Seeking map or need advice on making it
 

I'm looking for a map for PBEM with the following traits:

1) 2 player and about 35 provinces,
2) land only,
3) starting locations limited to perhaps 4, all of which are carefully chosen to be "fair" for two player e.g. not cramped in a corner or in the center.

The idea is to make a map that is good for beginners, like me, to practice on without the complexities involved in water and without the long turn cycles often required when many players are involved: aka a newbie map http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

I sort of suspect that this map doesn't exist, or at least I haven't been able to find it.

Assuming it hasn't already been done, any suggestions of where I could find an appropriate base graphic, or any other tips or suggestions on how I might best go about creating such a map would be much appreciated!

[ January 30, 2004, 16:13: Message edited by: diamondspider ]

Re: Seeking map or need advice on making it
 

OK, I have the map scanned in and understand the map editor tool.

I'm stuck on how to indicate the locations of the territories in the map tga file.

[ January 30, 2004, 16:56: Message edited by: diamondspider ]

Re: Seeking map or need advice on making it
 

Do you have pure white 1-pixel dots where each capitol is supposed to be (and no pure white anywhere else on the map)?

I've asked in another thread if anyone knows if the built-in prog works well, and if someone could explain how to use it, since there are no instructions at all, but no responses.

Basically it goes like this: You make/get a tga map. Make sure it has no white pixels. Draw province borders in your paint prog, and 1-pixel pure white dots where the capitols are supposed to be. Load it in the Dom2 map editor and every capitol should have a white flag on it. Then you have to start assigning stuff...somehow. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

I've tried clicking, and get an arrow from the current province to the one I clicked on (no idea what that's supposed to mean). Tried right-clicking to change the active province (that doesn't work). No idea....

[ January 30, 2004, 17:02: Message edited by: Targa ]

Re: Seeking map or need advice on making it
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">HA! Thanks, that is pretty simple. I saw the white dots on the maps but thought there was more to it than that http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Thanks again!

P.S. the arrows show where you can move to and you can Ctrl-click to remove an arrow.

[ January 30, 2004, 17:19: Message edited by: diamondspider ]

Re: Seeking map or need advice on making it
 

I could easily whip out 50 or so with DomMap that you could pick from. But even if it does look like it offers you a balanced game you might want to lock in the starting provinces.

Re: Seeking map or need advice on making it
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Yup, I love that "No Start" feature. I'm sure I can create a few per side that are fair. I think that if they are each exactly one off of all edges and are surrounded by the same number of types of provinces plus having the large provinces only in the center that it should be very fair.

Also, no starting on fresh water and I'll probably start the players on large, mountain, just to givem a jump-start http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Any other ideas to add?

Re: Seeking map or need advice on making it
 

Most maps will hit a limit if you do #nostart. Those are best for marking off a large map with certain provinces which would suck as a starting capital, such as a 1-province island.

Better to use #start and pick a bunch of locations. The game will make sure that all players start in one of those spots. Makes for a shorter list.

Re: Seeking map or need advice on making it
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Nice idea! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Thanks again...

Re: Seeking map or need advice on making it
 

Wow, that was easy: all done!

Thanks again for your help, guys. I'll post it tomorrow.

[ January 30, 2004, 22:36: Message edited by: diamondspider ]

Re: Seeking map or need advice on making it
 

Already?!! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif If you can make a map that quickly, I'm throwing in the towel! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

This is all I've gotten done in a day and a half so far:
http://www.techno-mage.com/~targa/webmap.jpg http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

[ January 30, 2004, 23:21: Message edited by: Targa ]

Re: Seeking map or need advice on making it
 

Splendid!

I feel my spirits rise http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif

Re: Seeking map or need advice on making it
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Hehehe... Well, being a computer professional for 22 years helps http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

I found a GREAT map that was given by a fan of D&D to the public domain via Wizards of the Coast.

Only thing now is that it needs balance testing meaning I get to play it 10 or 20 times http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Final count is 39 provinces, all land.

Maybe someone can help me test it tomorrow.

P.S. Your map looks great! I like it a lot.

I might try to use my Campaign Cartographer too and see how that works. Pretty cool program, that.

[ January 30, 2004, 23:44: Message edited by: diamondspider ]

Re: Seeking map or need advice on making it
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Yes, I finally downloaded and installed GIMP, just so I could change the format of the xcf mapstuff pics. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif I'm following your excellent examples....or trying to, at least. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Seeking map or need advice on making it
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">1. You can use the name instead, like "volcano"

2. The nostart limit was for old Dominions I. There is no limit in Dominions II.

Re: Seeking map or need advice on making it
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">1. You can use the name instead, like "volcano"

2. The nostart limit was for old Dominions I. There is no limit in Dominions II. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">WOOHOO! Thanks SO much! Once again, this game proves to be the most flexible in the history of TBS games http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ January 31, 2004, 13:12: Message edited by: diamondspider ]

Re: Seeking map or need advice on making it
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">1. You can use the name instead, like "volcano"

2. The nostart limit was for old Dominions I. There is no limit in Dominions II. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Yes I have an old memory and sometimes its hard to kep 1 and 2 straight. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

As I remember it, not only could you use the name but you HAD to use it. A problem for me. By any chance did Dom2 change that? Are numbers now useable with sites?

And if I read the MapEdit correct I thought #start was used to set a possible starting position and #specstart was used to lock a nation to one starting position. Doesnt #start randomize the assignments? Great on the no limit but the old almost-programmer in me wouild want to use whichever one creates the shortest list. If its shorter to mark the nostarts then I would do that. If its shorter to mark the starts then that seems a good idea (my maps take forever to come up anyway so any little bit helps)

Re: Seeking map or need advice on making it
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Yup, you MUST use the name of the site. That was just misreading the docs on my part.

I tried #start and unless I flipped 7 heads in a row, it doesn't appear to be random. [would be nice to get confirmation on this, of course http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif ]

Fortunately using #nostart is fairly easy although time consuming and bug-prone since it is easy to forget to click one of the boxes.

Still, most people seem to prefer random games so this shouldn't be a huge issue.

I'm uploading the map now and would love any feedback, suggestions and such on my first effort when (and if) they choose to deem it worthy and post it..

I plan on testing it for several weeks since I'm trying to use asymmetrical balance and that is very hard to achieve. Eventually I'd like to have it so that a strong player who was going to be assigned a random god would have no preference for which of the 2 placements they got dealt.

The goals of the map have expanded to the following uses:

1) Good for new players to practice on since there are no complexities of water and games are relatively short compared with the many larger maps,

2) A balanced game that feels a bit more "chess like" by removing most of the starting luck but still allowing the main *feel* of luck that is part of Dom2 by not overdoing the hard placement of creatures, sites, etc..

3) A game that is small enough to finish in a 3 hourish time-span so nice for a network play session. I wanted it to be just big enough to get some nice strong magic going but not so big as to take longer than one session usually allows time for.

4) For PBEM use, it might be a nice way for newer players to practice via email without worrying about spending weeks in a large game that has long turn cycles and/or getting embarassed about newbie skills.

[ January 31, 2004, 15:07: Message edited by: diamondspider ]

Re: Seeking map or need advice on making it
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Umm...to limit starting locations to 4 (as you stated originally), I think you could just use #start <province number> in 4 provinces on one side of the map, and the same for 4 on the opposite side. In a 2-player game, the computer should place you on opposite sides of the map, in one of the 4 provinces listed as #start locations.?

Re: Seeking map or need advice on making it
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Umm...to limit starting locations to 4 (as you stated originally), I think you could just use #start <province number> in 4 provinces on one side of the map, and the same for 4 on the opposite side. In a 2-player game, the computer should place you on opposite sides of the map, in one of the 4 provinces listed as #start locations.? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">-I went with 2 locations as there wasn't enough room to have 4.

-It SEEMS that #start places the human in the same place every time. Not sure with 2 humans as I haven't tested it MP yet. I'd certainly want it random though and it works perfectly with #nostart.

Re: Seeking map or need advice on making it
 

Where did you upload the map to?

P.S. If anyone's interested, I updated the web image to show the (slow) progress I've been makng:
http://www.techno-mage.com/~targa/webmap.jpg

[ January 31, 2004, 17:55: Message edited by: Targa ]

Re: Seeking map or need advice on making it
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Sent it to Kriss, hopefully he'll post it soon on Illwinter.

It needs a lot of testing for balance purposes and I'll send in a new Version in a few weeks.

Any helpful testers would be appreciated.

Re: Seeking map or need advice on making it
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Wow, that is looking really great!

Are you going to let the sea races go up that river?

Looks like a map I'd really like to try http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: Seeking map or need advice on making it
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Sent it to Kriss, hopefully he'll post it soon on Illwinter.

It needs a lot of testing for balance purposes and I'll send in a new Version in a few weeks.

Any helpful testers would be appreciated. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I dont think Illwinter likes to put up anything not considered finished. If you want to send it to me I can post it so you have a link to refer to here.

Gandalf Parker
-- to email me change the Parker to @community.net

Re: Seeking map or need advice on making it
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Actually, they even have a section for incomplete stuff.

In any case, here it comes!

Re: Seeking map or need advice on making it
 

Here is the link that Gandalf so kindly provided http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

http://www.techno-mage.com/~dominion/Talis.rar

Again, this Version IS DONE. The only change in the next Version will be tweaking to try and make the two sides as perfectly balanced as I can. Since that task is impossible, it probably won't be too different http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ January 31, 2004, 19:58: Message edited by: diamondspider ]

Re: Seeking map or need advice on making it
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Thanks for the encouragement! As Gandalf like's to say..."people don't know how to pay for free stuff anymore". http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif A little positive feedback goes a long way! Not sure about letting sea races go upriver. The provinces will be designated as "river" though. Does that make them able to traverse it?

Good timing too, as I came here to make a post and ask if I should continue with this map, or is no one interested in it. Thanks again.

EDIT: Or are you saying I should make the sea and the lakes #neighbors, so you could jump upriver?

[ January 31, 2004, 19:59: Message edited by: Targa ]

Re: Seeking map or need advice on making it
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Matter of taste, but I would. Otherwise the sea people wouldn't have much access to inland areas at all.

Yeah, I think you map is looking very professional and "offical".

Re: Seeking map or need advice on making it
 

Wow, nice map! Is there any way you can send me the pic without the province borders on it so I can try to rip the mountain grafix out? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Re: Seeking map or need advice on making it
 

Targa and DiamondSpider,
Both of your maps look great. DS what did you use to make yours?

As far as I know "river" just does things like affect resources and events (flooding requires access to water). I dont think a province can actually be both land and water as far as movement.

Re: Seeking map or need advice on making it
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Thanks! I didn't make the graphics, I found them posted on the Wizards of the Coast website as a public domain fan map and liked the look of it.

I also own Campaign Cartographer that can make similar maps, but they do take a long time to make with it as it is a flexible but rough tool.

On the other point, he could give the sea creatures access to the inner water areas just by linking the final sea zone at the delta with the lake!

I think that would be nifty http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Seeking map or need advice on making it
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Yup, I can, need an email addy, or you can get it from the WotC site which might be a few seconds faster http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

I'm a big fan of WotC even though I don't like D&D much (at least not for the Last 10 years).

Hopefully no one will mind this cross-link:

http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/ma...0_dpi_fd9h.jpg

[ January 31, 2004, 20:14: Message edited by: diamondspider ]

Re: Seeking map or need advice on making it
 

OK, map is done but I am having two final problems:

1) Can't find a list of site numbers. Sunray has a great list posted of the sites available but I need the associated numbers!

2) #start is a nice command, but it seems that the starting postions aren't random if it is used. I need confirmation on Gandalf's statement that if I use #nostart 37 times that it will cause a problem. If there is no way to randomize between 2 starting locations it will sink this map idea!?

Re: Seeking map or need advice on making it
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">You ended-up being exactly correct about this. In a map this small it was too hard to go for more than 1 starting province each otherwise the balance got wacked.

Good call.

Re: Seeking map or need advice on making it
 

Update on the slow progress on the new map. The borders aren't carved in stone yet, I was just getting a feel for it. May make the provinces smaller in order to fit a large number of them on the map. Decided to go with a different style of borders rather than being heavy-handed with them.

http://www.techno-mage.com/~targa/webmap.jpg

BTW, this is a horizontal wrap-around map. Currently, I think I have something like 56 layers in Photoshop. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[ February 01, 2004, 15:56: Message edited by: Targa ]

Re: Seeking map or need advice on making it
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Best looking map I've every seen pratically. Very realistic on the "natural" feel.

I found that making the provinces bigger worked fine as they are about 2x bigger than "standard" on my map, but it plays great (I actually prefer a more spacious feel).

I don't personally like wrap-around, but obviously that is nothing more than preference. In some ways it is more fair, but it seems unrealistic (be a pretty small planet to be able to walk across it in a year or two http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif ) and it is nice to have edges as defensive strategies become more viable.

I love the idea of sea races to be able to make it up into the fresh water. Were you planning on supporting that?

[ February 01, 2004, 16:00: Message edited by: diamondspider ]

Re: Seeking map or need advice on making it
 

That Wizards link was great. Walking thru their archives was interesting also.
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/mw/20040101a

If we can get some more map images to get cut-n-paste icons from it would help. And Im still holding out for finding some old RPG game with a random map generator in almost the same style.

Re: Seeking map or need advice on making it
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Yeah, and the Campaign Cartographer site has LOTS more. The only problem is that there might be issues with using the Cartographer maps is that they reserve copyright on the individual images. Doubt they'd care though.

My only problem with a random map generator is, well obviously, that it is random.

I've designed about 60 maps for my campaigns over the years, and they are a lot of work to make look realistic. I'd hate to think that a program could ever come close http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: Seeking map or need advice on making it
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">No questions here, the typical random generator does a very simple job (there are people out there who do a reasonably good job of writing programs that create "realistic" planets, but a night's quick search didn't reveal any that made them available for free on top of that). But what a random generator can do, is provide you with an endless list of possible maps. Hand-made maps can look great, but they're a lot of work, and require dedicated people with some talent.

I believe there's room for both. Plus, if we managed to make the random generators more user-friendly, it might become a help to the "hand" map designers.

Re: Seeking map or need advice on making it
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">No questions here, the typical random generator does a very simple job (there are people out there who do a reasonably good job of writing programs that create "realistic" planets, but a night's quick search didn't reveal any that made them available for free on top of that). But what a random generator can do, is provide you with an endless list of possible maps. Hand-made maps can look great, but they're a lot of work, and require dedicated people with some talent.

I believe there's room for both. Plus, if we managed to make the random generators more user-friendly, it might become a help to the "hand" map designers. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Yup... Just personal preference. I've always been a sucker for eye-candy and I'd much prefer to play a map that looked great to one that didn't; even if the one that didn't was tactically superior for the most part.

However, I totally agree that since everyone isn't that way, there is room for both http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

For those who can't draw, or don't have time to do full maps, yet want to make them, another solution is to keep an archive of 10-20 maps that don't have lines marking them yet and to use one tga to make many Dom2 maps.

For example, the one Targa is working on, if he'd keep one without marks on it, could be used to create several cool different feels e.g. wraparound, no sea, lots of sea, big provinces, small provinces, etc. etc.. Same goes for that one that was by a D&D fan that I used.

[ February 01, 2004, 17:21: Message edited by: diamondspider ]

Re: Seeking map or need advice on making it
 

To reply w/o quoting (too lazy):

Thanks for the comment on how good it's looking! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif Actually, I was thinking of making several Versions, since I'm putting so much time and effort into it. I can make one where sea-races can "swim upriver" (ie: all water provinces border each other), I can make one non-wraparound, another wraparound, etc... I decided on the wraparound because being on or near an edge gives a player an unfair advantage over those who start somewhere in the middle. Though even with a non-wrap Version I'll likely be using the #nostart option.

As for random map generators...that's what created the base map that I'm using. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif Yes, I'm also trying to collect cut-and-paste map icons. My goal is to eventually be able to provide the community with:

1) A wide variety of pastable map icons.
2) A "coastline" random map generator. (well, not myself, but Phil and Gandalf).
3) A tutorial + Photoshop tutorial explaining the whole process from start to finish.

What I did was to run DomMap until I saw a landmass/watermass shape I liked, then saved the random seed number from it. Changed the command-line switches to slightly alter the appearance until I got what I wanted. Used Photoshop to delete all the color information, province borders, and capitol dots (just saving the outlines of land/water). I have 1600x1200 "beige cloth" and "blue cloth" files that I use for the backgrounds. Working with layers in Photoshop makes it relatively easy.

Oh, and as far as province size goes...I would like to keep them small enough to make a map suitable for a large number of players, but may also make a Version with larger provinces for fewer players. If anyone has any requests (as far as how many players) I'd be happy to add them to my to-do list. Are alot of people still playing Aran map? Need more 2-4 player maps? Smaller maps would, of course, be faster to make. Hmm...that's an idea...

[ February 01, 2004, 18:40: Message edited by: Targa ]

Re: Seeking map or need advice on making it
 

Yes, I'm a big fan of smaller maps.

Why?

1) it is a pain in the neck finding many people who will actually stay around for a game requiring 10+ hours of time,

2) after about turn 40, the micromanagement can get pretty painful in this game, how much more fun is it really to have a few huge spells but spend so much time twiddling with troops?

3) this game, I find, can be very exciting when played on small maps with fewer players, so why hassle with 1 and 2 above when a few players, faster cycles, and less micromanagement is not only possible, but very fun in its own right.

So, long story short, yes, I request a smaller Version (or simply larger territory areas) of your excellent map!

P.S. as a little aside, I just got done playing a 1v1 game on a 39 province map. On turn 18 I got near the enemy capital (played by another human in a network game) and we managed to crash the game due to him having about 20 skeleton summoning C'tis mages. In my mind, this shows that smaller maps are more reasonable since it is currently so easy to exceed the army max and crash the game.

[ February 01, 2004, 22:41: Message edited by: diamondspider ]

Re: Seeking map or need advice on making it
 

Just add to the discussion..
Here are some examples of the 3 map-making scripts in GIMP
http://www.techno-mage.com/~dominion...ects/gimp1.jpg
http://www.techno-mage.com/~dominion...ects/gimp2.jpg
http://www.techno-mage.com/~dominion...ects/gimp3.jpg

GIMP is a powerful free paint program used by many programmers (including the developers of Dom2). These scripts generate random maps. Changing the settings is easy. Changing the color pattern is possible but it involves playing with the palette. Creating a gradient palette which it does make fairly easy after you play with it abit. I could switch to automatically creating these instead of the DomMap stuff except these dont fill my needs. Im not patient enough to add the rest.

GIMP does have layers capability and edging tools which I think could be used to trace borders around major color areas. Then it would just be dividing the areas that are still too big, and adding the white pixel to each. I offer this option to you people to play with because its heading in the wrong direction for me at the moment.

[ February 01, 2004, 23:41: Message edited by: Gandalf Parker ]

Re: Seeking map or need advice on making it
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Wow, that is really impressive. Particularly the first two.

Certainly a lot easier than hand drawing all of that coastline! (I've done it so I know!).

Anyway, yes, I have GIMP and might just try that stuff out http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Thanks Gandalf!

Re: Seeking map or need advice on making it
 

Wow, very interesting fractal on this one:
http://www.techno-mage.com/~dominion...ects/gimp2.jpg

I love the way it came out looking like a topo map. With enough experimentation....who knows how good they might be "right out of the box", so-to-speak.

Re: Seeking map or need advice on making it
 

OK I played with that generator abit. Made a new Version of its palette adding some mountain colors on the end. Played with the numbers. Anyway it didnt take long to get this...
http://www.techno-mage.com/~dominion...ects/gimp4.jpg

Re: Seeking map or need advice on making it
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Not bad... I'd change the sea portion of the palette so that it moved quickly to a deep blue, so as to leave mostly light blue/white along the shores, then move to a deeper blue that would be mostly uniform in the seas.

Re: Seeking map or need advice on making it
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">That is a pretty nice base. In my own mind, it completes about 15% of the work though.

Very nice start, but the inner terrain is always time consuming if you want a "professional" look.

STILL, the coastline is always a real boring pain to do and isn't nearly as fun as the terrain, so it is a GREAT thing to automate http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Whatever Targa did to get him map looking like that will probably be needed in any case. I like his idea of having a tutorial on how he did it.

Maybe he has ideas on how to tweak the automated process to cut out a step or two?

[ February 02, 2004, 14:45: Message edited by: diamondspider ]

Re: Seeking map or need advice on making it
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Not really. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif The only thing that I can think of that would be of any use to the Dom community as of this moment would be for someone to figure out how to compile Phil's DomMap2 to run in an MS Windows environment.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Well, that's kinda like comparing apples and oranges. Unless someone were to code a very complex and powerful program, you'll never get maps that look like Aran from an automatic map generator. So as for "whatever I did to get my map looking like that", it's alot of tedious work by hand, and only "needed" if you want the map to look similar to the maps that came with the game. Phil and Gandalf's priorities are geared more toward Dommap and auto-generation, which doesn't lend itself to the "hand-drawn" look. Gandalf has mentioned (IIRC) that he's been generating random maps in the hopes that people will use them as a base for their own customization/artwork.

Gandalf and I have discussed the possibility of me supplying him with some command-line switches for DomMap2, and he running off a batch of random maps, but we need to coordinate "machine time", since he has other things going on. I sorta left that conversation in limbo...I guess I could get back to it. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

As for a tutorial, I'm not sure how many Photoshop Users there are here, and if there are, how many would be willing to go through the time-consuming process of mapmaking. If there's enough of a demand for it, I'll write one. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Seeking map or need advice on making it
 

OK its not an auto-run yet but check out the 02Feb files here
http://www.techno-mage.com/~dominion...ndomMaps/junk/

I have the script making those referr to them as "blanks". There is actually a .tga and a .map file for each with all the #terrain and #neighbor commands. There are still some randoms being done such as how many provinces and how much water but those could be locked down to absolute numbers if you wanted. Is this what you guys had in mind?

[ February 02, 2004, 18:36: Message edited by: Gandalf Parker ]

Re: Seeking map or need advice on making it
 

Alot of those look really good as templates! It looks like you may need to tweak the 'shore cost', as a few of them have land province borders bleeding into the sea. Also (using the first pic as an example), I'd experiment with ruggedness between 1.4 - 1.7 or so...enough to eliminate the hundreds of tiny islands, as it would be very difficult to work with otherwise. But yeah....those are looking really good!

That's basically what I've been doing with DomMap. Running off a bunch of pics similar to those until I see a shape I like. Of course, yours are so much better to work with, since they can be way larger than 800x599, and have the corresponding .map files that work with Dom2. I haven't been playing with province numbers, since I've been doing the borders by hand. I've found that no matter what setting I used, DomMap would always end up giving me some province shapes I disliked. Although now that I think about it, since the capitals are what counts, the borders can be made "flexible".

Once I get a map I like the looks of, I copy the seed from the map file, paste it into a batch file, and adjust the other parameters to tweak it.
Here's my "base" switches:
-d 0 -pl 15 -nl 260 -tc 900 -sa 2 -ns 25 -ss 55 -wl 30 -ls 25 -r 1.7

Those get varied a bunch when I get a shape I like though.

The only thing that I see that would need to be modified (other than sprucing up the map with graphics) is that the map file generated by DomMap2 also has terrain info, doesn't it? For example, the pics at the bottom of that page, with the different colors on the land, are showing plains, mountains, etc... If you start with a "basic blank" (all brown) like the top ones, you'd have to add terrain info thru Dom2 map editor (not that that's a big deal).

[ February 02, 2004, 19:26: Message edited by: Targa ]