Can I make this forum sort the "normal" way?
 

I'm way more used to having the original thread at the beginning, and this forum is totally against the grain. I've looked at my profile and can't find an option for the default thread view.

Thanks for the help! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Can I make this forum sort the "normal" way?
 

Not really, but you get used to it. A quasi-workaround is to use the "printer-friendly view"

~Aldin

Re: Can I make this forum sort the "normal" way?
 

I don't get used to it, especially after browsing other forums. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/rolleyes.gif

It's like playing Dominions. You think you know a game, and suddenly something happens to surprise you...

Re: Can I make this forum sort the "normal" way?
 

Same here. The way you have to scroll down first just to scroll back up again cracks me up...

Re: Can I make this forum sort the "normal" way?
 

Yes, and the fact that you naturally read top to bottom usually makes it more natural to continue reading the next post that way.

Also, if there is a particularly busy thread, so you got to the second page to read where you left off, and then someone Posts while you're reading that page... Well, when you go to the first page to continue reading, because of the new post, one of the Posts that used to be on the first page will get pushed to the second, and you will therefore completely miss it.

Definitely poor design. I'm not sure what the Shrapnel guys were thinking.

Anyone else wish there was a way to know what the Last post is that you read in a thread? I have to skim through Posts until I find one that looks familiar. Ick.

Re: Can I make this forum sort the "normal" way?
 

Yes, reading this forum can be very annoying. Maybe someone from Shrapnel give us some *rational* explanation why they made forum this way (they are extremely stubborn about this backward design, no matter what Users say).

Re: Can I make this forum sort the "normal" way?
 

This is another one of those topics (similar to "is this game worth the price?") that seems to pop up every few days. Yep, the Messages are listed backwards in relation to every other forum on the planet. No, you can't change it. Why? I have no idea. Someone changed a UBB option in the way the forums are setup, and it's not user-controllable. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

Re: Can I make this forum sort the "normal" way?
 

Shrapnel claims that most Users like it, once they've gotten used to it. So apparantly the folks over at the space empires IV forum and on the other game forums like it. I don't have any problems with the current setup, it took a while to get used to but now I find it convenient.

[ January 31, 2004, 15:32: Message edited by: johan osterman ]

Re: Can I make this forum sort the "normal" way?
 

Any argument they make won't sound "reasonable" to everyone. So it doesn't matter what they say because someone will say "but ...". Maybe it will be changed in the future, maybe not. I do know that Shrapnel will respond to Users (from personal experience) if you ask right and they feel it's a good suggestion.

Re: Can I make this forum sort the "normal" way?
 

It should really be an option to sort either way.

Saying something like "every other forum" (or even "99%") sorts the other way is an exaggeration.

With a popular forum with a lot of topic drift, this reverse sort order can be convenient, particularly if you re-check threads often.

Personally, I think that now I'm used to it, I rather prefer this sort order, particularly to busy forums where reading the latest thread means re-reading page 1 of a very long old thread, and having to find the "page 17" link and having to scroll down to find the latest comment.

On the other hand, ideally I think if I had the option, I might choose forward-sorting, but having the initial view be the bottom of the thread.

PvK

Re: Can I make this forum sort the "normal" way?
 

Shrapnel didnt write the software we are in. Its Ultimate BBS Classic 6.6.1 written in Perl. I dont know what it does and doesnt support but if anyone feels like finding that out then http://www.ubbcentral.com/ is the site to visit. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Can I make this forum sort the "normal" way?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">No it's not. Every other forum I have ever seen in the past six or seven years has been downward-sorting. I have never, ever seen another forum, of dozens and dozens, that sorted down-up instead of up-down. Why Shrapnel keeps things this way simply surpasses comprehension.

Has anyone else ever seen another forum that does this?

Re: Can I make this forum sort the "normal" way?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I imagine they keep it this way because it's considerably easier to read. You aren't required to guess which page has the most recent Posts on it. It's still quite inferior to usenet, but it's better than most other forums.

Re: Can I make this forum sort the "normal" way?
 

You can put me in the "Don't like it" column too, as if anyone cares.

It offends me not because it is difficult to read (it is), but because it's inefficient. At a minimum, it doubles the amount of work you have to do to read a thread: scroll down to a post, scroll through it, scroll back up through what you just scrolled through to the next post, rinse and repeat. Bah.

I'm confused as to Graeme's "guess which page has the most recent Posts" comment. If a thread has six pages, the most recent are either on page one or page six, depending on whether the forum is forward or backward reading. Where would the mystery be in either case?

Re: Can I make this forum sort the "normal" way?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">The LAST one. Not that hard. :/

Re: Can I make this forum sort the "normal" way?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">The LAST one. Not that hard. :/ </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">But it doesn't necessarily have the Last message you read on it, so there's just as much guessing here. You can also always just read the Messages in backwards order.

Re: Can I make this forum sort the "normal" way?
 

Readin the thread in backwards order is stupid. Many people refer to previous threads, so you have to scroll down in order to start reading. Dumb...

Re: Can I make this forum sort the "normal" way?
 

I am also not fond of these upside down threads. People have told me repeatedly that I'd get used to it. But they all lied...

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">That's why good forum software has a little button that takes you to the Last unread post.

Re: Can I make this forum sort the "normal" way?
 

The forum sorting is retarded and contributes to the games already steep learning curve.

Its back asswards and to say otherwise is just being sycophantic.

Why in the hell hasnt it been fixed?

NO other forum I have ever read is like this. None. Zero.

olaf

Re: Can I make this forum sort the "normal" way?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Maybe they don't consider it broken so it has no intention of being fixed.

Making statements like that though is less likely to initiate change.

Edit: And for me personally it makes answering your constant questions easier for me going Last post to first, so I know if it's been answered by someone already so I don't have to.

[ February 01, 2004, 08:57: Message edited by: Zen ]

Re: Can I make this forum sort the "normal" way?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">In normal forum if you stopped read on page 5, new Posts will always start here. Also you can just create shortcut to Last page and jump to end easily. On sharpnel forum you have no idea where you were Last time and must search for known post.

Re: Can I make this forum sort the "normal" way?
 

Xom hit it right no the head. Shrapnelgames we love ya, but this forum thing is pissing us off.

Re: Can I make this forum sort the "normal" way?
 

yup, i hate it too.

Re: Can I make this forum sort the "normal" way?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">And also why good software allows the user to select normal, or backwards, listing ... rather than cramming a preference down everyone's throats like it or not. And also gives you the option to display 10, 20, 50, 100, or more Posts per page. I'd rather scroll than load page after page after ...

[ February 01, 2004, 15:00: Message edited by: Arryn ]

Re: Can I make this forum sort the "normal" way?
 

Put me down on the "I hate it" list too.

I browse 20+ forums a day and trying to "change gears" in this forum is a constant irritant for me.

Re: Can I make this forum sort the "normal" way?
 

Post over in the Shrapnel Games forum regarding this, as they seem to be reading and responding there. http://www.shrapnelgames.com/cgi-bin...;f=67;t=000024

If it's that annoying, I suggest someone start a poll thread over there, post a link in all the other forums, and let the majority decide.

[ February 01, 2004, 16:20: Message edited by: Targa ]

Re: Can I make this forum sort the "normal" way?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Let the majority decide what? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
Get a majority opinion maybe but unless the present software has an option for reversing that then I dont think it would matter much.
Even reversing it with this software might mean dumping all of the discussions so far. Definetly if new software had to be used.

One of the pros and cons of using newsGroups instead of web-forums. Each user can decide how they want to see newsGroups. The disadvantage is that so few Users can find newsGroups.

Re: Can I make this forum sort the "normal" way?
 

According to Tiltowait, in the other thread, is is possible with this software.

Re: Can I make this forum sort the "normal" way?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Maybe they don't consider it broken so it has no intention of being fixed.

Making statements like that though is less likely to initiate change.

Edit: And for me personally it makes answering your constant questions easier for me going Last post to first, so I know if it's been answered by someone already so I don't have to. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Well you are right, the way I phrased my question doesnt it make it more likely to be answered. But damn, its frustrating.

Because it is broken, no question about it. At least in the sense that it works differently from pretty much every other forum out there.

I like your little dig at me that you added in. Did it make you feel better? I think you are kidding yourself if you think that sorting Posts in the reverse order they are posted helps anyone follow the discussion though.

olaf

Re: Can I make this forum sort the "normal" way?
 

Reminds me a bit of the old debate regarding the Dvorak keyboard.

"But it allow people to type 50-100% faster!"

"Yeah, but it will never happen because then everyone will have to relearn to type."

Sorry, but no way does reading in reverse save even 10%. How hard it is to click on the "2" for a two page post and scroll down? Not very. And whose to say that you want to start reading the Last post anyway? What about the many threads you want to read straight through?

[ February 01, 2004, 16:47: Message edited by: diamondspider ]

Re: Can I make this forum sort the "normal" way?
 

The forum setup sucks mad donkey ballz, I also vote for making it normal ;p

Re: Can I make this forum sort the "normal" way?
 

Although Shrapnel looks like they're alone in the galaxy with this newest-first order, but I happen to like it and am now angered with all those stupid forums requiring you to click on p 3, 5, 45 or whatever (depends on topic !) to just know what has been said recently ! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon8.gif
Who sets his mail reader to put new mail at the bottom anyway ? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/rolleyes.gif

Re: Can I make this forum sort the "normal" way?
 

I did, until recently, before I had clicked to the "Date" column... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/blush.gif

...

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif I really felt dumb! You should ask, who would CHOOSE to put their newest mail to the bottom!

Re: Can I make this forum sort the "normal" way?
 

I also admit that Ive gotten used to it. and find it comfortable. I have a couple of my email programs also showing newest first. Everything has its pros and cons.

There are web-forum programs which make it easier to keep track of whats new, what you have already read and replied to, and in my opinion look nicer. But I dont know if they cost money and Im sure they have a higher overhead in machine CPU so Im not sure I could recommend them for here. Especially if we lose access to all the previous conversations.

[ February 02, 2004, 16:03: Message edited by: Gandalf Parker ]

Re: Can I make this forum sort the "normal" way?
 

I've been around here longer than most, except PvK who must have been born here http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif , and still can't get used to this format. I often catch myslef clicking on the highest numbered page to find the most recent Posts. Never have seen it this way on any other forum either. Shrapnel really needs to upgrade to something used by the rest of the world.

Re: Can I make this forum sort the "normal" way?
 

I prefer newest-first but, as always, I think the best way is to allow people their own choosing. I've seen BBS software that permits that, so I'd like to see that implimented. Barring that, I guess I'd have to vote for what I personally prefer, which is the way it is now.

Re: Can I make this forum sort the "normal" way?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I know that the forum software used at stardestroyer.net is free of charge, but I don't know what kind of server requirements it has.

Re: Can I make this forum sort the "normal" way?
 

When I first found these forums, recently I may add. It took me perhaps 10 minutes to realize what was going on. During those 10 minutes I figured everyone on these Boards was either A) on Crack or B) From some foreign country where people talk backwards ;p

And I concur, I hate the setup. Often times I don't even bother going to the front of a post, I just read them normally and try to sort things out with my extraordinary brain /nod ;p

Re: Can I make this forum sort the "normal" way?
 

I've gotten used to it, but I don't think it's an improvement compared to normal sorting.

I think you should follow the standard unless there are very good reasons not to.

Re: Can I make this forum sort the "normal" way?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">No it's not. Every other forum I have ever seen in the past six or seven years has been downward-sorting. I have never, ever seen another forum, of dozens and dozens, that sorted down-up instead of up-down. Why Shrapnel keeps things this way simply surpasses comprehension.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Apparently it does surpass several people's comprehension, at least. Folks from Shrapnel have explained it before though, and there is a reason, if not one that you folks will ever agree with. It should be an option, ideally, and I'm sure it would be if it were easy enough, since it's been discussed many times before. They have a lot to do, though, and the gaming business takes precendence over conformity on message sort order, which also makes some sense, at least to me.

Quote:

Has anyone else ever seen another forum that does this?

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Yes. For example, the one at this link.

PvK

Re: Can I make this forum sort the "normal" way?
 

I think the vote doesnt provide enough answers. Is it taking for granted that we will have to start over with a blank forum or not?

In general I think the wording of the poll and especially the post sending us there is maybe alittle biased, maybe alitle rude, definetly opinionionated. Not a bad thing, being opinionated. As long as it doesnt try to paint a picture of some large agreeing crowd behind it.

[ February 03, 2004, 13:30: Message edited by: Gandalf Parker ]

Re: Can I make this forum sort the "normal" way?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">This a pretty arbitrary and patronizing way of expressing your opinion http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/rolleyes.gif .
In the same vein, send your grandma's resume to apply for IW website design. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif
I particularly HATE sentences like <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">: if IW or Shrapnel wanted to do that they'll publish crappy childish RTS or FPS http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif , never will Dominions ever nave been born !

Re: Can I make this forum sort the "normal" way?
 

Vote here : http://www.shrapnelgames.com/cgi-bin...;f=67;t=000040

The poll has been in effect for some time already. It has nothing to do with me or my opinion. Thank you.

Re: Can I make this forum sort the "normal" way?
 

"If IW or Shrapnel wanted to do that they'll publish crappy childish RTS or FPS , never will Dominions ever nave been born !"

I don't see why. A company doesnt have to look like a low budgetted amateurish company to produce great games. My words may seem a bit hard, but I fear that's actually how it looks right now. They created a great product and there is lot of money to be made with it. In my opinion, I don't think the game needs more races, spells or items. What it needs right now, to appeal to a greater mass and become a real success, is an improved interface, website and better sonor effects and graphics.

Re: Can I make this forum sort the "normal" way?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">If your grandmother is as good at soundeffects and 3d graphics as she is at web design, be sure to tell her to give us a call, especially if she is frugal, virtuous and enjoys working for uncertain compensation.

Re: Can I make this forum sort the "normal" way?
 

I'm very sorry if you were offended by my post. And I admit that for the better graphics and sound effect, it's too late for Dom2 and anyhow, you seem to be on the right track already. Dom2 is a huge improvement over Dom1.

But the interface got some really nagging problems(mostly mentioned by other people in other treads) and the website... you have to admit we have seen better. I don't say it should be as sumptuous as http://www.knights-of-honor.net with their full time webmaster and professional web designers. But something looking reasonably nice and functional, like your fansite http://www.dominionsx.com/.

Re: Can I make this forum sort the "normal" way?
 

"This is Internet. You can find anything. If you search, and dont find it, then you found a hole. Fill it. This is Internet"

Actually, having been a strong suggstor in areas involving illwinters site from the first days of Dom1 I have to say they have made 200% improvement.

You know the Dominions2 domain names are still available. Im sure that searches for Dominions2 are occurring continually. Instead of "suggesting" that someone else do it maybe you could take a stab at it? Even make alittle money on the side.

Re: Can I make this forum sort the "normal" way?
 

Our website is a temporary solution that enables us to quickly add things ourselves without having to learn how to make nice pages. I prefer to spend the few hours I have after work on Dominions rather than on web pages.

WraCTale (the dominionsx guy) made an example of a nice page for us, but I do not believe we could change it when needed. We're not very skilled in that area. Thus we went with the simplistic look. I consider our page more of a support page while Shrapnel's is a PR page. Their page is quite nice.

Re: Can I make this forum sort the "normal" way?
 

I often wonder if the people who come to this forum think that 2 Swedes who work normal jobs and a few family members and other people all with the same name (Go Johans!) are suddenly lumped into the same Category as multi-million dollar companies.

Is it past every internet Users comprehension that not every game is built different? Shrapnel and Illwinter are NOT Blizzard, get used to it. Understand it, accept them for what they are and maybe you can provide helpful suggestions instead of ludicrious ones that while you feel are 'good suggestions' are not feasible.

Give 'em an inch, they take a mile.

Re: Can I make this forum sort the "normal" way?
 

Actually, I don't think it's common knowledge, unless you read this forum long enough. It seems that there are quite a few readers who don't fully understand who/what Illwinter is all about. To quote J.O. from another thread:

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Unless/until this becomes common knowledge, people will continue to request "improvements" to things that Illwinter has neither the time nor resources to implement. Perhaps the "about Illwinter" web page should make some note of this?

On another note, as I look at "a typical day at Illwinter" here:
http://www.illwinter.com/illwork.jpg
The first thought that pops into my head is "Where's that map?!!" http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif Kris: That looks awesome!!! Was it ever finished and released? Did I miss it somewhere?