Flagellant Atral 9 blessing
 

Did the one shoot protection get bLasted by a repel attack ? it seems hard to see in battle...

(for thoses interested my hords of dea.. holyness are ASTRAL 9 FIRE 9 NATURE 4 blessed, add the basic outpost, dominion 7 and have fun producing large amount of blessed killers.... )

Also If I empower my god did it change the blessing ? I think not but would like confirmation.

Re: Flagellant Atral 9 blessing
 

Blessings are hardcoded into the initial paths of your pretender. So empowering/dying doesn't affect your blessing, it remains the same.

Re: Flagellant Atral 9 blessing
 

And for the more important, repel ?

Re: Flagellant Atral 9 blessing
 

I don't even know what your question is.

Re: Flagellant Atral 9 blessing
 

I don't believe so. I don't think a repel is counted as an attack but rather an effect of a failed attack.

Re: Flagellant Atral 9 blessing
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Actually, if the repel works there is no attack at all. Only if the repel fails can the defender attempt to strike the attacker.

Re: Flagellant Atral 9 blessing
 

What he's asking is if the repel attempt wins and it inflicts damage, that he loses his Twisted Fate. I believe (but am not sure) that if you attack, and someone repels you, it's not counted as an attack per say so the Twisted Fate effect does not fire and you will get hit for some damage.

I'm not 100% but with the testing I've done with repel, it seems correct.

Re: Flagellant Atral 9 blessing
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I believe you're right. IW replied in a different thread that a repel is not treated in the code as a normal attack so it should not trigger attack-related effects. But they weren't 100% sure of this. Still, the guy who wrote the code is probably right, even if his memory is weak. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Flagellant Atral 9 blessing
 

So, basically Twisted Fate, wont help my flagellant so much http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

They have a rather short weapon IIRC and can pretty well get killed by repel... And they are still decimated by bowfire, even if they do seems to survive a bit longer I am not 100% sure, some testing needed here.

Of course when come time to hand to hand they are decimating armoured infantry and knight ranks... and are far more cheaper...

Perhaps the Water Blessing could have been a better choice... if at all.

Currently I am Baphomet, Drain 3, Heat 1, Fire 9, Astral 9, Nature 4, Dominion 7, outpost. ( 10 points left to rot I would love to take as 50 starting golds or even 10 research points ).

Anyother design for another blessing effect ? Oracle probably... FoB is ruled out because I just dont like using blood magic.

Re: Flagellant Atral 9 blessing
 

Twisted Fate helps your Flag's immensely. Though if you are adverse to just the Twisted Fate aspect, you might look at a semi-decent Air Blessing in order to stop all arrowfire. Though you are still going to run into the problem of having no armor and being chewed up by most other units out there.

Flags with a 9 Water blessing are decent, but I would more than likely stick to a Fire 9 Blessing so they are able to punch through most armors and hit a bit of the time. Use them as flankers and stopgap units, not as standard troops. Only use them if you need a powerful flank but don't mind taking a significant loss for it.

Re: Flagellant Atral 9 blessing
 

In the combat sim, the best Flagellant blessing is Water 9, and the best dual is Water 9/Astral 9. Of course, that's melee only, and in a fight that has many projectiles you'll find Astral 9 or Air 9 to be more useful than Water.

Re: Flagellant Atral 9 blessing
 

In my opinion the best blessed troops are these from pythium:

Battle Vestal

Water 9
Fire 9
Astral 9

Pretender: Oracle
Dominion: 9

luck 1 and the rest to the bad 3 (heat 3)

Thist troops are really killers to all non-arrow troops.

The combination of Defence 19(!) and Twisted Fate is a really good defence!

Flame Weapons (they have to do more damage) + a good attack (16) + quickness are dangerous enough for even the hardest in close combat.

I've no problems to recruit 9 each turn (only 15 gold and 4 res.!) and this is enough to handle 50 men-troops (knights, haevy cavalry and haevy infantry) very easy.

I play this combination in a mp game started 3 weeks ago and i'm top 1 with this in moment.

Great Problem: Every Javalin or Arrow is a kryptonite

[ February 04, 2004, 08:04: Message edited by: calmon ]

Re: Flagellant Atral 9 blessing
 

MY personal favorite double bless nation/theme is ... wait for it.

Jotun Woodsmen with Death 9, Nature 9.

The trick is being able to get up that high without crippling your research. But I've found it to be very effective.

But when using that particular blessing combination the Woodsmen are particularly nasty, long Lasting and have a good survival rate. Especially if you include them in normal squads of Giant Spear Huskarl.

Re: Flagellant Atral 9 blessing
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">So if I understand things correctly, they'd have the following:
</font>

• <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Berserk +3</font>
• <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Regeneration</font>
• <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Poison Resistance 50%</font>
• <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Fear -3</font>
• <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Life after Death</font>

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">?

Re: Flagellant Atral 9 blessing
 

Yes. And it's Lesser Fear -1 while living, Cause Fear +3 when undead.

Re: Flagellant Atral 9 blessing
 

so switching the nature 4 for an air 4 could do the trick ?

Well it make sense and will help my mages too. Even paladin are better without bezerk. And as flagellant are more usually killed than bezerked http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

Of course adding a Death 4 Air 4 could be pretty potent... or even Air9, is it possible to get a Marignon triple bless not too crippling ?

Re: Flagellant Atral 9 blessing
 

And you feel that the Death-9 effects are better than the Water-9 for these? (A problem with Nature-9/Water-9, of course, is Jotun doesn't get starting gem sites with both Nature and Water together.) I presume you play Iron Woods or Utgard since they both have Nature + Death starting gem sites?

Re: Flagellant Atral 9 blessing
 

Depending on what you are trying to do. I'd stick with 2 blessings. I don't know exactly how you're playing now so I couldn't comment http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif . Air 4 will give you 20 Air Shield while Death 4 will give you Lesser Fear -1. It's all in how you want and if you want to pour everything you have into blessings http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: Flagellant Atral 9 blessing
 

I use Utgard. I prefer their mages overall. And depending on what pretender you use (I prefer the Master Lich) it can be modified.

The important thing to remember is to take Order 3, or you won't be able to build the required numbers of Jotun to survive. Also with Utgard you can make Nature items, with the kind of scales you are choosing, being able to make extra supply items is vital as well as having some leaders who can command undead. Also it's nice to have a Norna around to stop some of those nasty misfortune events.

Re: Flagellant Atral 9 blessing
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">We think entirely too much alike. I, too, prefer the seithkona to vaetti hags. And I almost always take Order+3 with Jotuns. But, since I've yet to ever play a dual-bless game, I've tended towards the Son of Niefel or Wyrm as my pretender (nice as SCs, and they fit better if you're trying to "role-play" the game rather than tweak for max gain).

I've learned so much about Dom just in the past 24 hours ...

I'll have to start a new Jotun game and play with this concept a bit. Sounds most intriguing!

Thanks http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Flagellant Atral 9 blessing
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">One hot tip when using a Death 9 blessing is to get hold of a Jade Maiden province as soon as possible. The nightmare is already "Causes Fear +0" and when blessed will have this increased by your fear bonus.

For the best blessed unit, I'm partial to Daoine Sidhe with an Astral 9 blessing. Prot 13, Def 15, Glamour and Twisted fate; and for bonus points they're sneaky and equipped with javelins (with Strength 12 and Precision 12 so they actually do some damage with them too.) They just don't die.

Re: Flagellant Atral 9 blessing
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I played about a dozen turns with this, but wasn't overly impressed. It wasn't bad, but I thought it should be better. So I tried a Son of Niefel with Nature-9/Water-9 and it appears to be working much better. With D9 I was losing 1-2 woodsmen per turn in the early battles (please bear in mind that I set indies to 7). With W9 instead, I haven't lost any. The +4 defense keeps more of my troops alive, and the extra attacks from Quickness dishes out damage faster so the enemy routs sooner.

I'd overlooked blessing strategies prior to this thread. Now I'm a convert. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Flagellant Atral 9 blessing
 

Followup: I just fought a tough battle against some indies that I won solely due to the dual-bless.

My forces -

1 Herse
1 Gode (prophet)
8 jot axe
10 jot woodsmen

Indies

1 mounted commander
1 commander
26 crossbowmen
21 heavy cav

1st round the crossbows score at least 6-8 hits on my concentrated force. 2nd round the heavily armored horsemen slam into my ranks, killing 2 woodsmen and an axeman. 3rd round another 2 woodsmen and an axeman fall beneath the slashing swords of the cavalry, while my dwindling attackers acquit themselves of a half-dozen of their mounted foe. 4th round the crossbows fire again, scoring a lucky strike on my prophet who then turns away, thus demoralizing my entire army and beginning a general rout. However, 5 of the woodsmen and the herse are also struck in the same barrage and they go berserk! These maniacally-brave, fanatically loyal followers of the King of Kings, Lord of Winter, and Prince of Rivers proceed to mop up the remaining heathens, heedless of their own casualties and outnumbered at least five to one, righteous fury filling their hearts. Another trio of woodsmen fall before the unbelievers finally succumb to the relentless onslaught of giants avenging their fallen comrades, the pitiful few heathen survivors fleeing into a nearby forest. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Re: Flagellant Atral 9 blessing
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Well, surely it's very efficient at expansion vs indies, but I'd be surprised this could Last long in a MP...
You should get decimated as soon as another player attacks with a missile army and some magic... With all those crappy scales you'd be broke, with units suffering form heat, unrest everywhere, research going nowhere (Drain 3 means a Theurg has 3 RP...). Will Pythium become Ermor ? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif
But maybe I'm wrong, I hope that for you ... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

Re: Flagellant Atral 9 blessing
 

ok,

I'd made major change and now I get a:

Fire 9
Water 9
Astral 9
Air 6

blessing, with a Dom 7 and outpost castle.

The added bonus of a quickened astral/fire mage into my flagellant swarm army is impressive, at least in solo.

Of course I am producing nearly nothing, have research -3 ( but still 34 http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif ). But flagellant being dirt cheap and able to be produced in every castle with a temple...

I am gonna try some more but perhaps a Earth 6 blessing would have been better.. or a mix with Death...

[ February 06, 2004, 16:12: Message edited by: IKerensky ]

Re: Flagellant Atral 9 blessing
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">The turmoil scale does not cause unrest.

Re: Flagellant Atral 9 blessing
 

Well some point:

Low gold, low ressource due to scale : dont matter if your blessed troups are cheap Flagellant or Vestal.

Heat: Good thing for Marignon fire based spells and summons.

Drain: dont matter too much either, your pretender is obligatorily an oracle, a fountain of blood or a Baphomet thus a still reearcher, wich with the 3x9 magic and more rocket at 34+ research skill basic.. 34-3 is still enough until you manage to get some indies researcher .. or craft some research tools.

Misfortune: the hardest trouble as there will be many many attack on your territories... but you still havent too many choice... keep some troups into your capital.

Death: the one I dont took.. or not too much. Death is not so bad, as before the slow death of your province really matter you will be on the juggernaut winning side.

Turmoil: Doesnt provide Unrest... directly. But provide more random event, with Misfortune thoses are usually bad and thus provide more battle, more bad event and so more unrest. There is a good effect , for marignon at least. Sometimes good event give you zealot for free, Marignon zealot are .. FLAGELLANT , BMUWHAHAHAHAHHA instant army http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif


All in all the Triple+ Blessing strategy is a selfdestruct one but not to be taken too lightly. It have his counter anyway. But it can be a nasty surprise. Tips for opponent of Marignon, Pythium.. If you see big black candle with awfull effect start covering the map then you can bet what you are going to face. Flagellant, Sacred Serpent, Vestales, ... who else got a cheap blessed troups that look puny to be transformed in a SC ?

Seeing half a dozen flagellant slaughter a Dragon pretender in one round is amazing http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif )

[ February 06, 2004, 17:55: Message edited by: IKerensky ]

Re: Flagellant Atral 9 blessing
 

the general problem with all these strategies about zergling rushes ... oops I mean triple blessed cheap troops http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif is that you have done your test in solo, against AI which are very bad at using concentrated spells.

A wise player will counter you with some mages, and frankly a star fires in the face of your vestal dont care much if she is lucky, have a flaming spear and a nice defence. (one example amongst many).

Re: Flagellant Atral 9 blessing
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Well, I dont know for the vestale. But I am sure that the flagellant wont care too much... Star Fire is a Astral spell right ? isn't more important for your mages to concentrate on the astral duel he/they will have to engage first ?

Anyway, I probably wont ever play MP ( I just cant sustain well pressure playing against human opponent)... or just coop with my brother agains tcomputer teams.

But I have to ask is MR 14 enough or not, to resist a lot of damaging spell ?

Re: Flagellant Atral 9 blessing
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Exactly. I really wonder what blade wind would do to them as well (can you say carnage?).

Also, you seem to greatly underestimate effects of turmoil and misfortune combo. Even Ermor is wise to avoid it. That setup simply looks like a suicide.

Re: Flagellant Atral 9 blessing
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Well, I dont know for the vestale. But I am sure that the flagellant wont care too much... Star Fire is a Astral spell right ? isn't more important for your mages to concentrate on the astral duel he/they will have to engage first ?

Anyway, I probably wont ever play MP ( I just cant sustain well pressure playing against human opponent)... or just coop with my brother agains tcomputer teams.

But I have to ask is MR 14 enough or not, to resist a lot of damaging spell ? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Frankly with the crappy settings of such an empire, I would not expect many mages on the battlefield. A Marignon grand master cost 270 gp for example ... and his anyway astral 2, so far from being confident in his mind dueling ability.

You speak of MR, star fires or bladewind (forgot this one Daynarr, it would be the best against flagellants!!!) dont ask for MR check. Aside that, yes MR 14 is a good MR for a trooper.