Battle: coloured lines under unit icon
 

OK,I've read the manual, the various FAQs and sticky threads and searched this forum.

However, I've not managed to find the answer to my question:

In the battle display, when selecting an unit there are coloured lines under the unit icon.
What do those mean?

I assume that they refer to damage, fatigue, poison etc. But am not sure which colour means what.

Anyone care to enlighten me or to refer me to the relevant thread?

Thanks in advance.

von Schmidt

[ February 10, 2004, 11:50: Message edited by: von_Schmidt ]

Re: Battle: coloured lines under unit icon
 

Hmm... I distinctively recall Kristoffer said that at Fatigue > 200, the unit dies...

-Gateway103

[ February 10, 2004, 14:44: Message edited by: Gateway103 ]

Re: Battle: coloured lines under unit icon
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">The mage will not cast the spell.
To cast a spell with over>200 fatigue you need to have a much higher proficiency than the required in the magic path (so that you get a fatigue reduction), use gems to reduce fatigue or lead a communion so that you drain your comunicants instead of yourself.

The mage will not purposefully suicide, this applies also to spells that cause less than 200 fatigue but would take the mage over 200 fatigue when already fatigued. The mage is not so careful about the lives of his communion slaves, the bastard. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/rolleyes.gif

Re: Battle: coloured lines under unit icon
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">There are actually three ways of taking less fatigue than printed in the spell description:

* having a higher magic level than required: for each additional level, the fatigue is divided (so if you cast a spell requiring Death 4, and you are Death 6, the spell fatigue will divided by 3 [1 base, +2 bonus levels]

* spending a gem to "power" the spell will let you cast it as if you were 1 level higher - both for reaching the required level, and to take less fatigue. I think it's limited to 1 gem for each spell.

* if you have a Communion [Sabbath (Blood) or Communion (Astral)]: each time a Master casts a spell, the fatigue is divided evenly among himself and all the Slaves. The number of Slaves also determines a bonus to all paths that each Master gets (2 Slaves: +1; 4 Slaves: +2; 8 Slaves: +3, etc.), but while this will decrease the fatigue for the master, most of the time the Slaves will be low-level and will take their full part of the fatigue.

So, imagine you want to cast Master Enslave, the highest Fatigue level spell in the game (800, Astral 8). If you have an Astral 6 Master and 4 Astral 1 Slaves, the Master is effectively Astral 8, so if he casts the spell with "only" 8 gems (the minimum), each of the 5 participants will take 160 (800/5) fatigue (plus encunbrance). They will all pass out, and if another Master starts casting as well, the Slaves are quite likely to go over 200 Fatigue and start dying.

Now, if you have the same Astral 6 Master, plus 8 Slaves, and the Master spends 9 gems (1 additional), he will be Astral 10 for the casting, so, while each Slave will take 800/9=89 Fatigue, he will only take (800/3)/9=30 Fatigue (as a result, he could go on casting spells... potentially killing the Slaves...)

Re: Battle: coloured lines under unit icon
 

The red line is for hit points loss; when it is all the way to the right, you have lost all your hit points and you die.
The blue line is for fatigue. I don't know if there is a limit, but at 100 fatigue you are unconscious, and at 200 you lose hit points.
The green line is for poison, if I understand correctly, it's the hit points that you will lose to poison in the following turns.

Re: Battle: coloured lines under unit icon
 

Thanks a lot for this very fast and useful reply.

No line for morale loss then?


von Schmidt

(good AAR btw, Tacticus).

Re: Battle: coloured lines under unit icon
 

Greater than 200 fatigue and you lose hit points? Does that mean a mage who casts a 700 fatigue battle enchantment, for example, is sacrificing himself?

Re: Battle: coloured lines under unit icon
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Not that I have seen. I think it would be a useful addition.

Re: Battle: coloured lines under unit icon
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">No, I've seen it myself, it does not die instantly. It does lose hit points. Of course, it will eventually die from it http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

The easiest way to do it is to setup a communion, and have your master cast some very high fatigue spells. The slaves take the fatigue, and can easily go over 200 and start losing hit points.

Re: Battle: coloured lines under unit icon
 

Actually this is not entirely accurate. They take damage and accrue afflictions as well.

If you can save them in time (the master's stop casting spells, Relief/Reinvigoration is cast, etc) they will just wander around crippled and feebleminded.

Re: Battle: coloured lines under unit icon
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">That's a generalization. Normal units that become that fatigued will take damage and die rapidly. I've seen some lifeless and undead units easily survive going up to some 800 fatigue totally unscathed and locking up battles in limbo-land until the autokill limit because they couldn't recover in time.

Re: Battle: coloured lines under unit icon
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">One gem per skill level actually. An astral 8 mage can cast master enslave with no communicants by spending enough extra astral pearls.

Re: Battle: coloured lines under unit icon
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Are you sure?

IIRC troops will take a few points of damage every time a 200 fatigue unit is fatigued again. A 7 gem spell will only increase fatigue to 200.

[ February 11, 2004, 15:31: Message edited by: Kristoffer O ]

Re: Battle: coloured lines under unit icon
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Actually it's 6 slaves for + 3, 8 slaves for +4. It's every two slaves you get +1 extra.

What is IIRC?

[ February 11, 2004, 15:33: Message edited by: Argitoth ]

Re: Battle: coloured lines under unit icon
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Actually it's 6 slaves for + 3, 8 slaves for +4. It's every two slaves you get +1 extra.

What is IIRC? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Nope, Argi, according to page 113 of the game manual, PhilD is correct.

If I Remember Correctly = IIRC.

[ February 11, 2004, 15:36: Message edited by: Arryn ]

Re: Battle: coloured lines under unit icon
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">There are actually three ways of taking less fatigue than printed in the spell description:

* having a higher magic level than required: for each additional level, the fatigue is divided (so if you cast a spell requiring Death 4, and you are Death 6, the spell fatigue will divided by 3 [1 base, +2 bonus levels]

* spending a gem to "power" the spell will let you cast it as if you were 1 level higher - both for reaching the required level, and to take less fatigue. I think it's limited to 1 gem for each spell.

* if you have a Communion [Sabbath (Blood) or Communion (Astral)]: each time a Master casts a spell, the fatigue is divided evenly among himself and all the Slaves. The number of Slaves also determines a bonus to all paths that each Master gets (2 Slaves: +1; 4 Slaves: +2; 8 Slaves: +3, etc.), but while this will decrease the fatigue for the master, most of the time the Slaves will be low-level and will take their full part of the fatigue.

So, imagine you want to cast Master Enslave, the highest Fatigue level spell in the game (800, Astral 8). If you have an Astral 6 Master and 4 Astral 1 Slaves, the Master is effectively Astral 8, so if he casts the spell with "only" 8 gems (the minimum), each of the 5 participants will take 160 (800/5) fatigue (plus encunbrance). They will all pass out, and if another Master starts casting as well, the Slaves are quite likely to go over 200 Fatigue and start dying.

Now, if you have the same Astral 6 Master, plus 8 Slaves, and the Master spends 9 gems (1 additional), he will be Astral 10 for the casting, so, while each Slave will take 800/9=89 Fatigue, he will only take (800/3)/9=30 Fatigue (as a result, he could go on casting spells... potentially killing the Slaves...) </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Wait wait wait ! You mean that every slave takes fatigue as if he was himself casting the spell ?
I understood that the fatigue was calculated for the casting mage (incl "extra levels" for communion), then divided.. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/confused.gif
In your case the total fatigue is 89*8+30 = 742, not much less than the base 800, and more than if the mage alone cast it (he will get 400). In this case he wouldn't be able to cast it, but the reasoning still stands for less fatiguing spells...

Re: Battle: coloured lines under unit icon
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I'm pretty sure that's what I saw explained somewhere. The slaves will take fatigue based on their own level (not augmented if they don't have the required level, fortunately).

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Basically, the Communion lets you cast more powerful spells, AND spread the fatigue around for high-fatigue spells. The more slaves, the better, especially if your slaves have some reinvigoration (which is why having a Master cast some reinvigoration is a good idea, or should be).

Keep in mind, though, that I have very little experience playing with communions. You're the one playing Pythium in a MP game...

Re: Battle: coloured lines under unit icon
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">One gem per skill level actually. An astral 8 mage can cast master enslave with no communicants by spending enough extra astral pearls. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Only the first gem (above the required gem cost if any) increases power of the spell. The others only reduce fatigue.

As an example, suppose an Anathemant Dragon (Fire-3) wishes to cast Heat from Hell (Ench 6 Fire 4, fatigue 200-, magic gems required 2). He must spend at least 3 gems to cast it at all (two for the required gem cost, and one more because he is not normally powerful enough to cast it). If he spends only 3 gems, he pays the full 200 fatigue plus his encumbrance, passing out and probably taking damage.

If he spends 4 gems, the spell takes effect at only 4 levels of power, but he now pays only 100 encumbrance because his level *for fatigue purposes only* is 5. Spending 5 gems will reduce his fatigue to 67. He cannot spend 6 gems - the maximum is 2 (required gem cost) + 3 (the Anathemant's power in fire).

Now suppose Asmodeus the Moloch, with Fire 8, wants to cast the same spell. He must spend a minimum of 2 gems, which will give him a fatigue of 40 (200 / 1 + 4 extra levels). One extra gem (three total) would raise the spell's effective power to level 9 and reduce his fatigue to 33 (200 / 1+5), two extra gems would still be power level 9 but fatigue would decrease to 28, etc. He could spend up to 8 extra gems (for a total of 10), which would raise his power level to 9 but his fatigue reduction level to 16, making his fatigue 200/(1+12) or about 15 (plus encumbrance).

If an Astral 9 Monolith casts Master Enslave (Astral 8, 800- fatigue, 8 gems required), spending the maximum possible total gems of 17, it would cast the spell at effective power level 10 (fatigue reduction level 18) and pay a fatigue cost of 800/(1+10)=73. Of course, after you cast Master Enslave it's not very likely that you will need to do much else. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: Battle: coloured lines under unit icon
 

Morale loss isn't figured on a per-unit basis. Instead, each unit has either broken or it hasn't. When enough units in a squad have broken, the squads routs.

It would be interesting to have a measure of how close a unit's squad is to retreat, but it has been stated that the morale code is a bit messy, so I doubt there will be any extensions added on to it any time soon.

Re: Battle: coloured lines under unit icon
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Indeed. I'd like to be able to see just how well a unit's Cause Fear effects are working in combat. As it presently is, I have no way of knowing whether the fear effects are making a significant contribution to routs.

Speaking of fear, is there an improved (that is, harder to make) morale roll for Cause Fear +5 than for +0, or is the difference just in area of effect?

TIA.

Re: Battle: coloured lines under unit icon
 

There was a thread with info from JK on the effects of Fear. The level increases the area of effect but I believe it also increases the effectiveness within that area. I'm not 100% sure on that Last but am about the first.