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Turn by Turn by Zen (Atlantis)
This is a Turn by Turn "AAR".
It is only barely categorized as an AAR and has nothing to do with the fantasy or storytelling form of writing in the context I am using it (i.e. No "Ruprickt the Grand storms the fort with his mighty Fork of Despair with his oinkish legions." etc). It is purely information that I would hope those who are a little lost might edge into the thought processes of playing the game in a competitive enviroment and the multitude of options and why I chose them. Note: I deliberately did not choose a finely honed pretender design. That is to mean, I did not choose what I would normally choose if going into a competitive game, but rather a 'fun' design set with competitive scales in order to better utilize and show different aspects of the game. Second Note: In competitive games the settings are normally set to disable score graphs, so I will not use the common SP tactic of using and abusing the score graph 'intelligence'. The only reason I have looked at the score graph was to indicate my position on it with kills. Third Note: On request I will send you the savefile of the game, so you may have a look at it yourself. Send requests to me via Email. Fourth Note: I will only be doing this Turn by Turn as long as I feel there is something left to be shown as far as thinking and application in the game (This will more than likely be around ~25-30). I have no intention of finishing the game. Zen the Dagon Clever eh? 3 Water, 2 Nature 3 Order, 3 Production, 2 Misfortune, 1 Magic Kelp Citadel (80 Points, 40 Admin) Dominion 6 The Desert Eye Independent Strength 6 Magical Site Frequency 50 7 AI set to Impossible, including R'lyeh Turn 1 Recruit: 1x Coral Queen 6x Coral Guard Research: Alteration – 0 RP Target: None Action: Place Taxes on Atlantis (Home Province) to 130% Place Shubbaruth the Consort / x5 Reef Warrior, x20 Atlantian Spearmen on Patrol Yakt Hoob the Scout given Retreat Orders at Rear of Formation Box, set to Move to Storm Woods (North Land Province) Zen the Dagon set to Forge – Ice Sword Reasons: Taxes to create immediate cash flow, Patrol to counter Taxes, Scout to give a completely accurate defense of at least one province. Research options are either Enchantment 2 for Water Shield and Personal Regeneration or Alteration 2 for Quickness and Barkskin – I chose Alteration. Scout sent to Land province as Water Provinces are more likely to have Tritons which will kill him before he may retreat. Dagon Forges Ice Sword for increased Defense. Turn 2 Messages: Unexpected Event – +100 Gold Battle - Storm Woods (North Land) – Defense = 3 Commander, 27 Units (33% HI, 33% Xbow, 33% Militia) – Result Retreat. Patrolling Troops have killed 5 Brigands (0 Unrest) Results from Battle: Yakt Hoob enters the HoF. Ability = Iron Will (+2 MR) Recruit: (Scales have not adjusted) 1x Deep Seer 5x Coral Guard Research: 0 RP Target: Oceania (30 Units, Tritons), Nariun Sea (20 Units, Mermen) Action: Yakt Hoob the Scout set to move to Pack Woods (East Land) Shubbaruth the Consort kept on Patrol Place Taxes on Atlantis to 100% Zen the Dagon given Attack Closest Orders set to Front Center of Formation Box, set to move to Nariun Sea (Southwest) Madema the Coral Queen given Fanaticism x5, Cast Spells Orders set to Center of Formation Box / 5 Reef Warrior, x 20 Atlantian Spearmen, x6 Coral Guard given Attack Closest Orders set to Center of Formation Box, set to move to Oceania (Northwest) Reasons: The Dagon is a very strong Initial Combatant. Initial expansion cannot wait as I require resources to produce a significant # of troops in order to overwhelm R’lyeh when I come into contact with him. Normally I would not attack singularly with my Pretender, but the opportunity of the Nariun Sea is too much to resist. Even if it is off by 50% undervalued, it will be 30 Mermen and I am confidant in my Dagon’s abilities. Current formation is to protect Queen from initial brunt with the spearmen then counterattack them and have Queen provide morale that the spearmen will need from any poison damage they may be taking. Turn 3 Messages: Proclamation from R’lyeh, a Starspawn is his Prophet Battle – Oceania. Defense = 1 Commander, 24 Triton (100% Triton) – Result Win - Losses: x2 Coral Guard, x2 Atlantian Spearmen Battle – Nariun Sea. Defense = 1 Commander, 13 Units (100% Merman) – Result Win - Losses: None, no Afflictions. Battle – Pack Woods. Defense = 2 Commander, 49 Units – Result Retreat - (50% Ichtyid, 50% Ichtyid Warrior) Recruit: (Scales still unadjusted for Production and Order) 1x Deep Seer 7x Coral Guard Research: Enchantment – 8 RP Target: Wailing Waters (40 Units, Triton Troopers) Action: Oceania Taxes set to 90% (7 Unrest) Nariun Sea Taxes set to 80% (11 Unrest) Yakt Hoob the Scout set to move to Dunheim (South Land) Zen the Dagon given Attack Closest Orders set to Front Center of Formation Box, set to move to Wailing Waters (Northwest) Madema the Coral Queen / 5 Reef Warrior, x 18 Atlantian Spearmen, x4 Coral Guard given Attack Closest Orders set to Center of Formation Box, set to move to Wailing Waters (Southwest) Ygh’yga the Deep Seer set to Research Reasons: I choose my taxes in order to clear away the unrest immediately, then I can often tell if there is a site that produces unrest. This can give me an edge up if I know what type of site it is (Death, Blood, etc). My scouting of the Land provinces nearby is so I know where I need to take a foothold so I can cross to the opposite sea (I am in the center set of 4 water provinces on The Desert Eye). I attacked Wailing Waters with my combined forces because Triton Troopers can stay fairly long in combat, poisoning more and more of my troops (and killing them because of their low HP) so I use the Dagon’s fear and trample to rout them quickly. I have not chosen a Prophet yet simply because I have been too busy and I am giving a hero a chance to arrive (a rare occurrence). Turn 4 Messages: Proclamation from Jotunheim, a Jotun Herse is his Prophet. (A most beloved hero, so he is in the HoF) Battle – Wailing Waters – Defense = 1 Commander, 31 Units (100% Triton Troopers) – Result Win – Losses: 1x Atlantian Spearmen, No Afflictions. Battle – Dunheim – Defense = 4 Commander, 45 Units (33% Milita, 33% HI, 33% Archers) Results from Battle: Madema enters the HoF. Ability = Lightning Reflexes (+2 Def) Recruit: (Scales still unadjusted) 1x Initiate of the Deep 7x Coral Guard Research: Alteration – 16 RP Target: None. Action: Nariun Sea Taxes set to 90% (9 Unrest) Wailing Waters Taxes set to 90% (9 Unrest) 1 Province Defense placed in Oceania, Nariun Sea, Wailing Waters Yakt Hoob the Scout set to sneak to Atlantis Zen the Dagon set to Move to Nariun Sea (Southeast) Madema the Coral Queen / 5 Reef Warrior, x 17 Atlantian Spearmen, x4 Coral Guard set to move to Nariun Sea (Southeast) Shubbaruth the Consort (+1 Water Gem) / 12 Coral Guard set to move to Nariun Sea (Southwest) Qithas the Deep Seer set to Research Reasons: As you can see the scale non-adjustment is hurting my fragile economy. Luckily I am still able to produce enough units in order to survive my initial expansion, albeit slowly. The center sea of my area is The Darks. It has Ichythid and Ichythid Warriors around ~70. In order to be safe I am reinforcing my troops and getting a water gem in order to cast Friendly Currents to tip the scales in my advantage during the battle so I have a lower attrition rate. Also after The Darks I am unable to take any more safe sea provinces, so I will have to breach land and I have to prepare for that. The other primary reason I have not adjusted my Recruitment is that I have to go on land soon and any War Lobsters would be uselessly trapped in this sea. War Shamblers are too expensive right now with my unadjusted scales so I will have to make Coral Guards work for me. Turn 5 Messages: Research in Alteration Completed Recruit: (Scales still unadjusted) 1x Initiate of the Deep 8x Coral Guard Research: Alteration 1 – 20 RP Target: The Darks (90 Units, Icthyids, Icthyid Warriors) Action: Oceania set to 100% Tax (0 Unrest) Yakt Hoob the Scout set to sneak to Pack Woods Shubbaruth the set to move to Atlantis Zen the Dagon given Friendly Current, Barkskin, Attack Rearmost Orders set to Front Right Flank of Troop Block set to Move to The Dark (North) Madema the Coral Queen / 5 Reef Warrior, x 17 Atlantian Spearmen, x16 Coral Guard given Hold and Attack Orders in Front Center of Formation Box, set to move to Nariun Sea (Southeast) Ctenophoros the Initiate of the Deep set to Research Reasons: My Scout is moving to check the opposite side of the land bridge to see that when I clear it I know what I am facing. My troop placement is to minimize loss, while at the same time letting my Dagon affect the combat. Turn 6 Messages: Proclamation from Machaka, a Spider Lord is his Prophet. Battle – The Dark – Defense = 2 Commander, 68 Units (50% Ichythid, 50% Ichythid Warrior) – Result: Win – Losses: x2 Reef Warrior, x4 Atlantian Spearmen, No Afflictions Recruit: (+1 Order, +1 Prod in effect, Dominion must finally be kicking in) 1x Deep Seer 7x Coral Guard Research: Alteration 1 – 16 RP Enchantment 0 – 4 RP Target: None Action: The Darks set to 80% Tax (16 Unrest) 1 Province Defense placed in The Darks Yakt Hoob the Scout set to sneak to Sea of Rond Gorinigai the Initiate of the Deep set to Forge – Ice Sword Zen the Dagon set to move to Atlantis Madema the Coral Queen / 3 Reef Warrior, x 13 Atlantian Spearmen, x16 Coral Guard set to move to Atlantis Shubbaruth the set to Patrol Reasons: Forging another Ice Sword for the Dagon for defense. Changing my research path after Alteration 2 to Enchantment (for Water Shield and Personal Regeneration). I will be consolidating my forces in Atlantis to make the land jump which is due East of the capital. Turn 7 Messages: Research in Alteration Completed Recruit: (Order +1, Productivity +1, No Change) 1x Deep Seer 3x Coral Guard Research: Alteration 2 – 0 RP Enchantment 0 – 32 RP Target: Pack Woods (70 Units, Icthyid and Icthyid Warrior) Action: Wailing Water and Nariun Sea set to 100% Tax (0 Unrest) Gorinigai the Initiate of the Deep set to Research Baot Zuggogg the Deep Seer set to Research Zen the Dagon given Quickness, Barkskin, Attack Rearmost Orders set to Front Right Flank of Troop Block set to move to Pack Woods (East) Madema the Coral Queen / 3 Reef Warrior, x 13 Atlantian Spearmen, x38 Coral Guard given Hold and Attack Orders in Front Center of Formation Box, set to move to Pack Woods (East) Yakt Hoob the Scout set to sneak to Sea of Silence (North) Reasons: Scout reports from the Sea of Rond give information that the Province is defended by Sea Trolls and Krakens and commanded by Shark Bane the Sea King. So I am going to hold off on attacking that particular province in order to see if there is another way to jump into the Water. There is some Dominion spreading from the southeast as well as the far north. But as of right now I’m unconcerned as I try to focus on taking over the sea. Turn 8 Messages: Research in Enchantment Completed Unexpected Event - +200 Gold Unexpected Event – Superstition in The Darks Battle – Pack Woods – Defense = 2 Commander, 69 Units (50% Ichtyid, 50% Ichtyid Warrior) – Result Win – Losses: 2 Atlantian Spearmen Recruit: (+1 Order, +2 Productivity… ) 1x King of the Deep 8x Coral Guard Research: Alteration 2 – 0 RP Enchantment 1 – 24 RP Conjuration 0 – 8 RP Target: Storn Wood (See above) Actions: The Darks set to 50% Tax (31 Unrest) Pack Woods set to 50% Tax (27 Unrest) Rimshaikot the Deep Seer set to Research Zen the Dagon given Quickness, Barkskin, Attack Rearmost Orders set to Front Right Flank of Troop Block set to move to Storn Woods (North) Madema the Coral Queen / 3 Reef Warrior, x 13 Atlantian Spearmen, x38 Coral Guard given Attack Closest Orders in Front Center of Formation Box, set to move to Storn Woods (North) Yakt Hoob the Scout set to move to Ireme (East of Storn Woods, North of Pack Woods) Turn 9 Messages: Research in Enchantment Completed Proclamation from Mictlan, a Priest King is his Prophet Battle – Storn Woods – Defense = 3 Commander, 27 Units (33% Militia, 33% HI, 33% Xbow) – Result Win – Losses: 1x Reef Warrior, 2x Coral Guard, 3x Atlantian Spearman, No Afflictions Battle – Ireme – Defense = 3 Commander, 42 Units (40% Militia 30% HI, 30% Xbow) – Result Retreat Result from Battle: I should probably mention that Zen the Dagon now has 2 Stars of Experience with 88 kills under his belt and 98 experience. Top of the Hall of Fame and a likely candidate for Vengeance of the Dead Recruit: (+1 Order, +2 Productivity… ) 1x Initiate of the Deep 9x Coral Guard Research: Alteration 2 – 0 RP Enchantment 2 – 0 RP Conjuration 0 – 48 RP Target: Ireme (See above) Kratas (50 Units, Militia, Heavy Infantry) Action: Pack Woods and The Darks set to 80% Tax (11 and 15 Unrest respectively) Storn Woods set to 80% Tax (14 Unrest) Yakt Hoob the Scout set to move to Sea of Rond (East) Shamem the King of the Deep set to Research Zen the Dagon given Quickness, Personal Regeneration, Barkskin Attack Rearmost Orders set to Front Right Flank of Troop Block set to move to Ireme Madema the Coral Queen / x2 Reef Warrior, x 7 Atlantian Spearmen, x34 Coral Guard given Attack Closest Orders in Front Center of Formation Box, set to move to Kratas Reasons: Now that I have Water Shield, Quickness, Barkskin, and Personal Regeneration my Dagon is a decent Underwater fighter and until I see R’leyh. My research is now geared towards Conjuration. My immediate goal is Voice of Tiamat and Lesser Water Elementals then I will need to go to Construction in order to equip MR boosting equipment. As a note, Vanheim has appeared in Hesperia (Northwest of Oceania) which I don’t consider an immediate threat. My immediate decision is how I’m going to store an amount of gold for another Kelp Citadel when I land in the water over the Land Bridge. [ February 12, 2004, 23:39: Message edited by: Zen ] |
Re: Turn by Turn by Zen (Atlantis)
Well I suppose you already know the trick but... One nice thing with Atlantis is to set the Coral Queen as prophet. This way you will probably Smite your way through the contest of the champion and get her the nice trident.
Of course if no contest... your stuck with a still nice prophet http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif |
Re: Turn by Turn by Zen (Atlantis)
Zen, I would like to thank you very much for posting this...especially considering it's a map I'm familiar with from the demo. This is great info for a new player like me, and I'm appreciative of the level of detail you've put into this so far.
A big thumbs up from a newbie. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif |
Re: Turn by Turn by Zen (Atlantis)
Water 3? What are you thinking? For 16 dp you get water 4, a +2 defense to Atlantis's very powerful sacred units. Why would you choose 6 dominion and 3 water?
Baka baka baka! |
Re: Turn by Turn by Zen (Atlantis)
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Re: Turn by Turn by Zen (Atlantis)
nice writeup
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Re: Turn by Turn by Zen (Atlantis)
I'm sure Zen ingored the water4 blessing since the sacred units are a bit on the slow poke side of things and not worth investing in if you don't have a bless9. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif
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Re: Turn by Turn by Zen (Atlantis)
Fun write-up Zen, enjoying it.
Hey Cherry, I had a friend with the Last name of Chu who picked a screen name of ChuBaka. We all thought it was a nod to Star Wars... turns out we were the stupid ones http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif ~Aldin |
Re: Turn by Turn by Zen (Atlantis)
Excellent write up so far Zen. I greatly appreciate you taking the time to do this, as you seem to be one of the most knowledgable forumers and hence should be able to offer some good insight into both short term and long term strategies (I hope).
I too am curious about your prentender motivations. The dagon is obviously a good combat pretender, but I wouldn't mind a sentence or two explaining your magic choices (i.e. why did you choose those specific paths and what influenced the amount of each path you took? Spell casting goals? Flexibility for casting certain schools? Forging requirements? A challenge (for those wondering why not water 4)? Eagerly awaiting the rest of this aar! |
Re: Turn by Turn by Zen (Atlantis)
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The obvious and most apparently striking reason that he went with W3/N2, instead of W4/N1 is that he wanted Personal Regeneration, which is nature-2. Therefore, it looks like he's doing the school of pretender design based on what spells he can cast in combat, sort of like what he told Arryn to do. [ February 12, 2004, 19:10: Message edited by: Norfleet ] |
Re: Turn by Turn by Zen (Atlantis)
Alright, since I can't seem to escape it http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif
The reason I chose the Dagon is his obvious immediate advantage. You can nearly always send him out on turn 2 solo to a nearby province if you have a decent selection. Had I been given a little more leeway in my starting position I would have been able to exploit this a little more, but as it stands I was unlucky (not really a big surprise). His paths were thought of in this light. After I chose my scales (I personally pick scales and theme before pretender paths). Decided I wanted to go with a high production strategy in order to take advantage of a land based war. Also with R'lyeh in the game I wanted the significant advantage of being able to recruit an immediate horde of units to soak up mind bLasts. With my scales decided, I then looked at my pretender. With the points I had left, I had one of two options. A.) 4 in Water 1 in Another Path or B.) 3 in Water 2 in Another Path. Now the one of the inherent strength of the Atlantis nation is their quick water gem supply (thus letting you, if you choose take provinces with Deep Seer's by speedresearching Conjuration). I decided that I would not go that approach as it would limit the expansion of my Dagon and lower his survivability because I would not be able to take advantage of any immediate buffing spells. So in Order for my Dagon to be viable as a combatant he needs to be able to cast his buffing spells and not be overtly fatigued in order to use his Trample (which uses alot of Fatigue). So the choice of 3 Water, 2 Other was apparently, I simply had to decide which 2 the Other would be. My initial reaction is Air. But I've already played that particular Dagon (who is very effective). 2 Air will let me Mistform, Mirror Image and Cloud Trapeze. Also gives me an assured forger of Flying Boots. But I've already played that Dagon so I pass. My second reaction is Earth. With 2 Earth you could Summon Earthpower, Ironskin and eventually Invulnerability (though with a fatigue hit). But I decide against Earth as well because it just doesn't feel right. My third reaction is Blood. Atlantis is unique in the light that it almost never counted as a Blood Nation and seeing a Turn 15 Ice Devil would be nice. But as I think more, the intricacies of Blood Hunting both detailing in an AAR and the nations setup keeps me from it. In order to have a reasonable Ice Devil production and equipment I'd have to have more King's of the Deep than I could reasonably aqquire with good random picks and lucky with the Voice of Tiamat. So for now I pass, but maybe in the future with a different pretender I'll look into hyper-quick Atlantis Blood. So my Last option is to pick Nature. Nature seems interesting because I've had great success with Quickness, Bone Melter. It has access to Personal Regeneration, Elemental Fortitude, Living Castle (50 Nature gems for a free Citadel) and Foul Vapors. So with that, I chose Nature. With the Random Picks of the King of the Deep and the way the game goes, I can't count on any one particular aspect of the game to remain constant (Will I have enough Gold to recruit enough Kings of the Deep to fill my missing holes?, Will Misfortune take me for a nose-dive? I don't need Nature because I can get Amazons (but never do), etc) I am going to just play it and see. And voila! Zen the Dagon, similiar to, but not unlike his brother Phish the Dagon with Air http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif Also a note on the Prophetlessness of my Current Nation. I know what entails and benefits making a prophet. My feelings are that Atlantis has a hard time with Morale initially because Tritons cause alot of morale issues (as well as poison and attrition to poison) and in my experience my Coral Queen is regulated to Fantacism duty 90% of the time. If I stopped my expansion at this point to make my current Queen a Prophet it would not impact much the current battles. I could make my scout a prophet in order to spread Dominion, but I am fairly firm in the underwater temple strategy of dominion spreading. So for now it waits and my nation is not hurt by not having a prophet. [ February 12, 2004, 21:03: Message edited by: Zen ] |
Re: Turn by Turn by Zen (Atlantis)
Turn 9
Messages: Research in Enchantment Completed Proclamation from Mictlan, a Priest King is his Prophet Battle – Storn Woods – Defense = 3 Commander, 27 Units (33% Militia, 33% HI, 33% Xbow) – Result Win – Losses: 1x Reef Warrior, 2x Coral Guard, 3x Atlantian Spearman, No Afflictions Battle – Ireme – Defense = 3 Commander, 42 Units (40% Militia 30% HI, 30% Xbow) – Result Retreat Result from Battle: I should probably mention that Zen the Dagon now has 2 Stars of Experience with 88 kills under his belt and 98 experience. Top of the Hall of Fame and a likely candidate for Vengeance of the Dead Recruit: (+1 Order, +2 Productivity… ) 1x Initiate of the Deep 9x Coral Guard Research: Alteration 2 – 0 RP Enchantment 2 – 0 RP Conjuration 0 – 48 RP Target: Ireme (See above) Kratas (50 Units, Militia, Heavy Infantry) Action: Pack Woods and The Darks set to 80% Tax (11 and 15 Unrest respectively) Storn Woods set to 80% Tax (14 Unrest) Yakt Hoob the Scout set to move to Sea of Rond (East) Shamem the King of the Deep set to Research Zen the Dagon given Quickness, Personal Regeneration, Barkskin Attack Rearmost Orders set to Front Right Flank of Troop Block set to move to Ireme Madema the Coral Queen / x2 Reef Warrior, x 7 Atlantian Spearmen, x34 Coral Guard given Attack Closest Orders in Front Center of Formation Box, set to move to Kratas Reasons: Now that I have Water Shield, Quickness, Barkskin, and Personal Regeneration my Dagon is a decent Underwater fighter and until I see R’leyh. My research is now geared towards Conjuration. My immediate goal is Voice of Tiamat and Lesser Water Elementals then I will need to go to Construction in order to equip MR boosting equipment. As a note, Vanheim has appeared in Hesperia (Northwest of Oceania) which I don’t consider an immediate threat. My immediate decision is how I’m going to store an amount of gold for another Kelp Citadel when I land in the water over the Land Bridge. Turn 10 Messages: Research in Conjuration Completed Battle – Ireme – Defense = 3 Commander, 42 Units (40% Militia 30% HI, 30% Xbow) – Result Win – Losses: 0, No Afflictions Battle – Kratas – Defense = 4 Commander, 41 Units (40% Militia 30% HI, 30% Xbow) – Result Win – Losses: 1x Reef Warrior, 10x Coral Guard, 4x Atlantian Spearmen Battle – Sea of Rond – Defense = 1 Commander, 42 Units (60% Sea Troll, 40% Kraken) – Result Retreat Recruit: (+1 Order, +2 Productivity …) 1x Deep Seer 9x Coral Guard Research: Alteration 2 – 0 RP Enchantment 2 – 0 RP Conjuration 1 – 2 RP Construction 0 – 50 RP Target: Sea of Silence (See above) Actions: Pack Woods, Storn Woods, The Dark set to 90% Tax (3, 8, 7 Unrest respectively) Ireme set to 80% Tax (14 Unrest) 1 Province Defense set to Pack Woods, Storn Woods, Ireme Equanok the Initiate of the Deep set to Research Zen the Dagon given Quickness, Personal Regeneration, Water Shield, Breath of Winter given Attack Rearmost Orders set to Front Center Formation Block set to move to Sea of Silence Madema the Coral Queen / x24 Coral Guard set to move to Ireme Shubbaruth the Consort / x20 Coral Guard set to move to Pack Woods Yakt Hoob the Scout set to sneak to Sea of Silence (East) Reasons: I adjust my research to Construction in order to augment my initial income with a few Clams as well as quicker MR gear. I have been more and more reliant on my Dagon to expand because the Land bridge has slowed my advance and my scales have not adjusted very well. I order to have him ready to fight R’lyeh I will need to have a high MR in order to resist the Paralyze/Mind BLast hurdles they are going to throw at me. I have been unlucky as far as land provinces as well, no scouts (out of 4 provinces) that I may recruit. As a Water Nation I have a little more relaxed of an approach to land provinces and neighbors (especially since this is the AI). More often than not I wait for a land province with a castle on the coast before I make an active attempt to secure large land areas and this is true in this game as I am less inclined to start fighting with land nations and R’lyeh at the same time. Turn 11 Messages: Research in Conjuration Completed Battle – Sea of Silence – Defense = 2 Commander, 53 Units (50% Ichytid, 50% Ichytid Warrior) – Result Win – Losses: 0, No Afflictions Unexpected Event – +Lab in Storn Woods Recruit: (Order 1, Production 3… ) 1x Deep Seer Research: Alteration 2 – 0 RP Enchantment 2 – 5 RP Conjuration 2 – 0 RP Construction 0 – 47 RP Target: Nuptia (~30 Units, Icthyid, Icthyid Warrior) Action: Pack Woods set to 90% Tax (3 Unrest) Ireme set to 90% Tax (7 Unrest) Sea of Silence set to 80% Tax (13 Unrest) Torgrel Beg the Deep Seer / x9 Coral Guard set to move to Pack Woods Yakt Hoob the Scout set to sneak to Nuptia (Southeast) Zen the Dagon given Summon Water Power, Quickness, Personal Regeneration, Water Shield, Breath of Winter given Attack Rearmost Orders set to Rearmost Center Formation Block set to move to Nuptia Madema the Coral Queen / x2 Reef Guard, x3 Atlantian Spearmen, x24 Coral Guard set to move to Sea of Silence Shubbaruth the Consort / x20 Coral Guard set to move to Ireme Reasons: The Dagon with Water Shield and Regeneration and Quickness can do very well against most Underwater Independants. The only real issue you run into is if he can stand an initial assult from a mass of Tritons (Depends on Equipment and Dominion). I chose to opt for Icthyids because they give me more time to put up by defensive spells in order to take them solo. You’ll notice my research didn’t jump in Construction, that is because I misclicked Enchantment instead of Construction. C’est la vie. Mictlan has shown his ugly face south in Holburg (South of Atlantis) and Machaka has popped up in Typhia (North of Sea of Silence). Machaka has a fairly strong Dominion as it already covers the Sea of Silence. I will more than likely need to put up a buffering Temple near in order to keep his Dominion from taking over water provinces that I require for my Dagon’s HP and MR bonus. Turn 12 Messages: Research in Construction Completed Research in Enchantment Completed Tien Chi has declared War on me Battle – Nuptia – Defense = 2 Commander, 39 Units (50% Ichytid, 50% Ichytid Warrior) – Result Win – Losses: 0, No Afflictions Recruit: 1x Initiate of the Deep Research: Alteration 2 – 0 RP Enchantment 3 – 0 RP Conjuration 2 – 0 RP Construction 1 – 60 RP Action: The Darks and Pack Woods set to 100% Tax (0 Unrest) Ireme set to 90% Tax (5 Unrest) Nuptia set to 80% Tax (13 Unrest) Ululu the Deep Seer set to Research Shubbaruth the Consort / x20 Coral Guard set to move to The Sea of Silence Torgrel Beg the Deep Seer set to Search for Magical Sites Yakt Hoob the Scout set to Construct Fortress Madema the Coral Queen / x2 Reef Guard, x3 Atlantian Spearmen, x24 Coral Guard set in Center Block Formation to move to The Sea Untamed Zen the Dagon given Quickness, Water Shield, given Attack Rearmost Orders set to Center Formation Block set to move to The Sea Untamed Reasons: I built a Kelp Citadel in Nuptia as it has access to most all the Water provinces surrounding as well as a 3 Land Provinces that are currently under control of Tien Chi. There is a chokepoint of sea to the Southeast which I would rather put it in, but the length of my reinforcements from my capital is forcing my hand. I need another center of troop production as soon as possible so this will have to do. Though it is worth noting that the Sea of Rond (The one with a pile of trolls and Kraken) is on one side which makes Nuptia an effective chokepoint until someone takes the resources to take that heavily defended province. My research is starting to take shape but it is spread. My usual playstyle of concentrating my Paths to fit Schools (Primarily Alteration) does not fit this particular Dagon very well since he is required to get Enchantment 2 for Personal Regeneration. In the future I will take more consideration whether or not I choose Nature for that reason as I feel I am behind in Construction (and Clams). Turn 13 … To be announced Empire Update – Total Provinces = 12 (4 Land, 8 Underwater) Total Fortresses = 1 (1 In Progress) Total Upkeep = 170 Total Income = 644 Total Gem Income = 5 Water Analysis: I am doing poorly. I have a lot of work to do to catch up. My initial position and research choices have put me in a position weaker than normal. Gem Income is low, but not unthinkable given that I am waiting to use Voice of Tiamat to search underwater provinces. This might be adjusted if possible in future games with Atlantis where you do not have to split your research so wide. [ February 12, 2004, 23:40: Message edited by: Zen ] |
Re: Turn by Turn by Zen (Atlantis)
Please Note:
If you have any questions regarding why I have done something and it's not clear in the "Reasons:" section, please speak up. I play mainly by habit, meaning there is a certain level of things I automatically do, based on playing the game. Sometimes I overlook why, especially if I'm not paying attention, I do certain things that I don't explain. |
Re: Turn by Turn by Zen (Atlantis)
I've been trying out your basic strategy with the same pretender and scales to try and get a feel for your choices Zen, and have a few questions after about 30 games of ~5-7 turns each:
1) How might have your opening been different had you not been hit by the Order/Prod scale zeroing bug? 2) Coral guard are incredibly slow, which is fine when they are fighting tritons, but they get decimated by land armies it seems (either by arrows or just javelins/steel). Why are these guys useful (and on a related note, why would one ever build the less armored Versions other than cost?) 3) You say your position is weaker than normal. What would you consider normal at this stage? 4) You seem to have been fairly lucky in combat so far, taking fairly low losses and no afflictions on Zen. In my experience I've had difficulty reproducing this success, often because there are no "easy" independents within reach. Is your success a function of some good luck, or something I'm overlooking (good scouting info, learned experience (i.e. ichthyids are easier than trolls), etc)? As a similar question, when I get afflictions on the pretender, it is often Lost an Eye or Limp, both of which greatly hamper his combat ability. If you end up with an affliction, what are your plans for your pretender? 5) Another hypothetical question, but I've experienced it and wondered how you'd cope: say you grossly underestimate a province defense and lose 90% or more of your prophet's force and/or your pretender. Aside from starting over (which is what I've been doing as I get a feel for things), how would you cope with such a huge set back? Probably some more to come. I'm enjoying this AAR immensely and find it very informative. I look forward to the rest of it and any others you might someday write. |
Re: Turn by Turn by Zen (Atlantis)
Great posting - thx Zen.
By the way: Would you or anybody who understands blood magic care to write a similar turn by turn guide for a nation based heavily on blood magic (like Mictlan)? It might just be me but I have avoided all blood nations due to not being sure about their strategy. If their is already a AAR for Mictlan (didnt find any) please let me know. |
Re: Turn by Turn by Zen (Atlantis)
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BTW, Jotunheim is a so-called "Blood" nation, but I don't use Blood magics (a personal quirk). [ February 15, 2004, 12:23: Message edited by: Arryn ] |
Re: Turn by Turn by Zen (Atlantis)
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I don't think Arryn would ever be able to play Mictlan, though, with such squeamishness towards playing blood. Mictlan is entirely about blood and you couldn't possibly do without it. |
Re: Turn by Turn by Zen (Atlantis)
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Re: Turn by Turn by Zen (Atlantis)
Sorry for the Delay, I wanted to do another round of turns (up to say 17 or 18) but it just doesn't look like it's going to happen as of right now. So I'll answer a few questions then post more on the Turn by Turn later.
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The Reef Warrior has no shield, so he will get mowed down by archers on land (morso than the Guards do). Land Provinces at this point are a liability until I can focus my attention away from the Sea, so there is no point in dealing with that particular aspect since Diplomacy is regulated to giving gold/gems/items (against the AI). Quote:
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Even an Eye or a Limp would still make the Dagon a decent combatant, since he has the ability to trample. If he ever became a liability in combat I would regulate him to Research/Summoning/Forging (more than likely the latter). Quote:
A while ago, I started playing by killing my pretender so that I had to rely specifically on the nation in order to succeed. This has made my transition away from that considerably easier. It has also altered my perception of building Pretenders. As if you don't spend an incredible amount of points on them, the loss of him dying doesn't impact your game as much as if you made a Bless Effect Pretender. |
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