Yes, of course it\'s been asked before, but...
 

Since I'm pretty sure players' opinions change with the cycles of the moon or somesuch, what three themes or base set-ups do you currently perceive as the hardest to triumph with vs non-Ermorian/Atlantean/R'lyehian AIs?

~Aldin

Re: Yes, of course it\'s been asked before, but...
 

Hmm. I'd probably say that the mandatory turmoil themes, particularly in quantity, are likely the hardest: Tien Chi BK, Tien Chi S&A.

The other noteworthy hard theme is probably Carrion Woods Pangaea, a much maligned theme noted for both its reliance on capitol-only living troops....it's killer dominion....and its completely useless growth scale in light of the above.

Re: Yes, of course it\'s been asked before, but...
 

Never considered it. Hag with dominion 1, no magic skills, all negative scales, and er... someone who likes heat or cold, with the opposite heat/cold scales, maybe. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

PvK

Re: Yes, of course it\'s been asked before, but...
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">You missed 0 point castle http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Thanks for the useful input Norfleet http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

~Aldin

Re: Yes, of course it\'s been asked before, but...
 

Well, PvK's option is obviously into the "perversity" level of difficulty. I sort of expected that you wanted something that was actually meant to be played, though, and would attempt to pick a pretender choice that was appropriate. If you want something insanely hard, you could try combining PvK's "worst possible god choice" with my "inherently weaker nation/theme combos".

Or just play something like Ashen Empire with 1 dominion and no death magic. Try summoning more units with that!

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Actually, I think you may need more than just 1 dominion. Otherwise, you will have difficulty pushing your highly counterproductive scales. In this case, buying more dominion to enhance your ability to cripple yourself might make the game a bit harder.

[ February 14, 2004, 23:59: Message edited by: Norfleet ]

Re: Yes, of course it\'s been asked before, but...
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">LOL! Ya, good point. That and the zero castle thing. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Seriously though, it can be an interesting challenge when you want to play a situation but know it'll be easy, to just use fewer points or intentionally pick things that seem disadvantageous. It can also lead you to discover alternate tactics which you wouldn't otherwise have considered, which may be useful in some other scenarios.

PvK

Re: Yes, of course it\'s been asked before, but...
 

Giving your Crone a single Astral rank might weaken it some more, too: It won't really let you cast any useful spells, but you can now be magic-duelled....and lose. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

On the other hand, losing your god may actually be a blessing: It's not as if it was doing anything useful, other than spreading your undesirable dominion. Maybe if you had an immortal pretender chassis with no magic, so you wouldn't even be able to easily get killed, one that is weak and useless in combat...

[ February 15, 2004, 17:38: Message edited by: Norfleet ]

Re: Yes, of course it\'s been asked before, but...
 

Mmm, yes, good point. An immobile pretender with death/sloth/misfortune/weather aura stuck on your capital, perhaps, although I don't know of any that come with zero magic.

PvK

Re: Yes, of course it\'s been asked before, but...
 

Oh, I have it. This has to be the most awful thing ever:

Take a crone. Dominion 1. No magic. Take all of the crappy scales.

Be Ermor. Take Ashen Empire. You have no death ranks, so you can never raise any more priests or elders. All of your people will die. You can't produce any normal units. You can't search for sites, because you start with no mages, can't produce any mages, and can't summon any. You're never going to get any national hero ones at misfortune 3. In fact, nothing good will ever happen to you. Your temple and lab will probably be burned down in a random event in a few turns due to turmoil + misfortune. You don't have any priests, so you can't produce a new temple. You don't have any mages, so you can't produce a new lab. On independent-9, your starting army probably won't even succeed in conquering a province.....and the only commander you'll ever have anyway is that starting Censor. At Dominion 1, you're not going to get very many undead spawning to join you.

Now try and win. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ February 16, 2004, 00:22: Message edited by: Norfleet ]

Re: Yes, of course it\'s been asked before, but...
 

Oh gosh, that one cracked me up! Thanks!

Ok, I see a challenge here. Actually sounds fun to try to win that... or, to even get anywhere.

PvK

Re: Yes, of course it\'s been asked before, but...
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Well, the only thing that comes to mind as possible hope is to pillage your home province with your starting forces for as much cash as you can, and trying to hire a necromantic mercenary, empowering him, and having him summon a Dusk Elder. That would get you out of a dead end, but I can't imagine anything else. You sure as hell can't hope a necromancer simply voluntarily JOINS you with Misfortune 3, and you better hope you can get all this done before your lab and temple burn down!

That, or maybe trying to empower your way to death-3 minimum.

[ February 16, 2004, 06:34: Message edited by: Norfleet ]

Re: Yes, of course it\'s been asked before, but...
 

If Ermor didn't have such a large gem income (at default world richness, at least), you'd really be dead. But your Crone will be able to Empower in Death in only a few turns... so if your lab is still there by then, you can actually stand a very slim chance.

If you "cheat" by pitting Weak AIs against Indep 9, maybe you'll even do it...

I'd try, if I didn't find Ermor so boring. Maybe.

Re: Yes, of course it\'s been asked before, but...
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Yeah, but it's still sadistically hard, and you won't be able to do ANYTHING at all for many, many turns. And this is supposed to be sadistically hard. Cheating by using Weak AIs against Independent 9 would be defeating the purpose. You have to play with all impossible AIs on poor richness map with independent 9!

Preferrably with all 17 nations, on my "Horrible 17 Province Test Map".

Okay, so maybe the independent setting is completely irrelevant on a fully loaded 17 province test map.

[ February 16, 2004, 06:37: Message edited by: Norfleet ]

Re: Yes, of course it\'s been asked before, but...
 

Laugh! Well, playing on a 17-province map with 17 nations, with the doom setup, sounds more like a case of playing Russian roulette with a fully loaded gun and hoping it jams.

PvK