The Summoned Creature Quick Reference
 

I've gathered most of the information about the Summoned Monsters and the spells required to cast them and various other aspects of them for ease of use and 'lowering the learning curve'.

My question is, would people rather have a seperate "Summoned Creatures Quickref" or all inclusive of a spell reference.

Please note that the complete spell reference is going to be HUGE and it wouldn't be quick anything. The best way to find spells is via a database. But a Summoned Monster one is fairly small. If I really feel ambitious I could extract the sprites for the monsters and place them next to the spell, but I'm not much of an Adober and PDF's are the crossplatform standard so I'd need someone to help with that if I did it (On the same note, if someone wants to help with that, I have the icons for the spell path requirements as well and they could help me with putting them on the MIQR if they feel ambitious)

Any preference?

Edit: On a side note while I'm editing the MIQR, do people want Wishable items included along with stats? Solaris' gear and such?

[ February 05, 2004, 22:00: Message edited by: Zen ]

Re: The Summoned Creature Quick Reference
 

You go, girl! Boy. Einstein. Whatever.

I like the idea of a summoned creature guide. There are so many spells in this game, I get lost, and summons are a major tool all by themselves, critically important for many races.

Re: The Summoned Creature Quick Reference
 

I think the tactics and strategy involving summoned creatures is seperate from thinking about what spells to cast. I would vote for a seperate "summoning" reference.

If that seems small then maybe it could be "spells cast in the lab" to include globals and such. That way the other one can be combat spells. You would use the reference for when thinking about scripting your commanders in combat.

Re: The Summoned Creature Quick Reference
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I'd rather have it separate. I'd also like to know the upkeep cost for each creature, but that's a lot of work. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I think they should be included under a separate section of some sort, as they are still possible to achieve.

Re: The Summoned Creature Quick Reference
 

Ditto.

Re: The Summoned Creature Quick Reference
 

Also secondary question.

Does everyone like the format of the MIQR as far as path and school requirements? I'm thinking of doing it by Path, and breaking it up by school level. And a seperate one for "Multi-path" so it's a little more 'quickrefish'.

Or is there an easier way to do it that people feel would fit how they think about it?

Re: The Summoned Creature Quick Reference
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I'd be able to "Prnt Scrn", open Paint, cut and paste all the monsters into one big file. I could probably take the whole saturday and do it, or a few saturdays. They would, of corse, be in-game pics in the battle orders section. I'll take high-definition 1152x768 full screen in-game pics.

Edit: Actually, it would be best to make individual files for each summon. I'm going to make my own little playground. Human vs Humam 75% Magic Site, 0 Indep Strength, Reaserch Easy, etc.

Edit2: I could also take the RIGHT-CLICK unit info pics. What would you rather?

Haha Edit3: Unit Info screen is the best way to go. I'll make sure the size isn't too big.

Edit4: Actually, Tarrasques are huge.......

Edit5: I can also keep track of how much supplies they use. Like a tarrasque uses up 15 supplies. You'd want to know that.

[ February 05, 2004, 22:12: Message edited by: Argitoth ]

Re: The Summoned Creature Quick Reference
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I'll probably include upkeep on the 2nd or 3rd Version of it. As that is a factor for summoning and a useful tool to know. I'll also include notations for Cast in Targeted Province so people know which ones are province bombers.

Re: The Summoned Creature Quick Reference
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">If you'd like. Most supplies are standard, but you can keep an eye out if they are modified in some way (like the Celestial Servant and Tarrasque).

I'll have to find a standard height and length requirement in order to make it look right. Demon Lords are also all big. I belive if it's the side of the Icons on a Fullscreen 800x640 res on the sidebar should work, or do people want them smaller/bigger?

Re: The Summoned Creature Quick Reference
 

Separate is best IMHO...that way you can plan ahead for a summoned army strategy and leave other spells for later. It will be especially useful for Ermor, as well as other less formidable basic unit races. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif

Re: The Summoned Creature Quick Reference
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">The MIQR is fine -- for a .pdf.

A few days ago I created an Excel .xls file that lists all the summonables and their stats. (I laboriously jotted down the info from the Pythium unitview game.) Just stats, not their special attributes (such as need not eat, survivals, etc.). A spreadsheet is great because I can re-sort by ID, or alphabetically, or by whatever other column I need to for most convenience. While Excel is Windows-only, OpenOffice is cross-platform and will read/write the files just fine.

As I said, the MIQR is great, but it'd've been even more useful as a spreadsheet.

Re: The Summoned Creature Quick Reference
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">You know Gandy, the more I think about it I could probably put together a seperate Ritual spell list in virtually no time. Things like how much Purgatory bLasts undead and what can and can't be Wind Ride'd is all good information. I think I'll make one the "Summoned Creatures Quick Reference" and the "Ritual Quick Reference" and I can either stick them together in the same file, or seperate them.

Re: The Summoned Creature Quick Reference
 

Separate is best.

As for organization...

I would go by increasing research level, and note the path (conjuration, blood, etc) within the "Level 7 Summons" Category.

Re: The Summoned Creature Quick Reference
 

Make the RQR a separate file.

Re: The Summoned Creature Quick Reference
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">That Unitview is slightly off, they edited some stuff from the Demo when that particular game was made. So you might want to look through it a little more http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I have the MIQR in a spreadsheet, if anyone would like it they can send me an email at moebius at cableone dot net . It's currently in Excel but if I can find Openoffice I'll convert it.

The reason that the MIQR was placed in a PDF was for it's printer friendly Version. While being able to Alt-tab is nice, some people just like things printed out and helpful for newbies in that fashion.

[ February 05, 2004, 23:05: Message edited by: Zen ]

Re: The Summoned Creature Quick Reference
 

The only problem I have is how to calculate upkeep. Is there an easy way to see how much you pay for a summoned unit?

Re: The Summoned Creature Quick Reference
 

Keep only one province, no Growth. Cast a spell and check your income. If no effects have changed it, you'll be able to tell it's upkeep cost

Re: The Summoned Creature Quick Reference
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Wait, why don't i just see if my upkeep increases? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/blush.gif *doh*

[ February 05, 2004, 22:50: Message edited by: Argitoth ]

Re: The Summoned Creature Quick Reference
 

Just a quick follow up on the MIQR since I'm updating it for anyone who knows.

Does anyone know of any items that are not listed below that are Wish only items? I've provided their other information if anyone has any spaces that might not be filled. I have all the resistances and base information like protection, defense, damage, etc.

Sun Sword Gone Berserk (+1), x3 Damage vs undead/demon, On Hit: Area 1 Holy Pyre Cause Lesser Fear (-3), Hero: Solaris

Hammer of the Cyclops* +50% Forge Bonus, Hero: Polyperchon

The Admiral's Sword AP, On Hit: Curse, Cause Fear (+0), Hero: Admiral Torgrin

Sun Shield Awe (+0), Hero: Solaris

Crown of Katafagus Cause Fear (+0), 1 Mummy/turn, +1 Death, Cursed, Hero: Katafagus

Sun Helmet Awe (+0), Hero: Solaris

Greenstone Armor Hero: Bogus

Sun Armor Awe (+2), Hero: Solaris

Robe of the Sorceress +1 Astral, Nature, Death, Blood, Hero: Satina

Vial of Frozen Tears +1 Water, +1 Death Hero: Starke

Precious +4 Att, +4 Str Hero: Bogus

Re: The Summoned Creature Quick Reference
 

Try wishing for the "Keyboard of Johan"...

Re: The Summoned Creature Quick Reference
 

And the newbs race to see what ungodly magical item they can get ...

Re: The Summoned Creature Quick Reference
 

I like the "Screen of Kristoffer".
Lets you see the future.
http://www.illwinter.com/illwork.jpg

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<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I like your plans for the Summoned Creature ref, if you can do it by path and school level that would rock.

Sammual

Re: The Summoned Creature Quick Reference
 

Haven't seen you in a while Sammy. Been hiding?!

And yes, I think I'll go ahead and do it by School Level and break it down by Path with a notation on which School it goes in.

If I find a better one, I'll do that instead. I don't want it to be confusing.

Re: The Summoned Creature Quick Reference
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Of course, most of those sprites are already included as units in the game. Just look at units from 1000-1082. Either 1082 or 1083 crashes the game, I don't remember which. It looks like the new Arco theme will have lots of chariots with two riders that can be killed individually.

Re: The Summoned Creature Quick Reference
 

Dunno if these are wishable, but interesting anyway.

Banefire Bow
Dark Fire Sword
Claw of Kurgi
Scythe of Slaying

Re: The Summoned Creature Quick Reference
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Crown of Katafagus also curse the equipper("CANNOT BE REMOVED", and "CURSE" too.)

One uncraftable artifact you forgot,the "Crown of Ptah":
Ptah was an evil ruler who ruled with an iron hand and an army of undead. He made this crown to strengthen his control of the dead and bring fear to his subjects.
The icon is same as Prot.30 Helm.(Ammn Hotep?)
Owner....should be "Ptah",but havnt seen yet..^^"

[ February 06, 2004, 10:33: Message edited by: void ]

Re: The Summoned Creature Quick Reference
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Cannot wish a creature weapon.

Re: The Summoned Creature Quick Reference
 

If memory serves, Sword of Solaris also blesses the wielder.

Re: The Summoned Creature Quick Reference
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Cannot wish a creature weapon. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">What's a creature weapon?

An is wishing really worth it? It seems to cost a lot of gems. The manual says you can wish for gems, but would that mean I get more gems than I paid? Looks like a very tricky spell. (And as you can see, I have absolutely no expeirence with it.)


mcv.

Re: The Summoned Creature Quick Reference
 

Zen, are you going to be recording the stats of the creatures?

Re: The Summoned Creature Quick Reference
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">That was pretty much the point...

Re: The Summoned Creature Quick Reference
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I can do the conVersion for you, if you like - I don't have Excel, but I do have OpenOffice http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Sending you an email right now so you can reply.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">And a great idea that was. Printer-friendly is good.

Re: The Summoned Creature Quick Reference
 

Alright I've run into a few snags as far as organization is concerned.

Would people rather have the SCQR Letter Size with more lines of text per entry or Landscape size with less lines of text per entry.

I'm leaning towards Letter. I also need to know how much space I have to leave for the .img files so that I can space it correctly.

Anyone know offhand what would be best for the size of pictures?

Re: The Summoned Creature Quick Reference
 

Another point, if anyone wants to give any feedback.

Do you want it sorted by Path? Or by School.

Example

(By Path)

Death
Black Servant - Conjuration 1
Reanimation - Enchantment 1
Summon Shades - Conjuration 2
Revive King - Enchantment 2
Revive Wight - Conjuration 3
Revive Bane - Conjuration 3
Create Revenant - Enchantment 3

Or
By School based on Level

Summons Level 1

Conjuration
Black Servant - Death
Awaken Vine Men - Nature

Construction
Construction Corpse Man - Air/Death

Enchantment
Reanimation - Death

Blood Magic
Bind Spine Devil - Blood
Bind Bone Fiends - Blood/Death


Or if anyone has any better suggestions. I'd like to know now since I have most of the information I'm just looking at how to present it easiest to refer to.

Edit: I took some time and I have the Upkeeps for most all summons now as well.

[ February 06, 2004, 23:58: Message edited by: Zen ]

Re: The Summoned Creature Quick Reference
 

Path, please.

Re: The Summoned Creature Quick Reference
 

Path, absolutely http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

~Aldin

Re: The Summoned Creature Quick Reference
 

Path path.
Really hate "sort by school", waste my time in jadish finding when set order/cast ritual...

Re: The Summoned Creature Quick Reference
 

I think sorted by school has its purposes but the game already does that. Sort by path gives a new way of considering things.

Re: The Summoned Creature Quick Reference
 

The SCQR is nearly done. With the exception of the "Prettifying" (I.E. In game pictures of units) it is done, if you'd like a copy of the xls file that is currently done and rough, send me an Email. Expect the PDF to be out in a day or two to any nearby websites that will host it.

Re: The Summoned Creature Quick Reference
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Great!
Will you post a link here to it? (Or do you expect it to be on Sun's site?)

Re: The Summoned Creature Quick Reference
 

The MIQR 2.6 is done and ready to hit webspace near you.

Illwinter, Shrapnel and Sunray's site should all be hosting them when they get a chance to upload the document.

If you have any questions or comments, please email or post them to me about any of the Magic Items.

Also special thanks to Bruce Geryk, a stalwart contributor to the community.

Expect the SCQR later tonight.

Re: The Summoned Creature Quick Reference
 

Yep, it's up.

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<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Here's a direct link to the file at IW's site.

EDIT: it's also available on my downloads page -- direct link

[ February 24, 2004, 01:26: Message edited by: Arryn ]

Re: The Summoned Creature Quick Reference
 

very nice. thanks.

Re: The Summoned Creature Quick Reference
 

The SCQR is done as well as the latest (and hopefully Last) Version of the MIQR. Find them at your nearby sites for downloading. Again, any issues go ahead and feel free to email me.

Edit: The RQR will be done by the end of the next week along with the BQR. Unless there are any objections or preference, I will do each of them according to path by school as I have done the SCQR.

[ February 26, 2004, 00:52: Message edited by: Zen ]

Re: The Summoned Creature Quick Reference
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">These files are available, now, for immediate download from my web site.

Have at 'em!

Re: The Summoned Creature Quick Reference
 

I believe that Angelic host is 50 astral pearls, not 25.

Re: The Summoned Creature Quick Reference
 

Rurg http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif Error on my part. I'll be releasing another Version of it after about a week, if anyone else finds any errors or any discrepencies.

Re: The Summoned Creature Quick Reference
 

Wraith Lords are ethereal, but don't have that tag in the current .pdf Version on your website. Just a minor thing.