Ermor/R\'lyeh/Atlantis too weak?
 

Heehee. Now that I have your attention...
Im still messing around with the WE vs THEM map idea. Ermor "Ashen Empire", R'lyeh, and Atlantis are allied and too strong to be beaten by any single nation. All 3 start in a corner of the map with Ermor sandwiched between the other two.

SO... if I start each with 2 or 3 castle/lab/temple locations and an extra starter army (matching what they usually get), and all 3 start with Wyrm gods (kinda kewl justification there, they all came from the same nesting) is that enough to force a player alliance?

Re: Ermor/R\'lyeh/Atlantis too weak?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Can R'lyeh and Atlantis handle Ermor's dominion effects? Would it be easier to have only R'lyeh and Atlantis? The background story could be R'lyeh has taken over Atlantis by carefully placed mind-controlled pawns and declare war on the land, so that the Old Ones will return?

Re: Ermor/R\'lyeh/Atlantis too weak?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">The short answer is probably "no". And the squids will have trouble with the mindless undead, too.

Re: Ermor/R\'lyeh/Atlantis too weak?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">The short answer is probably "no". And the squids will have trouble with the mindless undead, too. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I think there is enough spread on the map Im considering that the dominion wont kill off each other. This is the map Im considering so far.
http://www.techno-mage.com/~dominion...s/WEvsTHEM.jpg

And Im not sure about the "trouble with mindless". They arent going to fight each other. They will be allied.

[ February 10, 2004, 17:20: Message edited by: Gandalf Parker ]

Re: Ermor/R\'lyeh/Atlantis too weak?
 

So it's those 3 against everyone else? Wow. That might get ... ugly for the opponents.

Re: Ermor/R\'lyeh/Atlantis too weak?
 

You don't need much work to make sure Ermor's dominion doesn't kill off his allies. Just script Ermor to use 'default' dominion, and to be 100% sure you can even force it to use growth scale. Of course, that will limit Ermor only to that dominion but, even with it, Ermor should be strong enough.

Re: Ermor/R\'lyeh/Atlantis too weak?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Thats the plan. The map is large and human players should have plenty of time to prepare. But I want it to be an alternative to Player-vs-Player games. I want it to be beatable, but only by a multi-nation alliance.

Maybe if I give both the water nations a 10-level dominion, and Ermor a 5 or 6?

Re: Ermor/R\'lyeh/Atlantis too weak?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Thats the plan. The map is large and human players should have plenty of time to prepare. But I want it to be an alternative to Player-vs-Player games. I want it to be beatable, but only by a multi-nation alliance.

Maybe if I give both the water nations a 10-level dominion, and Ermor a 5 or 6? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Ermor need the dominions strength to generate undeads. Human player can do well with a low dominion by using the magic wisely. But for AI, it could be a hard balance. You might need more play-test than the simpler cases.

But can you put Ermor somewhere away from the two? You can mess up the players with his dominion more easily that way.

Re: Ermor/R\'lyeh/Atlantis too weak?
 

The original idea was actually to have Ermor on an big island, maybe 20 provinces, protected by the water nations. Ermor would keep building up while the water nations ran interferance. If they died off later it wouldnt matter much because it gauranteed that Ermor was big.

But with this map they can all expand. Waterys can expand up the left and attack the land, and across the bottom to attack the land. They should be able to push beyond Ermors influence I think.

But Im thinking that Atlantis might be the weak spot in the formula. So maybe I should give Rlyeh and Atlanstis BOTH castles in both oceans.

Re: Ermor/R\'lyeh/Atlantis too weak?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Haha - very funny http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Why not pull a Mictlan and reduce the dominion spreading effect of Ermorian temples until it doesn't challenge the R'lyehan and Atlantean home territories? Alternatively, modify their units to counter Death the way some units counter Misfortune.

~Aldin

Re: Ermor/R\'lyeh/Atlantis too weak?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I wasnt going to move into the area of MODs. I'd rather just stick with maps.

Re: Ermor/R\'lyeh/Atlantis too weak?
 

Okay then, how about a sea wall along the three or four cornermost land provinces on either side? Or perhaps staggered sea walls all along the coasts? Denying some movement while also creating a firebreak against the spread of Dominion.

~Aldin

Re: Ermor/R\'lyeh/Atlantis too weak?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Interesting. Yes if I remove the neighbor commands between land and water in the corner then dominion wont spread that direction. And enforce pushing Ermor up the land bridge instead of getting any water before they do.

Re: Ermor/R\'lyeh/Atlantis too weak?
 

If Atlantis seems to need help, one of their starting castles could have a nice costal land province...

PvK

Re: Ermor/R\'lyeh/Atlantis too weak?
 

Im not sure if assigning the gods settings is better than leaving the 3 to pick their own gods. Assigning it means that the information becomes available after the firs time trying it. So unless the settings are so excellent and so common to what would be found in multiplayer games then Im not sure of the advantage in forcing players to play against it.

For Ermor I could take a -3 in everything but luck and magic, then use the points to push dominion. and death/blood magics as high as possible. These are actually the 3 nations I play the least so if people have suggestions then please post them.

This is a large map and I am planning it to be one where middle and late game empires will definetly be seen. Atlantis might just be early defense-gauntlet then fall out. Ryleh the same to mid-game. Then Ermor maybe have been held back and building up just to gush forth when the players finally break thru the water nations protective wall. What settings would you hate to see those nations have?

Re: Ermor/R\'lyeh/Atlantis too weak?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Blood magic requires population. I'm assuming you're planning to use Ashen Empire Ermor, so you have no population.

Re: Ermor/R\'lyeh/Atlantis too weak?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Yes Ashen seems to be the scarey theme to come up against with Ermor. And apparently the one which operates the best on automatic. If I bolster its weak points and protect it against early rush then it would seem to be a long-game opponent.