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I give up, you finally won me over
As a regular lurker in c.s.i.p.s, i have for many years now seen the constant praises of Dom1 and now Dom2. Well, I never gave it a chance before now... and damn i wish i had some sooner!
Its a great game, but i got a problem with a recent battle. After i added the hydra to my pretenders stack, the battle was very very costly. Clearly my own tropps die from those noxious fumes the hydra generates. Isnt there an easy way to protect my troops from this effect? It makes the hydra pretty useless otherwise... From a newbies perspective anyway http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif |
Re: I give up, you finally won me over
Well the Hydra's aura is Poison.
So if you get anything that helps with Poison it will help. Try forging "Snake Rings" and a spell called Poison Ward (Enchantment 4) or Serpent's Blessing (Enchantment 7) will help ward your entire army. The best bet with Hydra's is to keep units that can stand up to a little poisoning in the same battle and try to keep your normal human units in a different army http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif |
Re: I give up, you finally won me over
Well, there's no really easy way to accomplish this: You can try Poison Ward, which will cost you a nature gem, and requires a nature-2 mage...but just watch: you give him the gem, and he refuses to cast the damn thing, even when you explicitly told him to do so.
Or you can position your units so that the hydras go elsewhere and not near your other troops, but just watch: They'll all end up in a big clump in the center when the fighting starts, and everyone dies anyway. Sometimes, I think that them hydras, they just aren't meant to be used with anything other than missile troops. And just watch, they'll get mowed down by friendly fire because your air mage, like the nature mage, refused to cast Arrow Fend despite being given the gem to use. Bah. It's like the saying goes, "Some days you eat the sandwich, some days the sandwich eats you.". And in Soviet Russia, the sandwich eats you. Basically, you can keep trying to use hydras with your normal troops, and watch in horror as it manages to go horribly, horribly wrong, no matter what you try, or you can try using just hydras, and units that are innately poison-immune. Unfortunately, Pythium lacks these, so you'll be stuck with whatever you might be able to scrounge from Indies, or summoning your own. [ February 07, 2004, 04:46: Message edited by: Norfleet ] |
Re: I give up, you finally won me over
I once had an "army" consisting of 2 hydras and a commander. I left the hydras in the center of the green box and put the commander in the back corner. Gave the commander orders to retreat, and the hydras "hold and attack>closest" + "retreat". They never actually got close enough to attack due to the starting position, but retreated just ahead of the enemy army and left them in a cloud of poison gas. I used this tactic to whittle down independent armies. It was common to see 20-30 deaths due to poisoning.
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Re: I give up, you finally won me over
In all reality, if you have ~7 Hydras on a flank with charge orders on them and you keep your main force farther back than you normally do and on the opposite flank, you can do fairly decently on the friendly fire deaths. But in general the armies are incompatible unless you count on taking high losses.
One way to make sure your army casts Poison Ward/Serpent's Blessing is by only sending in your Hydra combined armies against large armies, then the trigger fires for gem usage. |
Re: I give up, you finally won me over
Wow, a very helpful community! That is golden when trying to figure a game out http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
Well, i guess I will just post the hydra as a lone defender of a border province. And in the next game i wont buy a hydra before im sure i can keep its fellow soldiers alive http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif Meanwhile i got a new problem... With my astral pretender, I tried my first ritual spell: Astral projection. Well that certainly wasnt worth it... as he was discovered and is now feebleminded http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif No more magic from that guy. A pretty big hit to take so early in the game. How do i remove it? Seems like a pretty useless spell if the risk is so great? I could easily have sent a scout instead, but i did it to try out a ritual spell. |
Re: I give up, you finally won me over
To recover from Feeblemindness,
- you can cast Gift of Health (Global Enchanment, N5 & Enchantment5), which can restore various Affliction - you can forge a Chalice (3N2S & Con8), and give it to your pretender. The Chalice has a chance of healing Afflictions every turn, so just keep it on for a while - I believe you can also cast ritual spell Gift of Reason (N4 & Thaumaturgy4) on your Pretender - Arco Priestess and an Tien Chi Hero are also capable of healing Afflication. If you aren't playing one of these guys, probably no luck unless you can charm them (if you mind enslave them, they will need to be Gift of Reason first to be able to heal I think, thus makes the point moot) - You can Wish it away, but if you can cast Wish spell, you have all the above cheaper means As you can see, all the above cost gems and researchs, as well as having mages capable of casting them. - There is another poor man's way, but not guarrantied to work and/or not make things worth. That is, get you Pretender killed, and recall him/her/it back. A recalled Pretender has chance of healing some or all of acquired Afflictions. Obviously this not the best nor a desirable way. But sometimes a Crippled + Blind + Never Healing Pretender can be more useful than a Feebleminded one, especially if he/she/it has good research ability. (Kind of a funny mental image of a blinded/limbless researcher. Now only if he/she/it was also deaf and otherwise lack ways to communicate with others...) Anyhow, don't do this unless you ABSOLUTELY have to get rid of the feeblemindedness and have no other ways. -Gateway103 [ February 07, 2004, 05:35: Message edited by: Gateway103 ] |
Re: I give up, you finally won me over
As far as I know, Gift of Reason does not remove feeblemindedness, nor can you Wish to remove afflictions. Not 100% sure though.
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Re: I give up, you finally won me over
Gift of Reason can never be cast on your pretender, since it only grants commander status to a normal grunt....which is a status your god can never be in.
Gift of Health has a random chance of removing afflictions every turn, but Gift of Reason has nothing whatsoever to do with afflictions. |
Re: I give up, you finally won me over
Well, since it is very early in the game, all those solutions are many turns away. I have given up on that game, and started a new one.
I know i´m new, but so far that seems like a very unbalanced spell (astral projection). Very low gain and huge risk. |
Re: I give up, you finally won me over
It can be used when you are fairly certain there aren't any astral mages in the province you are looking at. It's always a bad idea to cast it with your pretender.
There is another spell, Astral Window, that does the same thing without the risk, though it takes more astral skill & more gems to cast. |
Re: I give up, you finally won me over
Thanks Parker http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
I tried a new game as Tien Chi. Seemed like a pretty fun race, but i think I spread out to much. I had a lot of land, when 2 sides started warrring me. Didnt have a chance. In my new game (as Jotunheim) its actually going pretty good. I got a pretty big army (it feels big, i probably aint seen nothing yet), that is causing big problems for the Vanheim. My problem is the support though. I have to spread my armies out on 2 provs at a time. It does make conquest faster, but if he still has a big army coming, it could be fatal that i cant stack them. Is there a way to increase the supply of provinces? And/or a way to cut the supply cost of current units? I have changed my production focus to magical units, but that isnt helping right now. Instead of units im using the gold to create more mages to research/summon. The big hag (forgot the name) volunteered... she is an excellent unit indeed! What are the odds of that happening? Is it something that happens for every side? Seems like a big random factor if not... |
Re: I give up, you finally won me over
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You could build a castle. You could forge some magical items (giant pot of broth or whatever) and stick them on your commanders. Quote:
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Re: I give up, you finally won me over
IIRC the chances of having national heroes show up is:
(3%+-1% per luck/unluck)/turn cumulative. So for a Luck -3 nation there is no chance of a national hero and for Luck +3 its 6%/turn cumulative. |
Re: I give up, you finally won me over
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Re: I give up, you finally won me over
Hej Bossemanden. Jeg kan se du også er fra Danmark? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
Well, in my game Angerboda has made a big difference. Guess i shouldn´t go for an unlucky nation then http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif As for supply, i´m building the castle now. I just wish the supply would be taken from the province the army CAME from, rather than the province they just conquered. Is there a time limit for when the starvation sets in, or is immediately when you are to low on supplies? [ February 07, 2004, 15:28: Message edited by: RonnyRoy ] |
Re: I give up, you finally won me over
The nations all have pros and cons. If you do bad with one just shrug and figure its for someone else. The best thing is to find a nation where their advantages fit your gameplay.
Jotun can be tempting to people who picture an army of giants moving across the map. For that style of play they would be best trying Ulm. The giants dont make a good army. They make a very useful PART of an army. Jotun actually works pretty well for me playing in a slower defensive mode. Their province defense is cheap and powerful. A 6 does just as well as 11 or 15 for other nations. There are a number of interesting strategys using Jotun. |
Re: I give up, you finally won me over
Well, i also like the giants. Its great to be scared by the size of the enemy force, only to realise that your much "smaller" army can easily beat them http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
The supply problem isnt as bad as i first thought. Mainly because my final strike against the Vanheim was interrupted by the other 2 nations. Now i have to spread my army to defend myself. Like you said, Jotuns are great defenders, so im not so worried. I tried the monolith pretender btw. I wasn´t sure how big an disadvantage the immobility is, but so far it hasnt been a problem. Very good pretender. Do you guys agree? |
Re: I give up, you finally won me over
Again depends on your play style. The non-moving pretenders can be a real pain to try and kill off. It forces the other player to do more preparation before getting rid of you. I think it works well if Im in a small game with a weak castle where I can pretty much expect to be attacked. Its not a bad defensive-player choice but obviously not so good for the offensive players.
heehee I recognize your avatar. Amazing who can become famous on the net. [ February 07, 2004, 17:36: Message edited by: Gandalf Parker ] |
Re: I give up, you finally won me over
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Re: I give up, you finally won me over
They are cheap and have good starting dominion, though I usually end up taking the Oracle... Also, try killing a Sphinx with 1000 hitpoints and 30 protection. It can hold a castle all by itself against conventional armies hundreds strong.
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Re: I give up, you finally won me over
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About turn 10, my only army was sieging Abysian capital, and Caelum decided to start peacekeeping operation by flying his army of 50+ troops over my capital and storming the castle inhabited by the pretender and just few soldiers. The annoying fliers were ground to dust. Soon after, when I was extracting my justified vengeage and conquering the Last Caelian provinces, the Abysian troops blocked my army's path back home and C'tis broke our peace treaty, marching his saurolich pretender and an army of 150+ lizards to my capital, breaking the walls at ease and storming it. My Baphomet, the sole unit in castle at that time, singlehandedly and unequiped, wiped that army out of existence, and the skin of said treasorous saurolich decorates the wall of local public lavatory to this day. Immobile pretenders have their uses, even when chosen accidentally. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif I don't honestly think other pretenders could have done the same. |
Re: I give up, you finally won me over
I play with the immobile pretenders quite a bit. I think they make early expansion a little harder, although the trade-off of having them busy researching, casting search-spells, and making items tends to set you up a bit better in terms of development.
As time goes on, my mobile pretenders tend to "settle down" anyway, save for really huge battles such as taking out an enemy capital, so immobility seems to make less and less of a difference for me as the game goes on, powerful (and more expendible) summons become available, and so forth. |
Re: I give up, you finally won me over
Let me throw in another question here also:
I've been pretty much using rainbow pretenders for the ability to locate most (if not all) magic sites early on in the game. Unless you go with Arco, or find some other way to have a large pearl income and get a mage-type who has 3 astral (for akashic), there doesn't seem to be a very reliable way to find magic sites of all flavors (since your national mages are going to be limited in paths and levels). Am I placing too much emphasis on finding all the sites? What does everyone else do? |
Re: I give up, you finally won me over
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Feel free to disagree, since my first (and thus far only) MP game was Last night, so I still have very much to learn. |
Re: I give up, you finally won me over
I think Atul's example was pretty good for a use of immobile gods in a multiplayer game. Its a good choice for someone who cant seem to avoid the temptation to keep marching all your armies out to the front. A large high-hitpoint immobile pretender means not having to worry about surprise attacks at home.
As to site-hunting I think any extreme tends to be a bad idea. Working too hard to find every site is not efficient just as never searching isnt. Its somewhere in-between. (but I also have a big problem in that area. I just love to find surprises) |
Re: I give up, you finally won me over
Welcome coming over from the strategy newsGroups.
Hydra is too expensive to use as a patrol. Just consider the Hyrda to be an army by itself. If you see a province with Jade Amazons (and I think the Lizard independents also) then be sure to grab that. It will give you protected commanders for your hydras [ February 07, 2004, 12:52: Message edited by: Gandalf Parker ] |
Re: I give up, you finally won me over
Supply can be increased by building fortresses. Supply spreads to adjoining provinces from them.
Supply use can be reduced by magic items which provide supply. E.g. Bag of Wine, one per commander, reduces supply use in province by 25. Heroes are often very useful, and there are specific national ones for each nation. Some other characters (sometimes with troops) appear for all nations at random too. Some of the mercenaries are also quite useful. The chance is mostly based on your Luck scale. If you want, there are threads here with more details. PvK |
Re: I give up, you finally won me over
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Man can research Thaumaturgy-2 quickly, and site-search in Air and Nature more quickly than with a pretender... and send a sole monk holy-searching. Abysia is much weaker in this respect because Fire, Astral, and Blood search spells are different paths, but you can just cast astral and fire site-searching spells and use a single Demonbred to manually find blood/holy site, or since you'll probably research Blood early, you can use a Dragon to manually search to fire-3 and holy-4 and cast astral and blood site-searches. Atlantis is set with all (underwater) elemental site searches and water aboveground... never use a rainbow site-searcher with Atlantis. If you use a rainbow mage, give it 4 in the sorcery fields and 1 in the elemental fields... but the combat gods and underwater search spells are so powerful that rainbows are not a good idea. It varies from race to race. If you want to find most of the sites without acashic record, you need a rainbow mage. But recently I played Vanheim with a water-only Blue Dragon and was able to find most magic sites using search spells... Nature with Druids, Bowl of Blood with a lucky blood-random, Air and Holy with Vanir, water with the dragon (manually searching), Earth with dwarves, Astral with a lucky 1-astral random on a dwarf, Death with an indy Necromancer from a site that lets you recruit necromancers... everything except fire. If you gain critical mass in searching, you tend to stumble upon sites that let you recruit new mages that can cast search spells in new paths. In that game I found indy nature mages (druids), water mages (hydromancers, 1 and 2 water), death mages (2 death), and witches (worthless). Lizard shamen are also common, and have 1 astral (lets you cast the astral site-search). -Cherry [ February 08, 2004, 19:10: Message edited by: Saber Cherry ] |
Re: I give up, you finally won me over
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Oracle is an astral-3, meaning quaranteed acashic record, even for nations with no astral mages themselves, also has the nice ability of being able to forge the slave matrix for use in communion for non-astrals. Blood fountain is Blood-3, and is good enough to start a blood econ for any normally non-blood race. There's many good blood mages that can be summoned with blood magic, and hitting your enemy with devils when you are playing man can be quite a shock. Both have great dominion and cost 0, so you can have some kickass scales with them, meaning more/better troops and faster research. |
Re: I give up, you finally won me over
Its me again, i had to take a break due to a crunch period at college :/ Damn game destroys my education...
Anyway, after some lost games I have managed to get my first wins. First i had a small map game, with me as Ermor/Ashen and a Micltan AI. Read somewhere that this should be easy. Well it sure was http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif In my current game i got a big problem. I started as a Death/Nature enchantress for Jotunheim/Utgard. Damn shame, because I had the upper hand at one point. I tried the Tartarian Gate/Gift of nature strat i had found here. There were 4 opponents on the british map, and I had a big chunk of ireland, and most of middle england, when 2 random events and 2 seeking arrows set me back greatly. Incidently thats when Pythium and 2 other nations starts to attack. I tried to be defensive on one front (Ireland, where Ulm and Magnion attacks), while trying a counteroffensive attack against Micltan in the south. I decide to use my pretender in the offensive, and starts moving her to the south. When the main force get to the enemy capital, the pretender is 1 prov behind (have to spread out for supply reasons). They have broken the castle so I order them to storm... meanwhile i send my pretender into the capital province, assuming she will join the storm. She didnt.. the result: My troops almost wins, but looses by an inch... Bah. Meanwhile they have taken the province between their capital, and my land. So my pretender is stuck in the enemy capital, with only a few guards. I try to send her back, but he doesnt make it. I then start cranking out priests (godes) to get her back. With the help of the mighty giants, the war is not doing that bad really, but when she returns she has lost 1 path in each magic type? (she was a rainbow pretender, having at least one in each path, except blood). She has an affliction (lost eye), but the tooltip doesnt indicate any magic loss. Has she really lost those paths for good? |
Re: I give up, you finally won me over
If your pretender dies and is recalled, you will lose 1 in all of your magic paths: This has no effect on your blessing, but that loss is, effectively, permanent: You can replace it by wishing or empowering, but it's not going to simply go away like an affliction might.
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Re: I give up, you finally won me over
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I give up on that game... It is really annoying that i lost because i wasnt aware new-comers doesnt automatically join a fight. I could easily have waited a turn, but in retrospect it does make sense that you have to manually order it to attack. |
Re: I give up, you finally won me over
Aw, you should try to win - savor the challenge! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
Or, you could keep the game on hold, and come back to it when you have some ideas. PvK |
Re: I give up, you finally won me over
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But yes, troops just arriving in a province won't be able to join in storming the castle, although if you are the one under siege, troops arriving in a province will join any troops attempting to break the siege in battle. |
Re: I give up, you finally won me over
And if you want your army to defend the province outside of the castle they are going to you have to move those new troops with Move & Patrol.
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