Caelum
 

Any good strategies for them that would be viable? can't think of any myself, i dont like that their sacred unit is walking not flying and that Ravenwhatever switch has no regular holy units whatsoever just commanders.

Re: Caelum
 

Caelum works well with the "Holy bolts of Marignon" trick. That is, run a air10 pretender which renders your blessed units almost impervious to missiles and then use those high precision archers of Caelum on Fire Closest.

A number of iceclads kept in the rear and set to "hold and attack archers" will make short work of most leaders and pesky archers while your main forces deal with the infantery.

Since your pointmen would also be invulnerable to lightning and cold you can let loose all kinds of trouble with spells and summons without worry about attrition.

Mix ordinary wingless with mammoths, to improve the tramplers morale, and use this force to flatten "warm" foes.

Finding nature mages is top priority since you'll need to craft supply items to feed your winged battalions.

Re: Caelum
 

No nation is a "kill all" answer. They all have their pros and cons. A player either decides that nation is one he can play well, or not.

Caelum does well in cold. If he pushes a strong dominion (maybe even with that extra cold-pushing theme) then his troops will often have an advantage in combat. (ok at the moment that needs fixed but it should be mentioned for later readers)

You can fly. I know that seems obvious but I cant believe how many people seem to try Caelum without considering it. Capture the area around your castle to get the admin points. But then pick and choose your provinces. You can jump over strong indeps and hit weak ones. You have flying scouts and can find the enemy quickly in early-game. You can reach them in 3-5 hops and attack them in early game. If you jump all the nasty indeps then to reach you might take a 20 province march of attack you, attack 2 indeps, attack you, attack 2 indeps, etc etc.

You have great "attack the rear" capability. Use indeps for front-line whenever possible.

You have a flying, stealthy, lvl 3 priest! Being able to get there quick, stay hidden, and preach dominion can be very useful.

And there is always the old original Caelum hints although you have to use a wayback machine to see them. Dom1 Caelum guide

Re: Caelum
 

Wauthan and Gandalf, I know I'm not the original poster here but I'd like to say thanks for this info, as I've been very intrigued by Caelum and now am anxious to use their strengths.

Re: Caelum
 

Being able to fly three provinces on the strategic map with most of their troops is absolutely huge. It forces opponents to build defense in depth in their empires, which is incredibly costly and weakens their defense overall. Build a Storm General/15 Blizzard Warrior/10 Spire Horn Warrior force or two and go around capturing weakly held enemy provinces, setting taxes to 200, and immediately skipping off to another province. You'll do severe damage to their economy, not even to mention the morale damage to the player (if human).

While you're having fun in their backfield with the light raiding parties, build an army with about 5-10 Mammoths and double their number in Wingless, with supporting troops, and attack their front line. With the very high morale of the Wingless, your Mammoths won't break very often and will do incredible damage to anything but Giants.

Caelum has an incredible one-two punch capability just with their troops - this is ignoring their cheap and powerful 3A mages who can cast a number of nasty, evil rituals and battleground spells.

Re: Caelum
 

As my question somehow fits into this thread: How do I kill Caelum with Vanheim? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

(Vanheim -no Archers seems to be a bit of a problem. And the map is small -Targas 2-player-, so very long-term strategies are irrelevant.)

Re: Caelum
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Well, what Caelum attempts with mobility, you could attempt with stealth. Vans are highly stealthy, and formidable units. Odds are pretty good that small raiding parties can easily penetrate enemy lines and start burning down all of your opponent's temples and disrupting his supply lines. as well. Over level ground, Vans move plenty fast, and on the coast, their mobility is comparable and sometimes even superior to that of Caelum's fliers. A lurking Vanherse or Vanjarl is likely to be able to easily retake anything Caelum takes once they move on, even if they jack the province defense. Van commanders are formidable fighters.

If you can apply as much annoyance and pain to your opponent as he can to you, you'll be able to hold your own there.

Re: Caelum
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Appreciated as good advice, but Hit-and-Run is 180 from my playstyle, which is *ATTRITION*.

I believe attrition should work, because most of mine are cheaper than most of his, but there is one problem, so I rephrase:

I need a Vanheim battlefield tactic against Caelum´s bows. Everything else I´m unafraid of.

Is there a spell that simply stops bows from firing? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif Or anything that comes close?

Re: Caelum
 

There are lots of spells that protect your troops from missile weapons, though some of them are slightly high level. Storm (air 4, evocation 5) calls a storm that ruins bows, Mist (air 3, evocation 3) lowers range on all bows and spells, a bunch of defensive spells in Alteration, Arrow Fend (air 3, Enchantment 6)... plus there are several magic items that protect commanders.

Also, any troops with shields are much more survivable against arrows. Troops with tower shields are almost impossible to kill with archers. You might try buying some heavy infantry to use as fodder for your einheres and skinshifters.

Re: Caelum
 

Mist (Evocation 3) could be what we need. If he relies on Archers, this should prove frustrating. But I need a Vanadrott to cast it. Hmmmmm. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

Re: Caelum
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Or perhaps rely heavily on Hirdmen. Round shield/Prot 15 looks good. And they aren´t that expensive, just slow to build.

Re: Caelum
 

Also, Bow Mercenaries, and any Bows I can find a place to build somewhere, will be a must.

All this taken together, I may muddle through somehow. Still, I don´t like this weakness in my arsenal. Usually *I* am the one who kills from a distance (Man/Marignon!). http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif

Re: Caelum
 

Of course I could also do some Flying myself http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif , and let my Valkyries "attack Archers". But that may prove expensive.

Still surprised that there is no obvious anti-bow tactic for Vanheim. That they miss *both* Cavalry(*) *and* ranged units makes them a bit one-sided, no? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

Edit: (*)except for the Van, obviously, but their price is somewhat of a slight deterrent to a strategy of attrition. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

[ February 15, 2004, 01:09: Message edited by: Coffeedragon ]

Re: Caelum
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Precisely why you should adopt it. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

If it happens to be a neat 180 from your playstyle, then it happens to also be the perfect complement your playstyle: Combine an attrition assault with hit-and-run disruption, and you'll roll through your opponent. If you want to fight a province-by-province war, Vanheim is perhaps not the nation for you: pure frontal assault is not what Vanheim excels at.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Arrow Fend will render enemy archery completely ineffective against you. The Staff of Storms should cripple any attempt at missile fire and flying by anyone other than the Storm Guards. Storm is similar, but only reduces shooting accuracy. Perpetual Storm will kill flying AND shooting, but will also remove your sailing ability.

And Vanheim is missing cavalry? Those Vans sure look like they're on horses to me. They're pretty impressively mean cavalry, too, if you have a mean bless effect to back them up. At $70, "cheap" is not quite the word I'd use to describe them, though. However, they ARE sacred, so upkeep is significantly reduced.

Re: Caelum
 

I've had a good deal of success using Air magic against Caelum. Archers supported with suitable anti-missile protection generally outLast the frailer Caelum units, although they need a good infantry line to protect them from Mammoths.

Re: Caelum
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I think so; only problem is that Vanheim doesn´t have any archers. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

Re: Caelum
 

Indy shortbowmen are one of the most common units though, and don't require many resources to build, so you can usually get as many as you want.

PvK

Re: Caelum
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Right; though I usually dislike building non-fortress units; slow and messy.

Re: Caelum
 

Ok, I have decided on a strategy. It´s a pretty original one, I think.

I am collecting notes for an AAR. (1v1 human player on Targa´s small map)

You´ll get the AAR only after the game, of course, because, for now, all is secret. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Caelum
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Well, you could always PUT a fortress there. Then it wouldn't be so slow and messy!

Re: Caelum
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Well, you could always PUT a fortress there. Then it wouldn't be so slow and messy! </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">True.

Otoh, High Admin Fortresses are expensive. And I don´t think Low Admin Fortresses work well with Vanheim.

On the third hand http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif , my strategy is going to mostly work around all this. I think I´ve discovered a way to play even Vanheim acording to my usual Grind-them-down style. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif