TG contest question
 

maybe i should post this to the TG forum, but im not in the contest and only mildly curious about this. since i already know this is a sharp bunch here, i will ask you all:

i didnt notice any regulations on the kind of game for the contest. it it all the same if you use 'no AI' as opposed to 'max AI' with full bonus and high dificulty? is quadrant size factored in? what if someone made a 'small spiral' map with 20 players all of the same planet type each with 10 'very good' planets, saved the map, rinse and repeat so that you have a few number of systems totally packed with perfect planets for you? is a high tech start the same as a low tech start?

I just didnt see many stipulations on the rules page, but maybe i was reading in the wrong area. seems very abuseable.

Re: TG contest question
 

Contest rules, #8.

-Drake

[This message has been edited by Drake (edited 08 February 2001).]

Re: TG contest question
 

okay. my screen ended after 5 and i neglected to scroll down. I saw the bolded address and the acrobat banner and figured it was the end of the page.

nevermind, i never claimed to be very bright. maybe i should edit my earlier post and pretend i asked an intellignet question.

Re: TG contest question
 

Go for it, just don't make my answer look too stupid. http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/ima...ons/icon12.gif

Re: TG contest question
 

Puke I did the exact same thing the first time I read those rules http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif. I am glad I am not the only one. Read my first questains to them in their forum. I didn't bother to scroll down the rules either for some reason I thought the rules ended there also.

[This message has been edited by Tomgs (edited 08 February 2001).]

Re: TG contest question
 

You guys are not alone. http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon9.gif I too stopped at that point.

How many of you are considering entering the contest?

Re: TG contest question
 

Good point, Alasyr. I guess there's nothing stopping you from creating your own valid map. I just assumed that you had to generate it during game creation. Boy, that would have saved me so much time! Imagine how long it took to get a small galaxy with 39 systems and no black holes or nebulae. ARGH! http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/ima...ons/icon12.gif

-Drake

Re: TG contest question
 

I would join if I could find it on the web page. Do you have to join first to have access the the SE IV tourny? Let me know

------------------
Seawolf on the prowl

Re: TG contest question
 

Ok, I just sent my game files for what I thought was going to be my Last entry in the contest. (Ringworlds! http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/shock.gif )

Couple of questions for others entering the contest.

Are you all posting your score as well as sending in your files? I would have thought there would be some higher scores on there by now, verified or not.

Did anyone have trouble sending a single zip file for their game? My Last entry I had to split into two zip files to get it sent. Just wondering if that was my problem or twingalaxies.

Geo


[This message has been edited by geoschmo (edited 08 February 2001).]

Re: TG contest question
 

I just assumed that a loarge number of ppl were not posting their scores so they didn't give a target for others to shoot at. I heard the tournament wasn't getting a lot of hits though, so maybe that isn't the case...

Well, I'll post my score in a little bit, I'm closing in on turn 100. There's much less for me to do now that I've built ringworlds everywhere, and have everything colonized, so I ought to be done soon. Now I just have to make sure I get my max pop bonus on every planet.

[This message has been edited by Drake (edited 08 February 2001).]

Re: TG contest question
 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Seawolf:
I would join if I could find it on the web page. Do you have to join first to have access the the SE IV tourny? Let me know
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You can look at stuff without joining, you just can't submit a score. Click on the Space Empires IV banner in the middle of the main webpage, and on the right hand side of the next page you'll see a link to register.

-Drake

Re: TG contest question
 

If anyone has questions about the TG contest, I'm the liason, you can e-mail me directly at johnz@twingalaxies.com.

We've had four or five scores come in as whole files and two of you sent in scores broken into two files. I've e-mailed from an outside source to the company with multi-meg attachments and had it work just fine so normally I wouldn't think the problem is on our end. Then again, two different people having the same problem makes me wonder.

Seawolf, as far as joining, here's a direct link to the contest page. http://www.twingalaxies.com/cgi-perl...hampionship.pl Notice the instructions in the right-hand column that say "steps to join the contest?" Follow those in order. We are accepting scores on medium and large galaxies too, but only the top scores for small galaxies will get cash. You can post unverified scores for small, med, and large maps and they'll stay up for all time. Also, you can enter any number of scores and we'll keep updating your personal record to reflect your best performance, this isn't a one try deal.

Also, the contest ending doesn't mean that the top score is set in stone, it just means that's the guy who gets the cash. We recently had a 15-year-old record broken (Jr. Pac-Man). The contest is just to generate a score for the game so we have something to print in the second edition of our book of video game world records.

Note that we've got four cash prizes and only three players who seem to be in the 50-million+ score range. Competition for 4th is not very fierce just yet.

------------------
Compete in the Space Empires IV World Championship at www.twingalaxies.com.

[This message has been edited by Nyx (edited 08 February 2001).]

Re: TG contest question
 

Nyx,

We can't post any scores higher than 9,999,999. Any plans on changing that?

Geo

Re: TG contest question
 

Make sure you have room for scores above 99,999,999 also.

Re: TG contest question
 

Hmmm, to expand on what someone else said. What's to prevent you from creating a custom race (say Gas Giant dwelling), creating a new game with 10 planets per player, saving the map, then starting up a contest game? Will the planet types and atmospheres be saved with the map? If so, you could have a huge portion of the galaxy be primary (green) planets.

Re: TG contest question
 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>What's to prevent you <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>...

As the rules stand now, nothing except your own sense of fair play.

The most I have done with relation to maps at this point is regenerate until I get one with enough systems to my liking. I don't even look at what is in the systems.

Not saying that is cheating, just that I haven't done it. (yet) http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/ima...ons/icon12.gif

Re: TG contest question
 

Wilcoxon, technically you can do such a thing. However, I personally scan each game, I do look for things like that. Hell, I've been manually adding up the income from facilities and checking the value against what's listed to make sure the player didn't hex edit something!

As for the score limit, I'll look into that. We had a bug in the database limiting it earlier and I told them to raise it to 99 million and they told me they had. I guess they lied and will have to be loaded onto a transport and dumped into space like rioting populations... Uh er, wait, been playing too much I think. I'll speak to them and get back to you.

------------------
Compete in the Space Empires IV World Championship at www.twingalaxies.com.

--------------

Score update:
According to our database people, the limit is set to 80 million and I personally saw them use our site to enter such a score. I can only assume that people having problems might have been entering scores with commas, and it may be that this confuses our database. Please try again and if you still have problems e-mail me directly and we'll look into it. Thanks for the heads up on the issue.

[This message has been edited by Nyx (edited 08 February 2001).]

Re: TG contest question
 

I was in fact using comma's, 80 mil will do me but your gonna have to bump that up for Drake and Tomgs, laf.

[This message has been edited by geoschmo (edited 08 February 2001).]

Re: TG contest question
 

Nyx,

Thanks for the link and the info but they want too much personal information on me to join. Good luck to all those that play in it.

------------------
Seawolf on the prowl

Re: TG contest question
 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by geoschmo:
I was in fact using comma's, 80 mil will do me but your gonna have to bump that up for Drake and Tomgs, laf.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yep, I'll need more than 80mil. I'm sure I won't get near 200mil, so that should be safe.

-Drake

Re: TG contest question
 

But what would stop someone from creating a small galaxy with 10 planets for each player (all warps connected and other thing from rules), saving that map and start a new game using required config but using a map previosly created.I mean how can you check is map used been created especialy for that game or loaded, it's small, it has all warp points connected, so in every way conditions are forfilled.

Re: TG contest question
 

I dont think this is the right quad type for the contest, but the principal is the same, and this was my first try. doing this should be Banned in the rules. there is nothing to stop someone from doing it with even more planets than this, and whats more, there is nothing to stop someone from value-improving all the planets to 200%, and building SWs around each star, and convert all asteroids to planets, and convert all atmospheres before saving the map.

I dont know how you could really enforce a rule against doing this though, since it would be just as easy to subtily manipulate a map, just by converting a handfull of atmospheres or improving a handfull of planets, you could not really tell.

there is the honor system that people may use, but you can only vouch for your own convictions. you could make one standard map for all entrants to use, but then everyone would play a race perfectly suited to that map and it would not be much of a contest.

The best thing i can come up with is this: every contest applicant sends in their race file, and the contest admin sends back a gamefile made under the proper conditions that the applicant must play. this will allow random quadrants, and eliminate this abuse. to save the admins work, maybe you could generate the map by using the command line Version of the game, i dont know if that is possible. or you could have a '1-game-per-week-per-person' rule.

Re: TG contest question
 

Have you tried to play for score for 150 turns? It takes a long time to get a good score. Somehow I don't think too many people who like to cheat or take shortcuts will finish a game like this. The turns can take over an hour apiece to do at certain points of the game. Yes its posible that people will cheat and take shortcuts but IMO the amount of money is so low and the time invested is so high that its not worth it to cheat. If someone does and dosen't get caught Oh well. I entered this contest to see a different portion of the game and did I ever. You see the game in a completely different light when you play for score. Most of the game is solo because the AI gets no bonus and its a small quadrant so its all colonized fairly fast too.

Yes your right there are many ways to cheat in this game because its so modifiable. And many of those ways are very hard to detect unless you really overdo it. I know they will watch for flagrent cheats and somehow I don't think too many people will succeed in the micromanagement this type of game requires if they like to take shortcuts.

Really come on now This is my 5th game and all but one of them had to be restarted because of new cheats or shortcommings in the game that were being learned as time went on. Enough is enough I will not start another game so if the rules change again I will not be among the entrants. I have played three of the games past 100 turns now that is a bit much. Yes there are hundreds of cheats still possible out there that haven't been mentioned yet do we have to start a new game every time someone comes up with another possible cheat?

[This message has been edited by Tomgs (edited 09 February 2001).]

Re: TG contest question
 

Well, map created with 10 HW is very very detactable because it produces number of systems with 7-8 green big worlds out of 15-20 planents total in system.

Re: TG contest question
 

Has anyone considered building remote minning starbases (the bigest ones, 24 miners) on tiny worlds after maximazing their values and timing the build so it would finishes at turn 149, then abandoning the colony.I think one can get at 5000kt of resources more then using 4 monolith III and one Robotic Factory on that world (system robotic factory bonus included for monoliths).

Re: TG contest question
 

I took a look at it earlier this week and determined it wasn't cost effective for my race. Even a tiny world with (5 Monoliths IIIs) * (the pop bonus of 5% + 20% race bonus + 20% happiness) * 1.3 (robotoid facility) * 1.3 (system robotoid) comes out to be more than the remote mining value.

Mainly it's because the remote mining doesn't get a single one of the bonuses at all, from what my testing showed me. Not even at the system level.

You don't even need to time the build for turn 149, just keep it in place and abandon the planet on turn 150. It's also the only way I can think of where your score could go up during a turn, as opposed to between turns.

Good thinking btw, that's the sort of thing you need to be trying out when in a contest like this. http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/ima...ons/icon12.gif
-Drake

[This message has been edited by Drake (edited 09 February 2001).]

Re: TG contest question
 

Very creative thinking Alasyr. Even if Drake is correct and it doesn't work out, that's the way to push the envelope.

I think the next patch is going to make that more difficult to do though. According to ColdSteel one of the fixes will be to not allow abandoning planets above a certain pop threshold. I guess you could have two starbases, one with miners and one with cargo storage for the pop, but it seems like a lot of work.

Drake, I confirmed what you said about the +5% production bonus for culture not working. Has that been sent to MM?

Re: TG contest question
 

Nope, been procrastinating. I'll go ahead and do that now.

-Drake

Re: TG contest question
 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Thanks for the link and the info but they want too much personal information on me to join. Good luck to all those that play in it.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I agree with you 100% on this one. I've been telling the company not to ask for anything but a confirmable e-mail account and a desired username, but they say, "Well everyone else asks for all this stuff and it gives us valuable demographic data" and then they wonder why more people aren't willing to sign up. Not much that I can do about that, sorry.

------------------
Compete in the Space Empires IV World Championship at www.twingalaxies.com.

Re: TG contest question
 

Tomgs, I wouldn't be too concerned about it. If they decide to ban the kind of map manip that Puke is talking about, it won't affect your games since you aren't doing that.

I agree with your point abuot the stakes being so low and the game taking so long that it is unlikely anyone would attempt it anyway.

Puke, Nyx has stated that he will be goiing over every game personnaly. I am sure there is somthing in the fine print legal mumbo jumbo aboout reserving the right to refuse any submission not deemed to be fair, blah, blah, blah.

I hope you aren't letting the possibility that someone might try it keep you from getting into the contest and having fun with it.

Yes, the kind of thing you are talking about could be done. But IMHO, if it were done to the point where it made a diff, then it would be obvious. And if it were done subtly, where it was not detectable, then it wouldn't make that much difference.

But thank you for pointing it out. Don't confuse our lack of concern with a lack of caring. I think some of us who have been in this thing from the begining are just getting a little burnt out at all the restarts.

Re: TG contest question
 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by geoschmo:
I think the next patch is going to make that more difficult to do though. According to ColdSteel one of the fixes will be to not allow abandoning planets above a certain pop threshold.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think if you abandon a planet, it should be taken over by a 'rebel' faction with your race settings, like when a planet actually rebells. Either that, or you have to have enough transports in place with space enough to take the population away.

I mean, I like being the absolute dictator & everything, but I'd like my people to have a little more spine when I tell them to commit mass-suicide, geez. http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/ima...ons/icon12.gif

I also think spacing your population should affect happiness in a negative way. Hmmm. Although if you're bloodthirsty, maybe the ppl you spaced just weren't well liked, in which case the rest of your people love you all the more, heh.

-Drake

Re: TG contest question
 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Drake:
Yep, I'll need more than 80mil. I'm sure I won't get near 200mil, so that should be safe.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ok, I lied. 400 million should probably be the limit. http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/ima...ons/icon12.gif

-Drake (who is in need of a serious vacation after this Last week of playing.)