More Nation Specific Pretenders!
 

Some nations have a veritable plethora of National Specific pretenders that you can only play through them. While making more pretenders for each nation would be fantastic, I would hope you could also limit a few of all these pretenders to specific nations (and of course try to allow nations to try to take advantage of blessings).

Maybe limit the Moloch to a few less nations? Along with a few others? Notables are Cyclops, Naga and Golden Naga.

Re: More Nation Specific Pretenders!
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I don't think that this would be a very good idea. considering that the Cyclops and Moloch are the only pretenders with three in their respective magic paths. The nagas are already limited to not being very useful for the cold nations, or for a nation that has sacred mages and thus doesn't want a nature blessing.

Re: More Nation Specific Pretenders!
 

Oh I agree Graeme, I don't want to limit the ability of blessings. But I may just be one of a few that would like Pretenders to be a little more unique. For Fire9 Blessings you only see Molochs and Fire Dragons, for Earth9 Blessings it's hard to look at any other pretender than a Cyclops. But perhaps they could be replaced with more thematic or simply "different" sprites, names, descriptions and abilities that are thematically based on each nation.

As I stated in another thread I'd hope they would give each nation a few options of Upper dominion (3+) while having useful magics, even if they had to increase the new Path price by a significant amount (like a Moloch)

Re: More Nation Specific Pretenders!
 

Try to get a pretender with water-4 or even -6 for Man or Ti-Chi ... you'll most likely end up with the same old boring frost father every time.

I would like to get the Daughter of the River back (thematically fitting for both IMHO), but I wasn't able to find her at all. Devs says she's resticted to some nations, but I haven't fould her at all. Not sureprisinlgy, as the sprite is used for the Lady of Fortune now (which man doesn't get as well, strangly).

Concerning the Nagas: The Golden one does have nature magic, so you needn't burden yourself with a nature bless unless you really want to.
I agree that e.g. cold blooded pretenders shouldn't be available to cold loving nations, though.

A.

Re: More Nation Specific Pretenders!
 

The Daughter of the River has been completely removed from the game I believe.
I agree that the nations should be more specific. Specific units are really great (one of the best element of the game IMHO). What about more national magic items ? We've the Jade Mask and the Black Laurel, that's all IIRC ! Think of Ulm with a monopoly on Fire Shields, or Pythium on the Gloves of Gladiator, or Abysia on Demon Whips... that could make harder solo games, and bring more trades in MP games.
Cheers

Re: More Nation Specific Pretenders!
 

I'd love more pretenders too!

My only worry regarding removing pretenders, in some cases, is less options and flexibility.

More options = good in my book since I enjoy playing in unusual ways. I like research oriented pretenders and normally go for the Sage. I'd hate to see him removed from pretty much any race.

Re: More Nation Specific Pretenders!
 

I want a water-4 air-1 pretender for TC,something like this ^^

125 points.
Rune of Dragon.
(A totem glyph)
HP: 125.
STR: 20.
Protection: 25.
Attack: 12.
Morale: 30.
Defence: 1.
Magic Resist: 25.
AP: 0/2 (Immobile)
Leadership: 0/25/0.
Weapon: None.
Armor: None.
Resist.Fire: 50
Resist.Cold: 0
Resist.Shock: 100
Resist.Poison: 100
Lifeless.
Need not eat.
Dominions: 3
Water: 4
Air: 1
New path cost 60 pts.

*Siege-bonus dealt extra damage to RoD.

Re: More Nation Specific Pretenders!
 

Too bad Pretenders can't be modded yet... Maybe with a next patch ?

Re: More Nation Specific Pretenders!
 

Johan K is the father of Code. Kristoffer O is the father of Theme. What Johan K giveth, Kristoffer O taketh away. ("just kidding guys" as I look to see if my CD-keys are still there)

Seriously though, lets not try to remove anything unless it seems really necessary. We cant just make holes in the pretender list. But if you design some theme pretenders then Im sure Kristoffer will at least consider them. In my opinion it works best if you dont try to design them all the way, just point Krisoffer in a direction.

I was thinking of "Green Man" for Man to give him an easy 3-nature which it seems Man should have. Although it might also fit Ulm. Probably done just as a head like Baphomet.
http://www.mikeharding.co.uk/greenman/greenintro.html

[ January 29, 2004, 13:29: Message edited by: Gandalf Parker ]

Re: More Nation Specific Pretenders!
 

More pretenders would be great, but I have yet to even scratch the surface on playing them. Has anyone played with the Earth Mother yet? Am I describing her right?

Re: More Nation Specific Pretenders!
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Yes, I hope the devs are considering some of the pretenders from the 'Divine Serpent' thread (incuding mine http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif ).

In a related subject, It seems to me the Mother of Lions should be available to more nations. Both man and Pangea have nature magic/high dominion/possible SC pretenders coming out thier ears. So while it's fine that the Mother of Lions is thematically available to these nations, other nations like Machaka also seem a good fit.

Re: More Nation Specific Pretenders!
 

The only problem I have with nation-specific pretenders is that they are all thematic - that is, they do what your nation is already good at. You get a lot more bang for your pretender buck in most instances by taking as non-thematic a pretender as possible...

Re: More Nation Specific Pretenders!
 

Think part of the "problem" is the wish to tie pretenders to theme in such a way that they are "mythically compatible". Trouble is that few are as knowledgeable about old obscure mythical creatures as the developers of this game. Hence all you see are missing faces in the gallery. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: More Nation Specific Pretenders!
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Pythium and Arco have a wide range of possible mythologically compatible gods. Aphrodite, Heracles, Hades, Hermes - none of these should be titan-sized (except maybe Hades), and none are represented by current pretenders. A souped-up Cerberus pretender might be interesting, too, and a Red Bull (Last Unicorn) for Man. Demoralized, feebleminded unicorns would flock to it=) I'd also like to see Tien Chi get a fake dragon (like you see in Chinese new years parades), Atlantis get Jaws (well, not really http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif , and Mictlan/Machaka get a giant tortise.

Re: More Nation Specific Pretenders!
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Pythium and Arco have a wide range of possible mythologically compatible gods. Aphrodite, Heracles, Hades, Hermes - none of these should be titan-sized (except maybe Hades), and none are represented by current pretenders. A souped-up Cerberus pretender might be interesting, too, and a Red Bull (Last Unicorn) for Man. Demoralized, feebleminded unicorns would flock to it=) I'd also like to see Tien Chi get a fake dragon (like you see in Chinese new years parades), Atlantis get Jaws (well, not really http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif , and Mictlan/Machaka get a giant tortise. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Gods of most myths are human sized in some myths and giant sized in some. Gods begets offspring with Titans or Jotuns in one myth and with humans in the next. Zeus is the son of Kronos, who is a Titan. Hades and Zeus are brothers. The Aesir often marries Jotun daughters etc.

A human-sized god looks whimpy. Thus only human pretenders are human sized http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

There is a vast array of possible pretenders. I intend to make some more, but it's a matter of my whims. It is easier to sit down after work and read your Posts than making a new god http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif . I have lists and notes on paper and in files of perhaps fifty units I would like to make, and if I added pretenders from different myths I would easily reach some hundred new critters. Unfortunately (for you, I'm OK with it) I have other jobs.

Re: More Nation Specific Pretenders!
 

Once we have the mod tools to add new gods to nations (and to give them the various abilities pretenders have which aren't yet moddable), the fans will do a lot of this themselves...

PvK

Re: More Nation Specific Pretenders!
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">IIRC No other pretenders has 4 in any magic path. It is overpowered I think.

Re: More Nation Specific Pretenders!
 

Kristoffer,

I second brother PvK. Just give us the tools and we'll cook up the pretenders/units, etc. Personally, I'm dieing to create the full Lovecraftian mythos. And, if I can dig it up, my old copy of AD&D Demons and Demigods will get some wear and tear too.


Ciao,
V'ger gone

Re: More Nation Specific Pretenders!
 

But those are Kristoffers toys. He is a professor of religion/social sciences and Im thinking thats his playground in this little hobby game that got so big. I think maybe he and Johan both have parts of the game creation that they might want to keep to themselves. Making a pretender to go with a full nations mod would be ok but we are seeing mods which are changing the games structure. A mod of just tons of new gods would not thrill me.

I think if they continued to allow gods to be created in the maps that it might be enough. Making special gods as opponents or even for players to use on a map we make, but not added to the game as a selection choice. Id rather see that left in Kristoffers hands then have it get carried away. Since he is willing to listen to suggested ones Im willing to let them filter thru him. Just IMHO

[ January 30, 2004, 14:12: Message edited by: Gandalf Parker ]

Re: More Nation Specific Pretenders!
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I think I've heard this mentioned in a few different threads, and I'm confused. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/confused.gif

I've created a totally new Pretender God and added his icon as a selectable God at God creation, modded his stats, etc.... Is that what people are saying, that you can't create or even mod a pretender? Sure you can...

Re: More Nation Specific Pretenders!
 

OK, I threw together a "God Mod" real quick so people can see how to change/mod a pretender. You can grab it here for now:

http://www.techno-mage.com/~targa/modagod.zip

Should be up on Illwinter whenever they get the time.


EDIT: Heh, well...never mind. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif Was just sitting here reading through old threads when I came across a discussion about modding pretenders, so I guess it's already known. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

To make up for that gaffe, I'm offering pretender icons in tga format to anyone who wants 'em.

[ February 01, 2004, 04:49: Message edited by: Targa ]

Re: More Nation Specific Pretenders!
 

That mod actually doesn't work with the current patch, as the game reduces the pretender to an archmage after stating that Ermor has cheated.

Re: More Nation Specific Pretenders!
 

The mod is placed in under incomplete mods until magic levels has been reduced to avoid the cheat check.

Re: More Nation Specific Pretenders!
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Same file? Id like those. Not so much for modding as for icons. I have Dominions2 in 5 places on my hard drive plus a bunch of quicklinks to various docs and subdirectorys I want fast access to. I would like slightly different Icons for them.

Re: More Nation Specific Pretenders!
 

Yeah, I made the mistake of boosting his magic skills after testing the mod. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/rolleyes.gif

Just for the sake of completeness, I fixed it and uploaded it, as well as sent to the new e-mail addy you sent me, Kris. At least perhaps some people will have fun playing around with him.

Gandalf: OK, will post them in a little while (soon as I finish my coffee). http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif

EDIT: Hrm...due to the fact that the Dom2 engine makes graphics on-the-fly, it's not quite simple to get the grafx (at least in the correct size). As you say you want them for icons, any particular size and/or format? That would help me. Oh, and do you want all of them, or just certain ones? Or...I could give you a big picture with all of them in one and you can cut them out yourself.

Edit2: Forgot to mention that I fixed the mod.

[ February 01, 2004, 18:19: Message edited by: Targa ]