

Teleport and Magic duel AFAIK. It's a simple combo to drive a vastness out. Poor vastness is a S3 mage, It should be the biggest weakness.
Teleport + Paralyze + Soul slay or something like as well, it's fine when you give the mage a Rune Smasher / Spell Focus. It's a practically way to slain a SC...
and,whats the most important is, all this can be done in magic phase, BEFORE he can jump to another province...

Well,I want a Evo/Thu9 commander smasher spell "Power word: Kill" too ^^

[ January 23, 2004, 09:02: Message edited by: void ]

Re: Possible bug?
 

Defenders have first movement. So when you teleport to a province the Vastness is in, he gets to cast first. Guess what spell should be every Vastness's first?

I don't want to give it away, but it starts with a P and ends with an E. Since each battle is seperate, the defender will always get to go first and disable opponent SC's that don't have over 28+ MR.

Re: Possible bug?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">right,right
but...that's easy to solve i think ^^
just have some mages teleport at the same time...

Vastness: P Mage1
Mage1: Idling..
Mage2: Duel..fail
Mage3: Duel...Wow,done^^

[ January 23, 2004, 12:39: Message edited by: void ]