Help me survive against Ermor
 

I am playing Man/Tuatha against a nmber of difficult AIs on Urgaia, been at war for half a dozen turns with Ermor/Broken.

Even though I have twice as many provinces as they (~11-14 against ~5-7), it looks like I can´t win. It´s not so much their Undead but their Human troops that seem invincible. Longbows can´t hurt them, Knights don´t fare so well against the Legionaries, even Daoine Sidhe occasionally falter. A couple Troll mercenaries were my only unit that could really pound the Legions, but they are gone now, and Ermor replaces their losses with phenomenal speed. It looks like they may win the war of attrition, and time is running out for man.

Heeeeelp!!! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Help me survive against Ermor
 

Time to quit with the conventional troops, and start using magic http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Summer Lions and Fall Bears are pretty good. Flaming Arrows will make your archers viable. Orb Lightning and phantasmal summons should make good use of Man's Air mages. And mass protection is always a good idea...

Re: Help me survive against Ermor
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I have no Fire skills and no Earth Gems; Summer Lions, Fall Bears and Flaming Arrows are out of the question.

And I´m at Evocation2, so it´s a long way to Orb Lightning. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

Anything that is low level, useful and Air/Nature?

Re: Help me survive against Ermor
 

Priests, priests and more priests

Re: Help me survive against Ermor
 

Horned serpents are ok, combined with other troops. Black hawks (see Call of the Winds) on Hold and Attack Rearmost. Howl, cast repeatedly, can completely disorganize and overwhelm even a large and powerful enemy army, since the wolves keep coming from all directions.

Make sure every battle has one or two priests in it, to banish undead.

PvK

Re: Help me survive against Ermor
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Useless; my problem is with their living. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

Re: Help me survive against Ermor
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Phantasmal wolves and soldiers, lightning, howl, swarm... and possibly vine ogres + poison spells. You better get on the ball with research! Forge lots of owl quills - you're already on the way to destruction http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Re: Help me survive against Ermor
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I know. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif Much better, though, than if the game were too easy.

Ermor, however, always gives me more trouble than the other nations combined. Do I simply not "get" them, or are they objectively stronger than everybody else?

I could be at Thaumaturgy3 in 4 turns. Is the Panic spell worth it? On paper, this looks like just what I need to disperse the Legions... [Undead are not a problem; my masses of Longbows take care of the Ghouls -but the Principes are another matter!]

Re: Help me survive against Ermor
 

Ok, here´s my plan:

I am researching Panic and building lots of cheap Bards. Each Bard gets a few Green Gems. With a Nature Gem, a Bard can cast Panic (I think).

I´ll try to move around their large armies and isolate one at a time. Then the Bards move in, demoralize everybody, and when they try to retreat, they are dead. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Re: Help me survive against Ermor
 

If you're playing Tuatha I'd suggest:

3-5 Bards

2-3 Sidhe Lords (Or if you can afford it, Tuathas, or more)

A staff of storms (or if you can't forge one, someone who can cast "Storm")

Bards orders: Soothing Song x5, cast spells

Sidhe/Tuatha orders: Summon Storm Power, Eagle Eyes, Orb Lightning x3, cast spells


Position your Bards around the Sidhe Lords singing recovery songs (and usually will keep doing it unless they are near someone who is routing, then they will cast healing song or song of bravery.

If you have a storm going, you will usually get 3 Lightning Bolts per Sidhe Lord or 4 Lighning Bolts per Tuathat, per cast of Orb Lighting.


Or alternatively if you are feeling spicy. Give your Tuatha/Sidhe Lords a magic weapon (or two), have them cast Air Shield and Mistform and have them run in.

This is of course using a complement of Tower Guards in order to hold the backbone while you start.

The top strategy will let you decimate much of his force. If you find that you are positioning your Sidhe close to your enemy you can start with Air Shield to protect from Javelins.

*Edit: Just noticed you were far away from Orb Lighting (WHY?!) so you can use that with Thunder Strike (It's Evocation 4, not really all that far). Or alternatively use only Tuathas (unless you have a SoS) and chaincast Ghost Wolves and use recovery song with the Bards, they will churn out a good factory of them.

[ January 30, 2004, 02:27: Message edited by: Zen ]

Re: Help me survive against Ermor
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Because I usually prefer masses of conventional units, cheap low-level spells and wars of attrition.

Of course it´s difficult to wage a war of attrition against Ermor. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

But, just perhaps, doable. If I draw an army into my territory and surround it, I needn´t kill them. Just scare them into retreat, and Bingo! One army less to worry about. That´s why I want to try that Bard/Panic thingie.

Re: Help me survive against Ermor
 

Bards can't cast panic. And if it costs you gems, why on earth would you waste them on casting Panic? Just summon masses of Vine Men (No morale issues) if you want to waste gems http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Or alternatively get Alteration 4, and have all your bards cast Swarm with as many gems as you can.

OR, use your Sidhe to cast Eagle Eyes and Sleep Cloud (if your problem is only the living Versions)

You can even, if you want, put a Sidhe up front of your army, have him cast Air Shield, and do a "Attack" to get him close then have him sit on "hold, hold hold" so that the Javelins are wasted. Then have your army come in and mop up hand to hand.

Re: Help me survive against Ermor
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Man? just get the access to summon VineOrge, mass them and put your longbows beside. Vine orges are very,very,very good cannon fodder..i dont think that it's a waste http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

(Raise up your dominion, cast Haunted Forest+Swarm in midgame is another way http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif )

Re: Help me survive against Ermor
 

Vine Ogres cost 3 Nature. Tuatha doesn't have access to a base 3 Nature Mage, only normal man does.

I like Vine Ogres, and they are a great compliment to Man's armies, but I wouldn't use 'all' your gems for Vine Ogres, as the game progresses they can be taken down easily with magic.

Re: Help me survive against Ermor
 

Longbows not working ? Are you using enough ? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Actually, if you are going for a war of attrition, you need to find yourself some very cheap cannon fodder, and put it right on the front line (anything that costs 3 or less resources and less than 10 gold will do). That way, your expensive heavy infantry (on hold and attack) will be able to break the enemy without great losses, and hopefully your priests will have dealt with the undead before that.
Plus, do your best to encircle the enemy to destroy him when he does rout.

I must warn you, however, that Ermor, even Broken Ermor, is not the best opponent for a war of attrition. And I a not sure Man is the best nation to try it either http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Remember, for a war of attrition, you need to kill him faster than he can recruit, while taking losses no faster than you can replace them. Losing expensive units, particularly one with high ressource cost, is not the way to do it.

Re: Help me survive against Ermor
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">As General Tacticus said, Longbows should work in enough number (>30 to 40 in a group). Man's Longbows are very powerful. I think you might able to win a game versus AIs with Longbows alone http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif .

Few rgular units can match Man's knights, or other good quality knights, in one-on-one combat. They're probably overwhelmed by number.

You also seems to be using all those high-end units. Man's tower-guards or axemen may not be the best heavy-infantry around but they're adequate versus the legionaires. Remember, you want number before quality in the game.

Number of provinces is not the most critical, it's the total gold and gem (in you can use them) income that matter. Who is higher? How about army size? The AI has a tendency of keep throwing their units at you. If you keep on fighting, ending each battle by inflict a larger casaulty on your enemy than what you suffered, eventually they will break (unless another AI decides to attack you also from another side before that http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif ).

Re: Help me survive against Ermor
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Are you sure? Me thinks the rulebook says any Magician can expend a Gem to cast a spell that is 1 above his level. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/confused.gif

If opponent has nowhere to retreat, Panic should (theoretically) be able to kill, not individual units, but the entire army. Of course it depends on the question if Panic does stack? (In the sense that 6xPanic has a higher probability of success than 1xPanic. If that is so, and I kill an army of 80 with a Grand Thaumaturg, why on Earth should that be a waste?)

Re: Help me survive against Ermor
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">They do very well against the undead, but badly against the Principes, Praetorians and such.

Re: Help me survive against Ermor
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Ermor has standards to counteract the morale loss caused by panic. You'd have to get very lucky to have panic break them all by themselves.

Re: Help me survive against Ermor
 

i recently played Man aswell, though the normal Theme.
My suggestion: get 2 or 3 of the crones, summon lots of vine ogres. Start pumping Longbowmen whenever you can, and put the at the end of the battlefield covered by the vine ogres, they SHOULD do really well, esspecially against Elmor since your arrows wont really "miss". If you have problems with the undeads, banish them. If you can afford buy those guys with the green cloaks, they are REALLY good, set them to hold and attack for one or two actions.

hope it helps

Re: Help me survive against Ermor
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Tuatha doesn't have crones, does it?

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">This is broken empire Ermor, arrows, even longbows, aren't that effective against their human troops, as they have to get through both a defense of 14 vs. an attack of 10 for the arrows (due to the tower shields) and a protection of 14 (vs the 13 damage of the longbows).

Re: Help me survive against Ermor
 

It worked!

I managed to surround their largest army, and wiped them out. I used Bards, Longbows, Daoine Sidhe, a few Slingers, Horned Serpents, one Lord, one Tuatha and the Eternal Knights which I got just in time. Panic was cast a few times, don´t know if the Bards did cast Panic or just the Tuatha. I might have won even without Panic, but I think it helped. Lost only 3 or 4 men, though a few Daoine and a Castellan got feeble-minded. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

I am now finally numerically superior to Ermor, so I think they are finished! Thanks to everybody who gave advice, even those who were sceptical about my brilliant strat! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif Special thanks to Saber Cherry -you were dead right about the necessity to rethink my Research. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif