Would anyone be interested in more planet development?
 

Is there anyone else who wants more to build, and have more choices on what to have on your planet. There a lot of facilities that could be added to this game.

There a couple of things to do:

1.Double all the planets facilites/storage capacities.
Huge 25->50
Large 20->40.....

2. Work with what the game gives you in regards to abilities for facilites.

Power Station: Increase production/and ??
but decreases conditions 2% each year.

Housing: Increases happiness/prevent plagues

Police/Intelligence burrow: Calms riots, increases happiness to a certain level, and increases the chance of intelligence attacks against population failing

Transportation facilites: Some kind of transportation facility that might increase production, and/or make happiness.

Survey/Weather Center: Guard against/early warning of natural disasters.

These are just a few that can be added as of right now based on the abilities.txt file in the data folder.

Also because of these added facilities, there can now be more diverse and extensive researching projects as well.

Would anyone be interested in creating some of the graphic files? I'm not much of an artist.

Let me know what you think? Thanks

Re: Would anyone be interested in more planet development?
 

SunDevil - I am interested. I am actually keeping a list of several mods I want to do once I get the AI a bit more challenging. In the early days, I put out my Mod 1.0 which had an additional area of research called Planetary Defense which in turn had 3 different types of facilities with 5 levels each including normal planetary shield generators, defense bunkers and a defense satellite network. Some of the abilities worked, some didn't (that is when I discovered that not all abilities are utilizable by facilities and components). The one caveat is that until the next patch, I really don't want to change the AI files (other than the Darlok) to utilize all of these facilities, but we can still come up with a list, start experimenting with ability uses, playtesting and creating the graphics. Anyway, I would be interested in assisting with a "Facilities" mod pack, but again (as you know) I am by no means an artist.

[This message has been edited by Tampa_Gamer (edited 06 February 2001).]

Re: Would anyone be interested in more planet development?
 

Tampa_Gamer:

1. Do you feel that research projects and topics are a little dumbed down. Example,
when you research new engines, or storage techniques/material, I would like to able to actually discover the new material first, then be able to incorporate it into other research projects to get better engines, storage facilities. I guess more like Civ II where research topics relied and were connected to one another. What are your thoughts?

2. Do you know if it is possible for MM to ever make an update to the Abilities.txt file to have the option of adding more abilites?

3. We might as well start making a list of facilities and/or options/abilities to create.

Power Station: Increase production/and ??
but decreases conditions 2% each year.

Housing: Increases happiness/prevent plagues

Police/Intelligence burrow: Calms riots, increases happiness to a certain level, and increases the chance of intelligence attacks against population failing

Transportation facilites: Some kind of transportation facility that might increase production, and/or make happiness.

Survey/Weather Center: Guard against/early warning of natural disasters.

**New Ones**

Military Barracks: Increases the defense of a planet against ground attack/also makes the population stronger/more difficult to kill.

Communications Center: Would prevent intelligence attacks that involve communication sabotage. Example:Mimic

Schools/Library: Increase research output.

Re: Would anyone be interested in more planet development?
 

Be interested in this area .. haven't not done art for over 5 years, but willing to attempt if can't find pro to help. pers more into creating mods to keep research tree going, i hate to run out of things to R&D ... really upsets me, so been adding things on wpns side now and then was gonna approach bldgs. must state upfront my biz keeps me traveling a lot right now so i would not be able to assist in reliable manner.

jsnider

Re: Would anyone be interested in more planet development?
 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SunDevil:
Military Barracks: Increases the defense of a planet against ground attack/also makes the population stronger/more difficult to kill.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Civil Defense Network?

Re: Would anyone be interested in more planet development?
 

How about an ability that allows you to have more facility space?

Sub-surface industrial complexes!
Orbital Facilities!
Nomadic cities in space !

Rev-Up your Spin-dizzies!

Drool drool. I want it NOW! LOL! http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/ima...ons/icon12.gif

Re: Would anyone be interested in more planet development?
 

Many good ideas but one thing I would not want to see is a return to the late game colony management nightmares that was MOO2. Bleh! http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

I just have nightmares of being late in the game and then finally researching the 'Uber-Gadgetron 900' and then having to go through each and every world and add one to its queue. 10 Turns later, I get the 'Ultra Gadgetron XL' and its the same headache on every colony. Many games I just stopped researching this stuff cuz it was just too much management to keep ahead of it all.

One thing that really appeals in SE4 is the minimal amount of colony management required beyond the initial queuing. Sure, later on there are some new facilities but not every planet needs/wants them. Better models of current facilities are neatly handled by the 'upgrade' command.

So, I guess its all a question of what you are trying to get from the game. Personally, I like the 'big picture' approach already taken with minimal amounts of Colony management and planning/updating of the same. This is not to say that I wouldnt like to see added options, but I would like them to be just that...options...not more things that you are required to do just to 'keep up with the Joneses'.

Talenn

Re: Would anyone be interested in more planet development?
 

Talenn,

You've made a good point, I'll try to make a lot of stuff at base level. In other words the first Version would be available either at the start of the game or within the intial or second round of the research project. This way it would just take the update button to get the new/improved Version if there is one. You can only have so many improvements of housing facilities. http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Would anyone be interested in more planet development?
 

I would be worried that this game will bog down in tedious micro-management. It already requires a *high* level of management - any more is questionable.... If it is just a matter of new facilities that improve, I would be open to it. If it meant planets would *have* to have these new facilities, I would not... The problem with Civ and Alpha Centauri is they require so much building that that is 90% of the game... I like the fact that this game seems nicely balanced between a building/management sim and warfare/combat.

Just my 2 cents http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

Jason2

Re: Would anyone be interested in more planet development?
 

I'd like to see some more interesting facilities become available (ie: defense, prod boost, etc), but the AI would need to be able take advantage of them for it to be fair.

I also agree with Jason2 about the new facils not being requirements. One of the first things I appreciated about SEIV was that you didn't to deal with the have the whole "population appeasement" factor that CIV, SMAC, and so many other 4X games have, where you need to continually build "holo-theaters", etc just to keep your cities from rioting, because they are always on the edge of doing so - you can never keep them happy enough. Blah. Then in SMAC, they did the same thing with polution control as well as happiness - urk.

Re: Would anyone be interested in more planet development?
 

It wouldn't be hard what so ever to make the ai use whatever add on facilities that are made. No I am not going to make any new facilities requirements. In the game right now there is a total of how many required facilities? 1 = spaceport. And even then if you pick natural merchant as a racial trait you don't have one required facility. Why change a good thing about the game. As posted earlier, the facilities that I might add will either be available at the start of the game and can be improved as the game progresses, or can be researched within the first or second phase of research in that particular project. So lets just focus on the brainstorming of new facilities and ideas. Thanks.

Re: Would anyone be interested in more planet development?
 

Let's just focus on new facilities and new ideas. All ideas and new facilities welcome.
Thanks.

Re: Would anyone be interested in more planet development?
 

Another concern I meant to add before was that I'm not sure if adding more facility slots to planets will be unbalancing to the game. I've seen posters here who think there's already too many facility slots on planets. With double the facilities per planet, there's a lot less need for expansion to new planets/systems. (But then, it makes every planet much more valuable and worth dedicating some facility slots to their defense).

An alternate possibility might be to create some new double-duty facilities that would free up some slots for other things. Maybe like a space port that also works as a resupply depot, or a combo value enhancer/climate control facil, or a "space complex" that acts like a space port, resup depot and space yard all in one. Hmm. maybe factor a robotic factory into one of those space port combos, too.

Other new facility ideas:
- "military research centers": provide both research and intel points, analagous to monoliths for resources.
- "global network": gives % bonues to both research and intel, like robotic factories do for resources
- "planetary long-range scanners": works like the ship component, but with longer range.
- "planetary sensors": an assortment of these for planets to match the ship-based gravitic, tachyon, etc ship sensors.
- facils that give a unit or facility or ship production boost, while leaving the other rates untouched.
- I like Tenryu's idea of a facility you could build that would allow you to build more facilities (within limits of course).
- a non-racial facil to increase population.
- non-racial med lab facils to L5
- a security facil that decreases the chance of ALL intel attacks on the planet, and then maybe also a system-Version that decreases chance for the entire system.
- Military command centers - some non-racial facils that improve your combat or defense system-wide.
- planetary shield regenerator - regens planetary shield at, say 300 pts/turn
- planetary cargo facils beyond L3 to allow much more cargo (ie:room for platforms/units) on small planets.
- facils that boost planet values at higher rates than 3%/year
- "ultra-warp-scanner" facil that lets you see all the goings-on in all systems connected by warp points the system the ultra scanner is in.
- total system-wide stellar manipulation blocker - no warp points can be opened or closed into this system, no planet or sun bombs, etc. (To prevent someone from becoming impregnable sealing off their system warps and then building this, a new stellar tech at the top of the stellar tree could be added to trump this facil).

And how about some "galactic wonder" type facils that are extremely expensive, but provide empire-wide benefits (I wouldn't make them "only the first to build it gets the benefit" deal, though (I always thought that was silly) - every race to build one could benefit from it).
- A communications wonder facil that puts you in contact with every race.
- a "galactic news" facility that lets you hear about the major events in the galaxy, for all races you are in contact with. (ie: a major disaster strikes, an empire declares war on another, allies or surrenders, a major battle was lost (no replay though), a ringworld was built, etc.)
- a galctic trading center that doubles(?) your empire's trade income.
- a galactic library to give you a bonus % of research points from EVERY empire.
- empire security net: makes intel attacks against your empire MUCH harder to accomplish

Re: Would anyone be interested in more planet development?
 

Good ideas LintMan!

Re: Would anyone be interested in more planet development?
 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LintMan:
- I like Tenryu's idea of a facility you could build that would allow you to build more facilities (within limits of course).
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

This could be problematic (hence aforementioned your limits). While this would definately be interesting, you'd have to be careful with it, and it could be annoying to code. For starters, it'd almost have to be one-per-planet [for ea. type, at least: you could have Subterranean Habitation Caverens, Floating Cities, and Micro Pocket Dimensions (or whatever) all on the same planet for (1 fac. * planet size) ea., but not two Floating Cities].

Another point to remember is that any such facilities would by necessity have to be the Last things killed, 'cause Bad Things would happen if your 50-fac planet suddenly lost the Uber-Storage-Complex V that was giving it room for 25 of those facs... [in a sense, this could be a desirable thing ("Use da Smartbomz to collapse da filthy 'Umies' caverns!!!"), but distinguishing between facs which are and are not "underground" could be a hassle to code].

[This message has been edited by ealbright (edited 07 February 2001).]

Re: Would anyone be interested in more planet development?
 

Some famous billionaire rich guy (Rockefeller, JP Morgan?) was once asked how much money it would take to make him happy. He answered, "Just a little bit more."

In that fine tradition, I say, "More, MORE, MORE! More is better!" I want so many choices that I can't reasonably use them all in a single game. More research areas, more special race abilities, more facilities, more components, more choices. I want to be bewildered and overwhelmed. I want my community college to start offering courses on SEIV. I want to be able to put "Certified SEIV Expert" on my resume. In conclusion, let me just say:

"Mooooooooooooooore!"

Re: Would anyone be interested in more planet development?
 

Personally, I LIKE lots of things to build & research. I didn't mind the tons of building & management in MOO2 & Civ. However, if there were a tool that would allow you to build a certain item on selected planets, all planets, etc, then this would be greatly simplified. But, overall, the more stuff, the better http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

I also thought that Civ's research tree, with each new discovery attributable to two or more previous discoveries, was much more fun than SEIV's research tree, and made your research strategy more difficult to plan out (and, of course, essentially, puzzle solving is what we're doing here...right?).

I also wish that their strategic combat system was a little less difficult to use...one thing that bugs me is having to click on the mini-map just to re-center the big map somewhere else...the ship's auto-pathing is poor also...

By the way...I am working on a complete research tree document and will publish it here when I'm done. It'll be in PowerPoint because I'm not an artist, I'm a computer geek http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif Any artists out there can feel welcome to take the finished product and put it into some nice graphical form http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

Paul E. Mason
Senior VMS Systems Admistrator

Re: Would anyone be interested in more planet development?
 

Ealbright,

I do agree with your concerns and those of the others here regarding some limits. Isn't that true of everything?

In any case, not being a programmer myself nor having access to the mind of Aaron Hall, I have no idea how difficult it would be to code. I like to remember that in programming, like a magic show, you don't really have to do what your audience thinks you are doing. It just has to LOOK like you did it. http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/ima...ons/icon12.gif

I can imagine, however, that this ability might be better implemented as a Vehicle only type.

For example:

Ability 1 type := Facility Space
Ability 1 Desc := BLAH-Blah-blah
Ability 1 Val 1 := { the facility family # goes here so that we can specify which facility family }
Ability 1 Val 2 := { the maximum number of facilities goes here }

I know there are a whole bunch of other issues, like most stuff, but, oh well, I am given to strange imaginings at times.


[This message has been edited by Tenryu (edited 08 February 2001).]

Re: Would anyone be interested in more planet development?
 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Spyder:
Personally, I LIKE lots of things to build & research. I didn't mind the tons of building & management in MOO2 & Civ. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I agree. I like micromanagement. I'd even like to be able to design cities like in SimCity! (SimSEIV? OK, that's extreme to the point of wierd, I know.) And I'd like to control space and land battles in fine detail.
BUUUUT, I also have to agree with the macro people here, that once your empire gets big the micro can get pretty tiresome. (Can anyone say "carpal tunnel syndrome?") That's where good AI ministers come in.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Spyder:

However, if there were a tool that would allow you to build a certain item on selected planets, all planets, etc, then this would be greatly simplified. But, overall, the more stuff, the better http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Yes and yes.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Spyder:

I also thought that Civ's research tree, with each new discovery attributable to two or more previous discoveries, was much more fun than SEIV's research tree, and made your research strategy more difficult to plan out ...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Never played Civ, but played SMAC, which is similar. I disagree with Spyder here. I found the Civ/SMAC research "net" idea restrictive -- at least the way it was implemented. I was forced to research almost everything in order to get the stuff I really wanted. So trading of research wasn't worthwhile, because everyone had most of the same stuff. And it was the same every time.
What I wouldn't mind, and which I think would add some fun complexity, would be the choice to have the research lines either all independent (as they are now), or to have them be interdependent (like in Civ/SMAC). But for interdependent I would want two additional options. First, I'd want the interdependence to be different each time. Or, even better, different for each empire. (Oh man, that would rock! Just think how that would affect trading! And how about a special racial ability that can ignore research prereqs?!) Second, I'd want to be able to set the granularity, meaning that I could set the number of interconnections anywhere from few to many.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Spyder:

By the way...I am working on a complete research tree document and will publish it here when I'm done. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Nice. Looking forward to it.

Re: Would anyone be interested in more planet development?
 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Tenryu:
I can imagine, however, that this ability might be better implemented as a Vehicle only type.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

...and then we could have orbital city Bases, as well as obscenely massive Baseships (where the name isn't a misnomer)...

Re: Would anyone be interested in more planet development?
 

I could see strip-mining facilities (harvest resources quickly at low cost, but also damages *both* value and conditions quickly, as well) being useful -- particularly for nomadic races ala the ID4 aliens.

Possibly, a planetary shield facility which protects friendly ships in that sector as well, although it would take a goodly bit of coding perhaps.

Maybe there should be a psychic facility which attacks the minds of attackers (giving significant attack penalties to 'em out of fear), perhaps with additional effects on invading ground troops (*large* attack penalties, possibly partial or even full conVersion upon arrival). Only works on that sector, 'natch.

Ship component idea: a battle technology analyzer, which may give a small RP boost if higher technology levels are observed.

------------------
-- The thing that goes bump in the night

Re: Would anyone be interested in more planet development?
 

Yes, there ought to be options to modify planets more extensiely and build more interesting things. If planet ENVIRONMENT was more than a single factor we could have more interesting techs related to terraforming. Rather than this vague "conditions" thing there ought to be GRAVITY, TEMPERATURE, and RADIATION. Then, you'd need seperate techs to deal with each of these. The current "Conditions Improvement" plants probably deal with temperature. Some mild penalties, maybe 10-20 percent production for incompatible gravity or radiation levels would make the other types of terraforming useful. It doesn't have to be some catastrophic difference. As high-tech spacefaring races the major players have the machinery necessary to survive in these environments, it's just expensive to use it and so the net return on a colony is reduced. We're talking about actually CHANGING the environment with the terraforming techs so the compensating machinery is not needed and the 'tax' on various activites is removed.

As for planet 'development', how about orbital elevators? The theory is that with strong enough materials you could build a 'tower' on the equator of a world that goes straight into orbit. Put a high-speed elevator in it and you've got direct access to near orbit without rockets or other messy propulsion systems. Then, you could build a continuous orbital structure around it -- a "ringworld" around a planet rather than around a star. In practical game terms this sounds like a great way to justify extending the facility space of a planet, and you could make a cool graphic of an orbital ring appear on the planet once it was built.

I'd also like to see some simpler additions, too, like an "Arcology" facility that boost the population capacity of a planet by a few hundred million. This could be very useful when a planet suddenly becomes 'unstable' and you have to evacuate the population before it breaks up.

Re: Would anyone be interested in more planet development?
 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Baron Munchausen:
If planet ENVIRONMENT was more than a single factor we could have more interesting techs related to terraforming. Rather than this vague "conditions" thing there ought to be GRAVITY, TEMPERATURE, and RADIATION. Then, you'd need seperate techs to deal with each of these. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
How about making the number of conditions something that is modable? So those who mainly want to fight wars on a grand strategic scale can keep things simple, but those who like the colonization aspect can make it as complex as they like. (What other conditions might people think of? How about atmospheric pressure, for instance?) Also, you could allow/disallow various forms of terraforming. Like, some people might think that changing gravity is going too far, but others wouldn't. And maybe you could allow some types of terraforming for some races but not for others.

Re: Would anyone be interested in more planet development?
 

I think he has the right idea... I also like the idea of moding this... i dont know if they will put in a mod selection option but they need to... also the idea of a elevator is cool to


<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>
An alternate possibility might be to create ome new double-duty facilities that would free up some slots for other things. Maybe like a space port that also works as a resupply depot, or a combo value enhancer/climate control facil, or a "space complex" that acts like a space port, resup depot and space yard all in one. Hmm. maybe factor a robotic factory into one of those space port combos, too.

[/b] <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>