Improving Treelords
 

It seems to me that for a 50 gem summons, Treelords are not very competitive. There are already plenty of ways to get that level of nature mage, without a head slot the vine men bonus is no better a than nature three mage with a ivy crown, and the high hit points are hard to use since Treelords are immobile.

I was thinking that one way of improving Treelords would be to give them a bonus when casting ritual spells, to represent thier ancient connections with nature magic. The bonus could work like the sites that reduces the cost of ritual spells of a certain school. I also had some other ideas (increasing the vine men bonus, giving them a gem free Version of fairy trod affecting only themselves), however, I think the ritual bonus would be most thematic.

Re: Improving Treelords
 

I considered the Tree Lords to be Ents. The Ents (in the books at least) had the ability to awaken the semi-aware trees (not completely tree but no longer totally aware ents either). Some units have ways of creating free units which is a powerful increase in a units worth. Maybe the Tree Lords should be able to create .... some sort of lesser treelord? A sapling? vinemen?

[ February 11, 2004, 13:57: Message edited by: Gandalf Parker ]

Re: Improving Treelords
 

I've never used Treelords, but if they're immobile I don't think I ever will...who needs immobile lvl 4 nature mages with 250 hp ? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

As GP pointed out they look like Ents, they should have a slow movement rate (kinda 1/5).
Easy to mod .. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: Improving Treelords
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I think if thier ritual bonus was high enough they would be worthwile. With a 50% bonus you could cast global enchantments like Mother Oak or Gift of Health for bargain prices...

Re: Improving Treelords
 

Enchantment bonus is not a good idea. No one deserves to have a lesser cost of enchantments. Treelords may have an affinity to nature but it definitely doesn't mean they use less gems than anyone else. Affinity to nature might be their 4 nature magic. Another thing, treelords have nothing to do with health therefore shouldn't be casting gift of health for half the price.

Some good ideas I think are:

1. Autosummoning lesser trees per month (1 per month since you can have up to 3 treelords)
2. Movement should be 1/5

Lesser trees: Someone would have to make the lesser tree. Mindless, magical, poison resistant, size 3 or 4... some of the stats can be like 25 hp, 16 protection, 10 attack, 15 strength... these are just ideas.

Re: Improving Treelords
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Do you mean thematicly or from the point of view of balance? As far as balance, there are not very many global spells available to Treelords without empowering, and those they can cast would be available to anyone able to awaken a Treelord in the first place. I also don't see a problem with being more Treelords efficient with gems for rituals, from thier long practice with nature magic.

Re: Improving Treelords
 

Well first of all, it only costs 10 gems for them to have the ability to cast Mother Oak and Gift of Health. If treelords have an affinity to nature which allows them to cast enchanments for less, then I can say Prince of Death has an affinity to death and therefor should be able to cast Well of Misery for 40 death gems.

I doubt the affinity to nature means anything more than them having a whopping 4 nautre magic. That IS a lot of nature magic in my opinion.

[ February 11, 2004, 16:04: Message edited by: Argitoth ]

Re: Improving Treelords
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">In my opinion, treelord was underpowered in Dom 1 but in Dom 2, it's not that bad.

Two things have changed the formula. First, they now have one more level of magic, Nature 4/Earth 1, Nature 4/Blood 5 & Nature 5. The one additional magic gives them access to something previously impossible, e.g. Ironskin, Gaia's Blessing, Invulnerability (with gems?), Cross-Bleeding. Being able summon one such powerful Nature mage while your're researching for Enchantment, and thus all the domes and protection spells, is not bad. Spells for nature mage of similar power are at high level Conjuration, at least 6.

Second, nature is now more useful in combat with the additional spells. In my test, a single treelord (the Dying Treelord) with no item can take out a weak indie with 40 to 50 light infantries plus archers, killing them to the Last man. It's not impressive but it shows him being useful enough in combat. The Treelords have 250 hitpoints, Protection 16 to 20 and easy access to regeneration and healing spells. It's not trivial to hack one down even though their defense if 0. If you choose to prophetize one, he can easily have up to 500 hitpoints.

Faery Trod is also in Enchantment school. So, for research in a single school, you can get Treelords, protection Domes and teleportation for a small number of troops. It's not a bad deal.

Not sure whether it's thematic, but to increase their power, it's better to give them one or two hand slots and thus access the nature enhancing items.

[ February 11, 2004, 16:46: Message edited by: ywl ]

Re: Improving Treelords
 

Sounds to me like the best, and easiest, solution would be to make treelord movement 1/2. Slow, but mobile.

Re: Improving Treelords
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">im up for that. maybe at least 3 movement http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Remember though, THESE ARE NOT ENTS from lord of the rings. "Lord of the Rings" ents would have like a movement of 3/15. Those things move fast.

Re: Improving Treelords
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Since it takes at least a 4 nature mage to summon them, you don't really gain anything from it. Pangaea and Man(Crones have 3?) both have easy access to 4 nature, 5 with a thistle mace, so you don't gain much by summoning a treelord instead of going for the enchantments directly.

Re: Improving Treelords
 

An addition that I don't feel would be overpowered or in any way effect how the balance of the Treelord is given, while at the same time giving them a reason for nature mages to summon them would be:

Give them a base Nature Gem Income of +~5.

Suddenly they are a Nature Mage with their own source of gems to cast their own spells.

Another Idea would be to have the Province that the Treelord is in, protected by a Forest Dome.

Re: Improving Treelords
 

An alternative could perhaps be to let them have an ability identical to Faery Trod (but which doesn't cost gems)?

Re: Improving Treelords
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Actually, I mentioned that in my first post http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Improving Treelords
 

I believe they should be allowed to summon ents which could be stronger and tougher then vinemen but cost 3 gems when being summoned.

Of course that means the devs would have to create a whole new unit... not sure if they're up for that since they have 95% of the money this game will ever earn.

Re: Improving Treelords
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Wouldn't Huorns be more appropriate? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Improving Treelords
 

Well, I think they'd be pretty good if the effectiveness with which they summoned Vinemen was drastically improved: What if they could summon Vinemen as "summon allies" instead of using gems at all, and they would appear in larger quantities?

Re: Improving Treelords
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Actually, I mentioned that in my first post http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Ack, so you did. Ummmmm. It was the succubs that made me do it. I swear!

Re: Improving Treelords
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Summon will be pointless since it'll take up the Treelord's time. Attract automatically sounds interesting though.

The Treelords alread have greater efficiency for summoning Ogres. Regular casting of the spell get one Ogre. The following is the common bonus:
Ivy Crown: +1
Treelord Staff: +1 (I think it was +2 in Dom 1)
Treelords: +2
Dying Treelord (5 nature one): +3
Ivy King: +3

The bonus is not bad. Three Ogres for one gem in each casting is worthwhile. But to get Ogres, Ivy King is a better deal escpecially because he can also use the Treelord Staff.

Re: Improving Treelords
 

Having the treelord summon/attract 1 vine ogre per turn would be a nice boost.

The vine ogres are worthwhile to have, but not to summon. The summoning speed is too low to be worth a mage's time. They are decent units if you have a number of them though.

Re: Improving Treelords
 

Treelords summoning or rather awakening lesser trees is a good idea. Those guys should move slow, have average protection, more than average strengh and they should be succeptiable (?!?) to fire.

I posted this because i played Pangaea lately and summoned all 3 treelords. they definitly miss something, with 5 nsture, 1 blood 4 nature or 1 earth 4 nature they are just not worth it imho.

Re: Improving Treelords
 

Patch 2.08 has made Faery Trod unusable by the Treelords...